Doom with orginal Music I'd love to see it.

luke56ker · Post by **luke56ker** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:04 am

Well doom on the dreamcast is great don't get me wrong but it just doesnt' feel the same without the music will the music ever be implemented and if not why not. And I notice the graphics kinda looked washed out on the dreamcast why is this I whould think it whould look better since quake 1 is fully 3d and doesn't appear as washed out. This isn't a negative post just wondering on these issues.

Duker900 · Post by **Duker900** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:27 am

Um, because iD didn't make the sound code for doom, mini support needs to be added from scratch (same with every other doom port)

spaceboy100 · Post by **spaceboy100** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:16 am

Quake was ported by a team of profesonal coders, Doom was ported by 2 members of the DCDev scene in their spare time. I think the graphics are ok, and there are some nice filter options in the video menu.
Also Quake is a Polygon 3D game, and apparently the DC handles 3D much better than 2D.
Anyway it is a great port, music would be nice. Saving would be nicer.

PuniPuniSakura · Post by **PuniPuniSakura** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:25 pm

bleh, i never liked the Doom music anyways

Butter_pat_head · Post by **Butter_pat_head** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:43 am

ChibiSakura wrote:bleh, i never liked the Doom music anyways

Were you listening to the FM adlib synthesis or wavetable? On my AWE64gold with a 1.5 meg snes soundfont doom's music just kicks ass! Even better with the 4 meg soundfont! However, the DC only has 2 meg of sound ram but the regular AWE cards only have 512K ram and a 1 meg rom for samples, so I think its possible to fit a half decent instrument bank and the games sound effects into the DC's 2 meg.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:46 am

I think that some of the fan-made Amiga ports of Doom used sound banks to play back the music, and they weren't too massive. Maybe we could 'borrow' some code from those?

reaper2k2 · Post by **reaper2k2** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:52 am

does it have full sound now and is it less blocky and jerky

any one now and how does doom 2 run on it

Post by **Specially Cork** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 5:31 am

Is it actually possible for Dreamcast to play midi files?
Midi files are just data files which tells your soundcard which sounds to play.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:13 am

As far as I know, the DC doesn't have a sound synthesiser. So you'd have to do software synthesis. There are a few ways of doing this

First choice: Use wavetable synthesis. That's what DirectMusic on a PC does. I think the DC has enough sound RAM to put a cut-down set of samples in SoundRAM, and use the ARM CPU to act like a MIDI synthesiser. Should be fast enough too. This is probably the best method, and the hardest to do (from a programming perspective).

Method 2: Record all the songs on a PC (using very high quality synthesis), and save them as MP3/OGG files, or as CD tracks. Modify DoomDC to play those.

Method 3: Remix all the music as Tracker files (like s3m, mod, xm, it...). That way, you can play them easily. However, they're a pain to convert properly.

Method 4: use an FM chip emulator. I think Doom was make when Adlib-style sound synthesis was used in most sound cards. I think that was an OPL2, which there are emulators for. You could use one of those to play MIDI music. Also very easy to program, but might sound really bad (just like it did under DOS)

Method 5: Have the first and fourth methods, and the ability to switch between them. This way, you can have high-quality (if you want it, or if you have a wavetable card when you first played doom), or retro FM style (if you had a crappy sound card when you first played Doom, and want to relive that experience).

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 11:28 am

Boney Cork wrote:Is it actually possible for Dreamcast to play midi files?
Midi files are just data files which tells your soundcard which sounds to play.

Well, the DC Web Browser can play midis so it should be possible for Doom. Although MP3s would be better.

XDelusion · Post by **XDelusion** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:08 pm

This conversation has come up before, the last I heard, either Grendal or crt0 said it would be rather tricky if not impossible to get the midi support into DOOM on the DC, on the other hand I really do not miss it, I would be perfectly happy with CDDA support and if not that then MOD or SM3 support would work out great as well!

Polymira · Post by **Polymira** » Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:08 pm

About quake1 looking better then doom...

Quake1 is fully 3d, and the dreamcast version is using full 3d graphics acceleration. Meaning it's more like GLQuake on DC...

Doom to my knowledge is actually 2d with tricks to make it 3d ... if not, it's still all software rendered in low resolution... If you have ever used Doom Legacy, you probobly have noticed how the characters are still 2d

and if playing midi's is impossible or whatnot, they could implement a mp3 player (or any other format for that matter), and have an option to play mp3 files from the cd . . . and you could put doom music in there in that format .... or hell . .your own music for that matter..

BUT, it would be a bitch to keep doom running at full speed with that =/

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 10:08 am

If we had MOD or S3M support (maybe even using parts of the S3M player from KOS?), then you could just convert the MUS files to MIDI using some Doom editing tools, then convert from MIDI to S3M using Modplug, add loop points, fiddle with it a bit to get it all working properly, then play those. Probably CDDA support or MP3 support would be better. You could possible get the sound CPU to do all of the music playing and sound effect mixing too, if you wanted to.

Doom is a kind of 2.5D engine. The objects sort of move in 3D space (well, actually 2D movement which can sometimes go up/down), but it uses 2D raycasting and 2D image scaling for rendering. There's no 3D code in it at all. The polygon rendering engines for Doom totally replace the rendering system, which is very hard to do. But it does look very nice.

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 10:30 am

BlackAura wrote:...convert from MIDI to S3M using Modplug

Can ModPlug convert MIDI to S3M? I've never been able to find that before - could you please say how you do it?

Thanks

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu Jul 04, 2002 10:37 am

az_bont wrote:Can ModPlug convert MIDI to S3M? I've never been able to find that before - could you please say how you do it?

Thinking about it, I think it actually converts to Impulse Tracker format. What you have to do it open the MIDI file as if it were a tracker file (MOD, IT, XM, S3M...). It will then automatically convert it to Impulse Tracker format, using the instrument data from your system's DirectMusic Wavetable instrument sets. Converting it to S3M format would require a little more work, because it's 32-channel 128-row-per-pattern. It is possible to do that, but it'd be better if we could write an IT player (I think KOS actually has one - the ModPlug player interface!)

crt0 · Post by **crt0** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:33 pm

Woo. A topic I can reply to (and set everyone straight :P).

Dreamcast can't really play MIDI in hardware. With some of the different official Sega development libs (Shinobi and Audio64), it's possible to play back Type 0 MIDI files with sound banks, so it's wavetable synthesis.

DoomDC source code has been out for a while (on DCGrendel's site somewhere). If anyone wants to take a stab at getting it to play music, they are welcome to. I had hacked in MP3 support that never really worked right (once it did, but then I broke it, so heh...). I had the Doom II soundtrack from CD in MP3 format, was pretty cool.

If you can find source to do MIDI->S3M conversion, you'd be a step closer to get music working as well. (I tried this before. Didn't work out.)

The original Doom source release (linuxdoom-1.10 I believe) did not have music code. All the music functions were stubbed out. Several Doom ports support MIDI playback though. That is, they convert the MUS soundtracks to MIDI, then play them back. Hrm.

Last thing, to reply to that guy who said that Doom looks washed out... it's a game that is going on 10 years old. It was coded to run in 8-bit color. 256 colors. Not a whole lot of room for variation there, but it's still a quite colorful game. What doesn't help is that this 256 color image is also being blurred by the PVR when rendered to screen. Try resampling an 8-bit color image with blurring in any PC image editor, you'll see a similar result. It gets washed out because you are smoothing a small amount of colors... another problem is that in DCGrendel's compiled and released code, he has the gamma correction set to it's highest level; however, it looks like sh*t. When set to 1 (or whatever the lowest level is), the colors look quite a bit more vibrant.

Swiss_Cheeseman · Post by **Swiss_Cheeseman** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:05 am

How about someone taking a stab at porting Doom Legacy with the 3d renderer instead of software render?

NeonGenesis · Post by **NeonGenesis** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:45 am

Just for the hell of it, I'm going to take a look at the DoomDC source tomorrow, play around a bit. What files contain the code for music, and such? Or, are they even present in any form?

lol, last thing I wrote a sound system for was the Atari XE computer. I created a little midi-like format and loader. Ah, that brings back memories.

XDelusion · Post by **XDelusion** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:29 pm

I'd say go for the S3M support, that is one thing I do not like about Legacy is that is only supports the same old MIDI music and not MP3's let alone S3M files which are phun as hell to compose, and would not doubt add a lot more atmosphere to the game.

For instance take a look at the old PSX version of DOOM, the one thing that set that version ahead of the rest aside of the kich ass controls, was the ambience in the background. You did not have a sound track as so many cheesey new school horror flicks do now a days, no, rather like the old school horror movies of the 80's you had chilling background noises constantly playing through out the levels giving DOOM a whole new level in suspence! With S3M's you can not only creat your music in a tracker program like MIDI files, but you can also select the sound effects you want and not be stuck with the same old instruments time after time. So in this way you could compose a S3M file about 3 to 5 mintues long or so, consisting of creepy growls, scratching, and the occasional uncomfortable silences followed by a sudden bang or screech!!

Think about it.

NeonGenesis · Post by **NeonGenesis** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:19 am

Question to anyone interested, if I were to supply the Doom music in S3M format, would it be possible to integrate it into DoomDC? I believe I've found a process, although rather long, to get the original Doom MUS files allll the way into S3M. It's going to be a pain in the ass and quite time consuming, but I'll do it if I know they'll be put to use.

Doom with orginal Music I'd love to see it.

Doom with orginal Music I'd love to see it.

doom dc