Commodore 64

The Mik · Post by **The Mik** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:24 pm

Well I had a Tandy Color Computer 2. It had cartridge games, we had math, dragonfire (I think it was called) and megabug (pacman type game). Did my first programming on it, good old basic.

My dad had even went all out and got the 1.78 mhz in it.

If I remember right the 64 was released in Fall 82, and the tandy in 83 could be wrong though. That was a couple years before the nintendo, was that released in 85 or 86?

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:14 am

Yeah C64 had carts as well quiet a few. And it Was released quiet a bit before the nes. Spectrum was the poor-mans 8 bit computer at the time and the c64 which cost a lot then still outsold it.

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:31 am

MetaFox wrote:
as well as games that spawned entire genres (Mario 64, Mario Kart, Duck Hunt, Mach Racer, Metroid etc) - and all thats just off the top of my head.
We are comparing the Commodore 64 to the NES not Nintendo as a whole. Out of that list only Mario 64 and Mario Kart were really innovations from what was available before - and they were first on the Nintendo 64 and SNES respectively. Metroid was a good game, but it wasn't the first side scrolling walk, jump, and shoot game. (there were many games of this genre on Commodore 64 and other computer systems before Metroid even came out) Also, Duck Hunt wasn't the first lightgun game, and Mach Racer wasn't the first racing game of it's kind.

Metroid was the first game that had a large playing field that was only accessible via various 'powerups' - its clearly a precursor to games like Castlevania:SOTN and the 3D zeldas for example.

Mach Racer was I believe the first 'combat' racing game - previous examples like checkered flag and pole position were 'straight' driving games, and the only similar combat racing game I can think of on the 8 bit computers was... outlander?

EDIT: alos of course I think it is fair to compare Nintendos entire history as gaming influences to rebut the claim that the C64 is more respo0nsible for what gaming is today than 'nintendo ever were'

Spector · Post by **Spector** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:56 am

Well I was talking about the NES, Dr Wily, not so much the whole Nintendo Corporation. What I meant to say was that I think that the Commodore 64's contribution to gaming was more than the NES. And I still think that. Giana Sisters is Mario with less sugar, as someone else said here I think. I know which machine I'd rather take on a desert island with me.

Ian Micheal wrote:Yeah C64 had carts as well quiet a few. And it Was released quiet a bit before the nes. Spectrum was the poor-mans 8 bit computer at the time and the c64 which cost a lot then still outsold it.

Not in the UK, South America, Spain, Portugal and Asia it didn't. Actually in the early days the Spectrum in software terms was the rich mans machine. The games were better back then without question. The C64 pressed the accelarator pedal a little later on and caught up. I'm playing devils advocate here, but the C64/Spectrum war is based on a myth. Neither had better games than the other overall, as far as I can see. It's all about personal preference: what do you want more - colour or resolution? I just don't really know...

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:24 am

Well, I still disagree, as Giana sisters IS Super MArio Brothers just with different sprites - making it not much different from one of the many sprite hacks available for the NES version of Super Mario Brothers. I don't think it would be unfair to say that without SMB1 platformers would have remained in the Jet Set Willy / Manic Miner mould for considerably longer than they did...

Also of course, the vast majority of classics remembered so fondly for the 8 bit computers are games such as Track & Field, Gauntlet, Combat School, Commando, etc - all of which were conversions of arcade games, and shouldnt really be counted as part of the C64 gaming 'legacy'. Thats not to say there werent good games that originated on the C64; games like Wizball, Iridium, Paradroid etc are all classics, but I think the NES contributed many more games that werent conversions from other systems.

For the record I had a Spectrum not a C64, and Ultimate: Play The Game (later known as Rare when bought out by Nintendo) are the sole reason the Spectrum was the better games machine

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:27 am

Well i think system 3 was one of the best along with ocean. And the music like ocean loader and some others from classic games is what made the c64 it's Sales recored and i doubt any machine will break it.

If you check the sales records at the time at christmas more kids got a c64 under there tree then any other machine. Not in some parts of the world. But the nes was only for games. The c64 could be bought for a child for learning and used to print there homework. Or make music and other projects. Nes could do none of this. Spectrum was no were near as good doing any of this the c64 had a real keyboard and more ram.

Key parts here.

-Sound was amazing and still is .
-Usefull-ness
- Great cheap cost games On tape and disk

Games for the c64 were upto half the cost of a nes cart.

Many people would wait for a game to load and listen to the loader tunes and enjoy it get a cup of tea relax most were worth waiting for.

I think that sums it up No c64 emulator that really shows you how good it was there quiet bad to use and dont sound right ether.

Hewson use to make great games for c64 .

Spector · Post by **Spector** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:41 am

Dr Wily and Ian Michael both make good points -
Ian says that games on C64 were half the cost of an NES cart. well, to take it to extremes, Maniac Mansion, the C64 classic (not an arcade conversion by the way) was a tenner on cassette. On the NES, it was released at the RRP of ?60!!
How can anyone call that value for money?
Dr Wily, I'm glad you mentioned Ultimate Play The Game. Yes, they pushed the Spectrum ahead of the C64 in gaming at that time, which is well documented, especially with Knight Lore, the first "proper" isometric 3D arcade adventure, which took advantage of the Spectrum's superior processor speed. The C64 always struggled with that type of game. But no matter - the C64 was great. As was the Spectrum. And the NES. Hey I'm Tony Blair! Trying to be an everyman, pleasing everyone! Except my own political party of course...

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:47 am

Dr Wily wrote:Well, I still disagree, as Giana sisters IS Super MArio Brothers just with different sprites - making it not much different from one of the many sprite hacks available for the NES version of Super Mario Brothers. I don't think it would be unfair to say that without SMB1 platformers would have remained in the Jet Set Willy / Manic Miner mould for considerably longer than they did...

True, but I consider Pitfall to be at least as significant as SMB1 in the history of platform games.

Btw, in The Netherlands the Spectrum wasn't very popular. It was vastly outsold by both the MSX and the C64. So my knowledge of the Spectrum is very limited. I think the first time I heard of it's existence was in 1996.

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:27 pm

Heh. If Dr. Wily would have got a c64 with a copy of wasteland instead of a spectrum he would be playing a different tune right now.

ren6175 · Post by **ren6175** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:03 am

There were some sports games for c64 made by Sportstime specifically Ed Ringler that were way ahead of anything that nintendo offered. In fact they actually had a type of dynasty mode which has really just come back into focus 20 years later.
Omni-play basketball and Superstar Ice Hockey both allowed multiple season play that recorded stats from previous years. They also allowed player trades and even had drafting from the minor leagues. Nintendo went for almost 20 years without a real game that allowed any of these features (except for tecmo sports games).

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:52 pm

Yes the sports games on c64 were very advanced for the times. Remember 4th & Inches? You could build your own team from scratch, naming your team and your players, if you got the expansion pack team builder.

bugaboo · Post by **bugaboo** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:27 pm

excellent discussion, more ! , its an entertaining read.
anyone remember at the time in crash magazine about lunar jetman and their being a secret trailer for the buggy on the later levels ? I spent ages trying to get that and it was all a joke

i used to get crash every month

it was an excellent mag with some great posters. of my mates one had an atari 2600 another had a c64, i used to love playing hypersports round there on the 64, at the time i thought it was exaclty like the arcade version, and another had a vic20 with a cartridge version of gorf, i remember it being an excellent game and it was on cartridge, and i'd never even heard of them, closest i remember was the microdrive thingies.
i got knightlore and underwurlde for christmass one year and was in heaven.
the old rubber spectrums were the best back then i couldnt believe when i first got mine, i was expecting to get a zx81 and endedup with a 48K speccy, most other people i knew at school only had a 16k.
i think rare should remake underwurlde.

sorry i rambled on a bit, i'm stoned