Xbox 720 GPU details

[DanteJay]

Following initial reports from tech blogs Fudzilla and SemiAccurate, our sources have confirmed that mass production of the system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99.

Source

So it's a Radeon HD 6670 and only 20 percent more performance over the Wii-U. Microsoft must be more concerned with costs this time around. Hopefully the cooling is at least adequate this time.

[PH3NOM]

I have been anxious to see what hardware the next gen of consoles will utilize.

So far, that seems on-par with my predictions.

Well, my predictions were merely that Sony and Microsoft will both support DX-11, although Nintendo will still be stuck in the current generation of consoles using DX-9.

[Ayla]

The fact that the GPU does have a x86 driver which supports DX-11 does not mean that the next Sony and Microsoft consoles will use DX-11. The PS3 does use OpenGL, I doubt they'll change that with the PS4.

[DanteJay]

I have been anxious to see what hardware the next gen of consoles will utilize.

So far, that seems on-par with my predictions.

Well, my predictions were merely that Sony and Microsoft will both support DX-11, although Nintendo will still be stuck in the current generation of consoles using DX-9.

I believe the Wii-U will support DirectX 10.1 if I'm not mistaken.

There's no doubt in my mind that hardware wise the PS4 will be superior to the next Xbox. But I do believe that Microsoft's corner cutting may also rub off on Sony. I hope PS4 at least utilizes a 7000 series GPU.

[PH3NOM]

The fact that the GPU does have a x86 driver which supports DX-11 does not mean that the next Sony and Microsoft consoles will use DX-11. The PS3 does use OpenGL, I doubt they'll change that with the PS4.

What meant is that the GPU's that Sony and Microsoft will choose for their next consoles will support "DX-11" shaders.

Funny thing, really. Sony would never license software from Microsoft; instead, they use a derivative.

OpenGL/DirectX shaders can be compiled from identical code, using Cg programming language, which in turn was created by both Microsoft and Nvidia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cg_%28prog ... anguage%29

The PS3's GPU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_%27Rea ... hesizer%27 can run shader code that is identical to DX in this way.

I believe the Wii-U will support DirectX 10.1 if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, but I ignored the fact because DX10 failed. It has not been and will never be widely used.

[Jeeba Jabba]

Hopefully there will be more use of DX11 than just the shaders. Otherwise, PC gaming is going to hurt for the next few years. Besides the bad news that it's using something as weak as a 6670, since most of our titles are ports there wouldn't be any progress to be told much of. However... If they do employ full use of DX11 (which would be absolutely crazy not to, otherwise the only advancement of this next generation would be the resolution), PC gaming will be in veeeeery good shape.

[Ex-Cyber]

Hopefully there will be more use of DX11 than just the shaders.

AFAIK, shaders pretty much do everything these days, to the point that "shader" is really a misnomer anymore. I don't know about DirectX, but on modern ("core profile") OpenGL you can't even render anything without shaders. If you don't want any shader processing, you still have to upload a couple shader programs that basically say "output = input".

[DanteJay]

Here's some more unfortunate news: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Wii-U-Xbox- ... 13994.html

I don't understand how they could be allowed to implement a system that will deny you playing a used game. These companies have really gotten out of control.

[melancholy]

Here's some more unfortunate news: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Wii-U-Xbox- ... 13994.html

I don't understand how they could be allowed to implement a system that will deny you playing a used game. These companies have really gotten out of control.

It's not terribly surprising. The PC market has been doing it for years with CD keys that activate on Steam. Once the key is tied to your account, you own it forever. Same with all these Smartphone apps. Hell, it's how XBLA works. So it would be terribly easy for Microsoft to include keys that tie to your Live account.

Not that I agree with it, I think it's shitty. But it's pretty much the direction the market has been moving anyway.

[Jeeba Jabba]

Here's some more unfortunate news: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Wii-U-Xbox- ... 13994.html

I don't understand how they could be allowed to implement a system that will deny you playing a used game. These companies have really gotten out of control.

It's not terribly surprising. The PC market has been doing it for years with CD keys that activate on Steam. Once the key is tied to your account, you own it forever. Same with all these Smartphone apps. Hell, it's how XBLA works. So it would be terribly easy for Microsoft to include keys that tie to your Live account.

Not that I agree with it, I think it's shitty. But it's pretty much the direction the market has been moving anyway.

Word. Games on PC have had CD-Keys since the '90s. It won't affect me in the least, because I don't buy used games or get rid of them. But it definitely sucks for those who rent, and I'm sure GameFly is shitting itself.

[Lartrak]

It's worth mentioning all we have so far is an "unnamed source" who provides literally zero details. It's a big deal to me though - it means I may skip the 720 entirely if it's true. A major part of what I like about console stuff is collection/older stuff.

[melancholy]

Actually, that brings up a good point. If they are going to require registering keys, I sincerely hope that they make their games available for download too. Because I can't imagine the inflated cost of niche games or Collector's Editions if, once played, can never be sold again. Imagine having a NIS JRPG release with a limited production run and no means of obtaining the game beyond a sealed copy. The resellers in the world would go crazy snatching up retail copies and then blowing up prices knowing that every copy played is literally one less that will ever come to market.

[Jeeba Jabba]

I know that we're a rotting corpse, but we should still adhere to identifying our actions when moving a topic.

[DanteJay]

I know that we're a rotting corpse, but we should still adhere to identifying our actions when moving a topic.

Perhaps if the op creator wasn't retarded, this would have been started in the correct forum. XD


On a more serious note, there's now rumors circulating that Sony will be pulling out of the next gen console war. Folks from online game streaming service Gaikai have been quoted as stating that one of the console makers has informed them that they will be pulling out of the next generation of game consoles. Nintendo and Microsoft have already announced their plans, whereas Sony still has not. In fact, what's interesting is that Sony just recently announced that PS4 will not be shown at this year's E3.

So (if true) this could mean many things. Perhaps they plan to continue throughout this next gen with the PS3 (which would attest to their belief in the PS3 having a 10yr life span)? There's speculation that they perhaps they are planning a different type of home entertainment machine that will implement online game/media streaming (maybe in a effort to better combat piracy?) There's also some saying that they are trying to beat Apple to the punch with regard to their new TV/media service they are working on.

Either way, if this rumor proves true, this is going to be the biggest shift ever made in home console gaming.

[BlueCrab]

I know that we're a rotting corpse, but we should still adhere to identifying our actions when moving a topic.

|darc| did it. Guess he didn't want to post to make sure that the world didn't end or something.

It's worth mentioning all we have so far is an "unnamed source" who provides literally zero details. It's a big deal to me though - it means I may skip the 720 entirely if it's true. A major part of what I like about console stuff is collection/older stuff.

Agreed, on all points. Most of the stuff I own, I've bought used. I wouldn't be able to afford to get anywhere near all the stuff I'd want otherwise. That said, if one of the three console manufacturers were to do this (without the other two getting involved), I would see a lot of people not buying that particular console. Pretty much the only way that this would succeed for anyone is if everyone in the market did it all at once. Otherwise, the one that tries would be severely handicapped from the start, I think.

Actually, that brings up a good point. If they are going to require registering keys, I sincerely hope that they make their games available for download too. Because I can't imagine the inflated cost of niche games or Collector's Editions if, once played, can never be sold again. Imagine having a NIS JRPG release with a limited production run and no means of obtaining the game beyond a sealed copy. The resellers in the world would go crazy snatching up retail copies and then blowing up prices knowing that every copy played is literally one less that will ever come to market.

Well, JRPGs are about the only things I actually buy new (and I usually preorder the limited edition sets and whatnot)... Would be annoying to know that if I missed it on the initial preorder that I'd never be able to get it for a reasonable price though...

[Lartrak]

The one thing that'd be nice if they go the way of something like Steam is if they have sales like Steam does. But based on what I see of the prices on Xbox Live (completely ridiculous, disc copies are usually half the price) that's not going to happen. Basically the only reason I buy stuff on Steam is to snap up a sale so good it stomps on the price of physical copies. Like, IIRC, I paid like $20 for Left 4 Dead 2 something like 3 months after it came out.

[Code-Red]

Here's some more unfortunate news: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Wii-U-Xbox- ... 13994.html

I don't understand how they could be allowed to implement a system that will deny you playing a used game. These companies have really gotten out of control.

It's not terribly surprising. The PC market has been doing it for years with CD keys that activate on Steam. Once the key is tied to your account, you own it forever.

There is completely legitimate reason for that, and it's that piracy on the PC has always been very easy to perform. Retailers and developers caught on pretty early that people were going out, buying games, copying the disc and then stealing the CD-key, at which point they would return it. It's not that easy on a console.

While this is a rumor, it stinks of EA. I'm sure they are stronghanding Microsoft behind the scenes, being they are the ones who came up with the idea of multiplayer keys for used games. Either way, if this is how it will play out, I will not by buying a next generation console.

[melancholy]

Here's the way I see it; I don't mind if Microsoft implements a key system that makes a purchase forever yours. All that changes is how much money Microsoft will get out of my purchases.

Say some new game comes out on the 360 that interests me a little bit. If it hits the shelf with a $60 price tag, I might see it and weigh my desire to own the game versus how much I could get back from trade-in if it sucks. If I know that the trade-in is $30, I'm taking a ~$30 risk that I will like that game. But if that game is on Steam, my risk is the full $60. It is roughly double what it is on the 360 simply because I can sell the 360 game. Which means that I'm willing to spend more money on a 360 game than I am on a Steam game.

So on the one hand, you have more people willing to spend more money on games because they can sell them (be it playing it and selling it immediately to maximize their value or selling it to minimize their loss), but you lose revenue from the sales of used copies. And on the other hand, you have less people willing to spend money on games because they absorb the full cost, but you get the revenue from every copy sold. The question is, which is more profitable.

[DanteJay]

The way I see it, is that it's all about taking control away from consumers (a form of capitalism if you will). All in all, large corporations in the tech industry are ever moving forward in trying to take full control of how, when and where you purchase your content/product. And it seems that slowly, it's happening thanks to the great pioneers of this philosophy, including Apple, Microsoft and Sony.

[Specially Cork]

My main concern is it's just baby steps toward a purely digital distribution method - either through downloading games or online streaming. I don't mind digital distro on the PC - but on the consoles with no guarantee of backwards compatibility and zero competition - it's a different story. The prices for full PS3 games on PSN are obscene and never budge - it's only going to get worse if they eventually convince enough gamers to ditch physical media and stores completely.

The way I see it, is that it's all about taking control away from consumers (a form of capitalism if you will). All in all, large corporations in the tech industry are ever moving forward in trying to take full control of how, when and where you purchase your content/product. And it seems that slowly, it's happening thanks to the great pioneers of this philosophy, including Apple, Microsoft and Sony.

Multiple bites of the same apple. From the company's point of view, giving me a full game for one fixed price is broken because they can't get more money from me without finding new product. It's like Game Dev Story; make a game, sell it, profit, start again. They'd rather all games were more like WoW - a single idea steadily maintained with potential to continually generate revenue for years after original release.