Dreamcast Site Backups + TakoTako is Back!

[Senk]

So, I've got a nice collection of Dreamcast website backups going that I'm uploading to my own site. I'll provide archived tar.gz files if anyone wants one. These are by no means meant to replace existing websites. They're more for a preemptive archive in the chance that some of these websites disappear (such as what happened with takotako). I'm not really sure where to put this; so, I put it in the general discussion section.

My Backups of (2012 05 04):
http://senkbeil.no-ip.org/backups/mc.pp.se-dc/
--> Of http://mc.pp.se/dc/

http://senkbeil.no-ip.org/backups/takotako/
--> Of http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/ and nabbed from http://jj1odm.qp.land.to

http://senkbeil.no-ip.org/backups/yam.20to4.net/
--> Of http://yam.20to4.net/

If any of the owners of these websites wish for the mirrors to be taken down, I'll do so. I believe that most of these sites have been abandoned as updates haven't been seen in a few years, but I could be wrong.

[EDIT]
True to my word, I've removed some of the links and will be (in the near future) removing the backups from my website.

[DARKHALO2K]

I'd be grateful if you could provide us with an achived download.

Thanks for going to the effort of backing up each of these sites!

[Senk]

Yeah, sure. I'm constructing my own Dreamcast section that'll include this, but I'll put the direct links up here as well. Hopefully it'll be a little more updated with regard to information compared to some of the current sites, although it won't be nearly as in depth. Updated on the main page.

[|darc|]

Thanks for your efforts. We have a mirrors section on our site but it hasn't been maintained much. In the last few days I have attempted to look up some DC information and the amount of sites that have gone down is pretty sad.

[Maturion]

Thanks for your efforts. We have a mirrors section on our site but it hasn't been maintained much. In the last few days I have attempted to look up some DC information and the amount of sites that have gone down is pretty sad.

We should really change that and make archives.dcemulation.org browseable for anyone.

[DCDayDreamer]

I have reservations when it comes to just blindly putting all archived sites back online.

What we have to remember is that the homebrew releases themselves were put into the Public Domain by the owners of the sites or the contributors to the sites, the same could be said about the information about the releases, but other content within the site: the site layout and core structure itself may still be considered under copyright. I do not think it is the correct way to do things when someone simply archives an entire web site and then hosts it elsewhere without first obtaining permission from the site owner/s, even Archive.org has the option for the robots.txt which is there as a preventative measure.

Would it really be too much trouble to at least try and track down the old site owners to get permission to re-host an archive of their content? if you found them they might even assist you and provide a 'complete' archive with some missing fragments that were once thought to be long gone, who knows? they might even throw in some things that were never released.

Just think about this for a minute:
If you dabbled with software development on a game console and created a homebrew release, then suddenly a fan of that console contacted you ten years later enquiring about that homebrew release, what would you do? the same principle could also apply to site owners that many years ago spent their time supporting the very same console.

At the end of the day, everyone likes to be appreciated .

[Senk]

Thanks for your efforts. We have a mirrors section on our site but it hasn't been maintained much. In the last few days I have attempted to look up some DC information and the amount of sites that have gone down is pretty sad.

Good to know and, yes, it is depressing to see so much information lost. If you want to transfer this thread to point to that archive, feel free to edit my post (or I can do it myself) to change to dcemulation's archive.

I have reservations when it comes to just blindly putting all archived sites back online.

What we have to remember is that the homebrew releases themselves were put into the Public Domain by the owners of the sites or the contributors to the sites, the same could be said about the information about the releases, but other content within the site: the site layout and core structure itself may still be considered under copyright. I do not think it is the correct way to do things when someone simply archives an entire web site and then hosts it elsewhere without first obtaining permission from the site owner/s, even Archive.org has the option for the robots.txt which is there as a preventative measure.

Would it really be too much trouble to at least try and track down the old site owners to get permission to re-host an archive of their content? if you found them they might even assist you and provide a 'complete' archive with some missing fragments that were once thought to be long gone, who knows? they might even throw in some things that were never released.

Just think about this for a minute:
If you dabbled with software development on a game console and created a homebrew release, then suddenly a fan of that console contacted you ten years later enquiring about that homebrew release, what would you do? the same principle could also apply to site owners that many years ago spent their time supporting the very same console.

At the end of the day, everyone likes to be appreciated .

I agree with what you've said, but I would like to make a few comments. Keep in mind, my backups were supposed to be of the website information (pages written with helpful documentation). The software I used can be stopped by robots.txt just like Archive.org. I attempted to contact some of the site owners, but got failure responses or nothing (so far, anyway). I see nothing wrong with keeping a backup for myself and if the owner does want the backup taken down I've already stated here (and in the emails) that I'll do so. I felt these websites was falling into a public domain as most haven't been updated since the mid 2000's or earlier (granted, it's a fictional public domain, not a legal one). As for the site layouts and such, if that causes a serious issue, I'll remove them; however, the majority of the websites do not mention any copyright statements (I've noticed mc.pp.se/dc has some sort of "powered by" disclaimer). I'd also like to mention that I'm taking down boob.co.uk as I didn't receive a reply and there is a block of text saying "do not redistribute without permission." It feels like a crime that a website with documentation like that limits spreading itself when a backup is just that, a backup. No one claims ownership and all of the proper redirects and credits are still in place.

Of course, while I respect this standpoint, I've always felt it to be silly. With my own work, I've always opened it up to the public and, with regard to documents, have never found any issue with distributing them as I wrote them to be seen. Then again, there are a variety of reasons as to why someone would not want the material to be public. As the situation stands, I'm leaving MOST of these mirrors up with the main links next to them until I am contacted by the owners. I'm more afraid of the websites disappearing like they have just this past month and me not being able to learn a little more.

[EDIT]
And as I finished writing this, I got contacted to remove a link.

[DCDayDreamer]

I agree with what you've said, but I would like to make a few comments. Keep in mind, my backups were supposed to be of the website information (pages written with helpful documentation).

I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for your efforts I truly commend you. There's nothing wrong in making a backup (in my opinion anyway) of a site but making that backup available publicly is an entirely different matter.

I attempted to contact some of the site owners, but got failure responses or nothing (so far, anyway).

Many do not check email messages from old addresses regularly, give them a chance to respond, search around to see if they use other nicknames on other sites, in the current climate they may have numerous contact addresses.

I see nothing wrong with keeping a backup for myself and if the owner does want the backup taken down I've already stated here (and in the emails) that I'll do so.

There is nothing wrong with keeping a backup for yourself but by making the backup available for download it is no longer a personal backup. A simple line of text within a forum post is not quite what is required, and as I've mentioned above: "Many do not check email messages from old addresses regularly", many would disregard such trivial things but some may view things differently.

I felt these websites was falling into a public domain as most haven't been updated since the mid 2000's or earlier (granted, it's a fictional public domain, not a legal one). As for the site layouts and such, if that causes a serious issue, I'll remove them; however, the majority of the websites do not mention any copyright statements (I've noticed mc.pp.se/dc has some sort of "powered by" disclaimer).

It is a common misconception that once something hasn't been updated for some time it is no longer covered by copyright and has fallen within the Public Domain. The legalities of copyright with all its variants are a complete and utter nightmare but as a simple guideline: unless a site states categorically that its entire content is within the Public Domain (more recently many sites use a derivative of Creative Commons) it would be advisable to not archive its entire content and re-distribute it without permission. Many sites have a 'Terms of Use' but fan sites generally do not have these links, the common courtesy of asking permission is deemed as the appropriate minimum when creating a mirror of an entire site. However, any files made available for download from sites are practically in the Public Domain but check the 'Terms of Use' (if there are any) and check for any documentation within the download (if its software there may be license restrictions).

I'd also like to mention that I'm taking down boob.co.uk as I didn't receive a reply and there is a block of text saying "do not redistribute without permission." It feels like a crime that a website with documentation like that limits spreading itself when a backup is just that, a backup. No one claims ownership and all of the proper redirects and credits are still in place.

The block of text that states "do not redistribute without permission." is exactly what I am trying to clarify to you - Go to the boob.co.uk homepage and look at the complete disclaimer:
"The information in this document is Copyright © by B00B! Dreamcast Research and may not be reproduced in whole or part without permission."
You need to obtain permission before you release an archive of that site. Having said that, the disclaimer is not entirely correct because under Fair Use policies you can use 'samples' of information contained within any page of that site (but credit the source of information), you can also use and re-distribute almost ALL Dreamcast homebrew files available for download from there. As I mentioned above, you would need to check any downloads for license restrictions etc. also be aware that there are WinCE files distributed from there, the WinCE files available are in fact unauthorized, they are arguably 'Fair Use' but nevertheless they are unauthorized.

Of course, while I respect this standpoint, I've always felt it to be silly.

I couldn't agree with you more but everyone has a right to their own opinion and standpoint when it comes to putting their work online.

With my own work, I've always opened it up to the public and, with regard to documents, have never found any issue with distributing them as I wrote them to be seen.

What you are saying is you are happy with your work entering the Public Domain, that is your choice and there is nothing wrong it, but consider that others have a choice too.

Then again, there are a variety of reasons as to why someone would not want the material to be public.

If the persons you are referring to did not want their material available to the public they would never publish it on a site to begin with, there may however be a limit as to what some people will allow to be re-published.

As the situation stands, I'm leaving MOST of these mirrors up with the main links next to them until I am contacted by the owners. I'm more afraid of the websites disappearing like they have just this past month and me not being able to learn a little more.

That is your choice but keep trying to contact the owners of the sites and tell them what you are doing.

[EDIT]
And as I finished writing this, I got contacted to remove a link.

I'm guessing that was someone from boob.co.uk, don't forget the site is still online and you still have your personal archive so the website information hasn't exactly been lost.