Eclipse, Linux, and Dreamcast Dev

[EnigmaticCoder]

I was wondering if anyone has ever setup Eclipse to work with Dreamcast development. Were you able to build .elf files from within the IDE? Any tips?

Thanks.

[EnigmaticCoder]

I figured out how to do it, but I have to use a make file :\

[losinggeneration]

I figured out how to do it, but I have to use a make file :\

Is that honestly a bad thing? If you release anything DC related without a Makefile, or even with just a Eclipse project file, people are going to be even less likely to try compiling your code themselves. The Makefiles are also typically pretty simple to edit and understand (and KOS provides premade rules for Makefiles to use.)

[Quzar]

Also, would you mind posting your solution? Having a guide for another IDE with DC dev would be nice.

[3vix_6]

Funny thing, I started on something of the same thing.

I had the idea of a unified development OS, almost like a Katana OS, but for X86. Something based off of Debian or Ubuntu, maybe?

This would contain a cross compiler for SH4, a version of Netbeans or Eclipse (Personally I'm a netbeans fan) and a few other apps like GIMP and Blender.

I started on some scripts written in Perl that would automatically do the CD burning for Dreamcast on Linux using cdrecord (Unfortunately, I've been sick so I haven't gotten as far as I wanted to). I was thinking if something was created to take all the technical aspects out of configuration and let programmers focus on programming, we may have more way cool stuff come out for the DC.

Last portion would be to recompile the Linux Kernel for SH4 and use that for games and development on the DC instead of Kallistios.

Don't know if this is what you're getting to.. If you're interested in doing it, I'd be interested to help!

[BlueCrab]

Last portion would be to recompile the Linux Kernel for SH4 and use that for games and development on the DC instead of Kallistios.

As for Linux on the Dreamcast, its been done before, but don't expect it to be particularly useful. You're quite limited in what you can do graphics wise, since nobody ever made a driver for the PowerVR that was usable for Direct Rendering with X11 (so, OpenGL is pretty much a no-go -- Mesa's far too slow for anything worthwhile).

In all honesty, you're probably not all that likely to find people that really want to do Linux-based Dreamcast development, since KallistiOS is simpler, and will in general produce much nicer/quicker results (its always going to be quicker to do anything without a full-on monolithic OS sitting underneath you).

[3vix_6]

Linux for Dreamcast was done, but with older kernels..

This development set up would be a 2 tier approach.. There would be the X86 development suite and then when people would want to compile and create a game, they can build a multi disc image that would use Linux or NetBSD for the handling of things like the MapleBus, and PowerVR2. Linux programs that have no business of being there, wouldn't be included.

I'm not looking to do a version of "Linux" with programs and stupid worthless applications running off an almost useless slow box, I'm looking to base a distro off of linux that would be a jumpstart for whatever games someone would want to program.
Almost like Windows CE, except using a stripped down version of Linux.

The PowerVR already has Linux drivers a revision of the hardware is being used in the OpenPandora handheld.

I recently tried to compile a kernel for the SH4 (2.6.x) and it had more options that supported the use of the SH7750, Maple Bus, as well as the PowerVR2...

[BlueCrab]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to tell you its pointless to do it, I was just stating what I know from looking at the community as it exists now. There's very few people left that have the technical know-how to make something like this happen, but if you want to attempt it; go for it. I'd love to see it. Just, as I said, don't expect too terribly many people to want to use it after you make it. No matter what you do, its always going to be slower than using KOS -- Linux is a much larger beast than KOS and uses far more resources for even the base kernel without any userland.

Also, in regard to the PowerVR driver that may exist for Linux/X11 for use with newer devices: the PowerVR that it supports is likely very different to what that in the Dreamcast is. As far as I know, PowerVR chips have changed quite drastically since the Dreamcast, and they are not compatible with the older chips. Thus, a OpenPandora PowerVR driver would help you very little in making a Dreamcast one in all likelihood.

Also, there really shouldn't be that much trouble in getting the kernel compiled. The kernel still supports SuperH, and I'm reasonably sure that there were still a few people updating/maintaining drivers for the 2.6.x for the Dreamcast tree up until at least early last year. The Maple code in there should still work, as should the GD-ROM and AICA code (the last updates I saw were in relation to those last two).

[Ayla]

Again, what's the point ? It's way easier to just run KOS. You would gain nothing in running linux.

And btw, the dreamcast and the pandora PVRs have quite nothing in common. There's a driver yes, but it is designed for the pandora's PVR. Futhermore, it's an ARM binary driver and source is not included.

Edit : aaah, beaten x_x

[3vix_6]

Can OpenGL be used with Kallistos? Is it still even being updated?

[BlueCrab]

There are various versions of what is know generally as KallistiGL, which while it is nowhere near OpenGL-compliant, does provide enough to make many things work fairly well.

As for whether they're being updated still, the original one, in the KallistiOS tree hasn't been updated in a while, but that's because there's nobody who's interested in doing it. As for any other versions, I really can't say.

As for KallistiOS in general, yes, it is still being worked on (at least, I am still working on it). Now, mind you, many of my changes to KOS don't ever find their way into the main KOS tree (some break things, some are otherwise destabilizing to other people's code, and some are just plain pointless to commit), but most of them do eventually end up there.

Mind you, I don't really see a lack of commits to KOS as a bad thing -- when something works and is stable, you generally don't want to break it.

[Jae686]

Well i would not mind seeing KGL-X and chui's SDL there .
And I would not mind to have the KalistiOS in a .deb

[BlueCrab]

Well i would not mind seeing KGL-X and chui's SDL there .
And I would not mind to have the KalistiOS in a .deb

I'm not adding anything to the kos-ports tree right now, because I think that the kos-ports tree in general is a horrible way to distribute things. Also, I am fundamentally against putting Chui's SDL in at all due to the many more instabilities I've heard about with regard to it than regular SDL.

Also, don't count on seeing a .deb of it, considering that would require everything that it requires to be packed up as a .deb as well (and I don't use any Debian-based Linux distros to do anything like that). That being said, I have put together a set of PKGBUILDs for doing a whole Dreamcast toolchain (including KOS) on Arch Linux...

EDIT: Also, just putting this out there, I absolutely hate Ubuntu (since that's probably why anyone would be asking for .deb files lately). Debian was a decent distro (I have used it heavily in the past), but Ubuntu is crap. I'm not going to argue the point any more, so as not to start some holy war here...

[Jae686]

Worry not.

As long as I can still get the toolchain as it is, I'm happy with it

[Chilly Willy]

So if you don't mind, where would the "latest" KOS be found? The main trunk version I've worked from has that annoying problem of blowing up if the networking is enabled and the ethernet is connected. If I disconnect the ethernet or disable networking, then it gets to the start of the program fine. I'd love to try a version if the ethernet support was updated just to see if it fixes the problem.

[BlueCrab]

So if you don't mind, where would the "latest" KOS be found? The main trunk version I've worked from has that annoying problem of blowing up if the networking is enabled and the ethernet is connected. If I disconnect the ethernet or disable networking, then it gets to the start of the program fine. I'd love to try a version if the ethernet support was updated just to see if it fixes the problem.

I've never seen this problem myself (things breaking if networking is enabled)... The network stack is pretty much all my own work, so if its still a problem in current KOS, I'd like to know about it...

Anyway, KOS is in a subversion repository on SourceForge as a part of the Cryptic Allusion DCDev Project.

If you can grab the current kos from there (current is in kos in the repository there) and see if your problem persists, I'd appreciate it.

[Chilly Willy]

Okay, thanks. I'll do that.