Wii Virtual Console games cheap.... if you like lattes

[|darc|]

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs. ... /11/5/5859

While he does have a point about the whole double-standard thing, overspending on lattes is a common joke about people who overspend. Relating VC games to overspending on lattes pretty much equates the VC with overspending IMO.

[Lartrak]

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs. ... /11/5/5859

While he does have a point about the whole double-standard thing, overspending on lattes is a common joke about people who overspend. Relating VC games to overspending on lattes pretty much equates the VC with overspending IMO.

I completely agree. I really think they should give you VC points for every game purchased. Say 250, so if you bought two games at launch you get one free VC NES title.

[melancholy]

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

[Juan]

I think the reason is that it doesn't seem to bring any extras other than game manuals, but does anyone if it'll have online gaming and other enhancements? Because the games in Live have many, and I think the prices are about the same.

[ace]

I thought this topic was going to be about getting VC points for buying Starbucks

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

You can buy NES carts for $5 or less.

[melancholy]

I thought this topic was going to be about getting VC points for buying Starbucks

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

You can buy NES carts for $5 or less.

True, but that would depend on if:

A. You still have a working Nintendo
2. You still have it hooked up to the television

The people that will be most interested in the VC will probably answer no to one of those questions. Plus the fact that the VC will run more than just NES games, meaning their Wii will be the only thing necessary to run multiple old consoles.

[APE]

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

I think it's the fact Nintendo made lots of profit off the old games and had to pay for costs on things such as packaging and the actual cart. Now they're selling a rom (costs nothing because the game already exists) over the internet (dirt cheap because the largest n64 rom was 64mb and from a quick googling of warez info you can store the entire NES, SNES, GB, GBA, N64 rom sets on a 320gb hdd without issue and because bandwidth=cheap).

These games have either been released to death like the Zelda and Mario series or have very little additiona exposure like Kirby and F-Zero. The older SNES RPGs that cost an arm and a leg will definately be worth the cost. Games like MegaMan X2/3 are very expensive on ebay but are now available on the Mega Man X collection.

To reiterate: Nintendo has made a shitload of profit years ago and over and over again thus their sense of entitlement isn't deserved.

[gamedudex2]

they need to do a $15 a month subscription service as an option

[melancholy]

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

I think it's the fact Nintendo made lots of profit off the old games and had to pay for costs on things such as packaging and the actual cart. Now they're selling a rom (costs nothing because the game already exists) over the internet (dirt cheap because the largest n64 rom was 64mb and from a quick googling of warez info you can store the entire NES, SNES, GB, GBA, N64 rom sets on a 320gb hdd without issue and because bandwidth=cheap).

These games have either been released to death like the Zelda and Mario series or have very little additiona exposure like Kirby and F-Zero. The older SNES RPGs that cost an arm and a leg will definately be worth the cost. Games like MegaMan X2/3 are very expensive on ebay but are now available on the Mega Man X collection.

To reiterate: Nintendo has made a shitload of profit years ago and over and over again thus their sense of entitlement isn't deserved.

Maybe, but that would depend on how many people are actually willing to buy these games. If the VC is a huge success, then it means there is still a market for the games. But if the market was truly saturated, then the VC would fall through and Nintendo would have to rethink their strategy.

Another point to consider is that Nintendo is going after a different market; the older generation. Some of these people played a Nintendo a long time ago but have since never touched a video game. So to them, $5 is nothing because they get a chance to play games they haven't seen in a while. My mom use to play Super Mario Bros, but never played video games since. So if on the off chance she would acquire a Wii (probably for the grandkids), and she got a offer to play the original SMB, then she would probably be thrilled.

Anyway, this whole thing seems pretty stupid to us because we are gamers. We debate these things and keep up with everything going on. But Nintendo isn't stupid. They are going after the non-gamers, and although releasing a few old Nintendo games at $5 a pop seems ridiculous to us, it probably won't seem so with the crowd Nintendo is targeting.

[butters]

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

I think it's the fact Nintendo made lots of profit off the old games and had to pay for costs on things such as packaging and the actual cart. Now they're selling a rom (costs nothing because the game already exists) over the internet (dirt cheap because the largest n64 rom was 64mb and from a quick googling of warez info you can store the entire NES, SNES, GB, GBA, N64 rom sets on a 320gb hdd without issue and because bandwidth=cheap).

These games have either been released to death like the Zelda and Mario series or have very little additiona exposure like Kirby and F-Zero. The older SNES RPGs that cost an arm and a leg will definately be worth the cost. Games like MegaMan X2/3 are very expensive on ebay but are now available on the Mega Man X collection.

To reiterate: Nintendo has made a shitload of profit years ago and over and over again thus their sense of entitlement isn't deserved.

Maybe, but that would depend on how many people are actually willing to buy these games. If the VC is a huge success, then it means there is still a market for the games. But if the market was truly saturated, then the VC would fall through and Nintendo would have to rethink their strategy.

Another point to consider is that Nintendo is going after a different market; the older generation. Some of these people played a Nintendo a long time ago but have since never touched a video game. So to them, $5 is nothing because they get a chance to play games they haven't seen in a while. My mom use to play Super Mario Bros, but never played video games since. So if on the off chance she would acquire a Wii (probably for the grandkids), and she got a offer to play the original SMB, then she would probably be thrilled.

Anyway, this whole thing seems pretty stupid to us because we are gamers. We debate these things and keep up with everything going on. But Nintendo isn't stupid. They are going after the non-gamers, and although releasing a few old Nintendo games at $5 a pop seems ridiculous to us, it probably won't seem so with the crowd Nintendo is targeting.

I'm willing to pay $5 for Zelda and Mario 3. They are supposed to have scanned versions of the original instruction booklets from what I've read. I'm really hoping they have the map that came with Zelda.

[Veggita2099]

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

I disagree, you can buy hard copies of the games cheaper then $5. These are games Nintendo has allready made lots of profit on. There are very few games on the NES that are worth paying $5, espeically when they are digital downloads. And so far most of the NES games they are offering are really not far above Atari 2600 games in quality as they are first gen games. In fact some of them are the same games they released for the e-reader for $5. When you paid $5 you actually got a package and the cards which cost them money.

Other then rare games it is overpriced. Legend of Zelda would be the only one I have seen actually worth paying $5 for. Only real reason I say that is because the NES carts of the first zelda usually have no battery left for save support.

[melancholy]

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

I disagree, you can buy hard copies of the games cheaper then $5. These are games Nintendo has allready made lots of profit on. There are very few games on the NES that are worth paying $5, espeically when they are digital downloads. And so far most of the NES games they are offering are really not far above Atari 2600 games in quality as they are first gen games. In fact some of them are the same games they released for the e-reader for $5. When you paid $5 you actually got a package and the cards which cost them money.

Other then rare games it is overpriced. Legend of Zelda would be the only one I have seen actually worth paying $5 for. Only real reason I say that is because the NES carts of the first zelda usually have no battery left for save support.

Heh, I take it you didn't read the rest of the thread. I already responded to the points you pretty much stated here.

[Wagh]

I thought this topic was going to be about getting VC points for buying Starbucks

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

You can buy NES carts for $5 or less.

True, but that would depend on if:

A. You still have a working Nintendo
2. You still have it hooked up to the television

The people that will be most interested in the VC will probably answer no to one of those questions. Plus the fact that the VC will run more than just NES games, meaning their Wii will be the only thing necessary to run multiple old consoles.

I'm not seeing it. Sure that may work for a few purchases. But the people who want to get these games en mass just wont. Not worth it.

[melancholy]

I thought this topic was going to be about getting VC points for buying Starbucks

I think the reason anyone gets so hung up on the price is because we are all used to getting them free nowadays through emulation. If it was impossible to emulate games, $5 for an NES game would seem alright, especially in comparison to the re-releases they did on the GBA. But we live in a world where emulation is mainstream and most consoles have the ability to be modded to play emus. Hell, we get the occasional person coming onto the forums complaining they can't fit their 10,000 NES roms on a CD.

You can buy NES carts for $5 or less.

True, but that would depend on if:

A. You still have a working Nintendo
2. You still have it hooked up to the television

The people that will be most interested in the VC will probably answer no to one of those questions. Plus the fact that the VC will run more than just NES games, meaning their Wii will be the only thing necessary to run multiple old consoles.

I'm not seeing it. Sure that may work for a few purchases. But the people who want to get these games en mass just wont. Not worth it.

No, probably not. I doubt anyone would want to rebuild a game collection on the VC. I imagine most people will have a couple of classics on the system just to keep around.

[mankrip]

I doubt anyone would want to rebuild a game collection on the VC.

I would . I have Doom 64, Killer Instinct Gold and Turok 2. I also have Turok 2 original for PC, so it's the only one I don't need to get on the VC. I'd also like to get the games I owned in the past: Mario 64, ISSS64, and Duke Nukem 64 (which is great for multiplayer). It would be nice to have my whole collection in the Wii.

[Covar]

I disagree, you can buy hard copies of the games cheaper then $5. These are games Nintendo has already made lots of profit on.

so because nintendo already made a profit on the games they should offer them for free? thats the most ridiculous argument i've heard about the vc prices. you know what? after the first year nintendo should start selling the wii at cost since they've already made a profit off it, and i deserve to only have to pay cost on the console.

[Phantom]

In my opinion the main problem with the Wii is that it's overpriced for their intended target audience. In europe it'll cost about $315, which isn't something you casually pick up while grocery shopping.

I think Microsoft will drop the price of the 360 core package to the price of the Wii. And the Wii obviously can't match the 360 game library yet, so I expect a rough holiday season for Nintendo unless they lower their prices.

[|darc|]

I do agree; the $250 price tag here is too much. I'd probably be getting it at launch if it was priced at $200, but at $250 I might be waiting a bit so that I can get more money.

[DaMadFiddler]

This article from Ars Technica sums up perfectly how I feel about the Virtual Console games at this point:

A Game Informer interview with Perrin Kaplan, Nintendo of America's Vice President of Marketing and Corporate Affairs, has been floating around the web for a few days. A passage quoted by the Opposable Thumbs coverage of the interview struck me as the most interesting. I'm going to re-quote it here to save you a click. (You're welcome.)

Game Informer: As far as Virtual Console pricing how it breaks down in Europe, Japan, and here, it seems most expensive in the U.S. when you check exchange rates?

Kaplan: Do you drink lattes?

GI: Yeah.

Kaplan: How much do you spend on lattes?

GI: I spend a lot.

Kaplan: There you go. This is something that lasts forever. I think it depends on what you value. I mean, you're getting something that literally helped raise you as kid. I bet you can spend ten bucks, five bucks, eight bucks, twenty bucks. I'm just trying to get a point of comparison. We actually think that the price is definitely a mass consumer price. It allows people to purchase multiple games, and they can purchase them at the rate that is comfortable for them, is financially feasible for them.

There have been a lot of different responses to this exchange posted online. (Read the full OT post for one example.) But so far, I haven't read any that have echoed my immediate reaction: Wait a second?don't I already own these games?

Seriously, think about it. Kaplan comes right out and admits that buyers of virtual console games probably already purchased these games; they "helped raise you as kid." Now, obviously, if your mom threw them in the trash when you were away at college or something (c.f., classic Star Wars toys), then yes, you have to purchase them again. But what if, like me, you have some of these actual game cartridges sitting in your house right now? What is that $10 for Mario 64 buying me that I don't already own? Let's go through some possible answers.

*

I'm buying the ability to play the game on a new platform. If this were the case, I'd be buying exactly that: the ability to play the game on a new platform. In other words, I'd be buying the emulator software for each platform (NES, SNES, N64, etc.) plus some device to transfer the cartridge ROMs that I already own. I'd be fine with that. Those are all valuable things that I do not already own.

But that's not how it works. Instead, Nintendo is bundling the emulators for free, and then charging per game. Paying for each game may actually be cheaper, depending on how many games I plan to buy, but that doesn't make it appropriate.
*

I'm buying the game in a new format. This notion is probably the reason so few people seem to mind. We've been trained to accept the re-purchasing of the same media by the march of ever-increasing (or, more lately, decreasing; see iTunes) fidelity. How many people have purchased the same album on vinyl (I feel old linking that; whippersnappers!), cassette tape, and CD, or the same movie on VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, and (soon) HD-DVD/Blu Ray?

But all of those purchases are not really for the "same" media. In each case, the information itself has changed?usually for the better. This is not the case with virtual console games, which will be identical in every possible way: no improved graphics or sound, no change in fidelity.
*

I'm buying the right to time/place-shift something I already own. This entire concept disgusts me. If I own it (e.g., a DVD movie) I should be able to watch it wherever and however I want to, as long as it's for personal use. I should be able to encode that DVD and watch it on a portable device. I should be able to rip any CD I own and put copies of the songs on my iPod. I should not have to pay extra for these things. Paying for the devices and software that give me the ability to do these things is fine (see earlier point); paying for the "right" to do them is not.

Again, I don't expect to be given a free copy of something, even something digital, just because I purchased it in the past. If damage or loss happens, that's all on me. But if I've purchased it and I still have it and it still works perfectly, I find it galling to have to pay for it again. Let me reiterate: I don't find it galling to have to pay, it's what I'm paying for that bothers me.

This all probably seems pretty academic. No one's twisting my arm to buy virtual console games. If I don't like what's offered, I don't have to buy it. It's the free market at work, right? But I'm still troubled by how few people seem to even notice what's going on here, regardless of whether or not they're bothered by it. The more accepting consumers (and gamers in particular) are of being charged for the "wrong" things, the more media producers will take advantage of them.

Granted, the virtual console situation is relatively small potatoes. I suspect very few gamers still own working copies of all these old games, plus the old consoles themselves to play them on?maybe so few that it's a market that's not worth addressing. But this all connects back to the larger issue. There are things people really want to buy, but that few are willing to sell.

In gaming, for example, there has long been a hot market for emulation. Just look at MAME and the dozens of console emulators produced over the past decade or so. Gamers want to play old games. I'm sure most would do so legally if some rights-holders would step up to the plate and actually offer a way to do so. That may seem like what Nintendo is doing with the virtual console, but in cases like my own, there's a subtle disconnect between what consumers want and what's actually being sold.

I'm not calling for a boycott or anything foolish like that. At least Nintendo is doing something to address the market for emulation. But I think gamers should be aware of what they're paying for, and the precedent it might set for the future.

Let's look again at Kaplan's statement about the value of a virtual console game:

Kaplan: This is something that lasts forever.

"Forever," eh? Ask yourselves, gamers, do you really believe that? How many more times do you think Nintendo will ask us if we're willing to re-purchase Mario 64? How many more times will we say yes?

[atf487]

People need to realize that digital distribution is about making it cheaper for the company, not the consumer.

And I think they messed up the variable pricing a little bit. 10 dollars for an N64 games is a good deal, and 8 dollars for a snes game (especially an RPG like Final Fantasy, or something) is pretty good, also. But, few NES games are worth 5 dollars.