OSX "Leopard" Is a Smug Bastard

[Code-Red]

Apple users/systems seem to be full of themselves as of late.

Remember what happened last time girls.

[Covar]

I think it's amusing.

[|darc|]

As for the icon? I think it's harmless fun.

No, it's the representation of a childish one-up attitude that has been the crux of Apple's business plan for years. I've been subjected to loads of Apple advertising over the years and I am still none-the-wiser as to what is actually better about Macs.

All I've seen is an Apple-led one-man pissing contest telling me that Macs are more "hip". All their marketing still seems fixated on selling a lifestyle and a brand rather than a product. Hell, maybe that is more successful, but I'll personally always respect Microsoft more for not joining in.

Get fucking real. How is any underdog company supposed to market its products without explaining why it's better than the competition? What's your idea for a commercial--"Apple: We make a pretty good operating system!"? Most people don't know what the fuck an operating system is or why they should use a Mac. It's a business, not a lifestyle, and any business in the position that Apple is in in this industry would act the same way. Windows has flaws and it's something that's widely made fun of. Apple is just picking up on that and using it to convert customers. Its platform doesn't have nearly the same amount of technical issues. It's a fact. So why not make a commercial showing all the pissed off Windows users getting a Mac--something that people can identify with. So the Switcher campaign was born, and the Get a Mac campaign out of that.

It's not about being "hip"--none of Apple's commercials have portrayed that. It has simply been about being a normal person, not a businessperson. It's the appeal to people's emotions that Apple is just like you and makes products for normal people like you. The only problem is that you isn't you--you're a power user and you know your way around Windows. You know what websites not to go to and what not to install on your box. A lot of people don't and that's why they wind up with so much spyware and crap on their boxes. These are the people that these commercials appeal to. It's not about "Windows is dum n we like teh stylish macs!!"

They're not going to market to you because it doesn't make sense to. People who know about computers are either already loyal to Microsoft or would do the research themselves into a Mac. Any marketing Apple does to power users is just going to make "normal people" confused and more likely to think that Apple computers are complex.

And of course Microsoft doesn't enter the pissing contest. First, you don't have to when you practically own the market, and second, it would be stupid to make consumers aware that there's another option. Mentioning Apple in marketing would simply draw attention to Apple's platform as an alternative--something that many people don't realize exists.

Apple and Microsoft are just doing what any other company would do in their positions. You're the one viewing Apple's marketing as lifestyle marketing (this is only true for the iPod--but that's understandable). Is the Pepsi smug? The majority of marketing by Pepsi is with celebrities and so forth making Pepsi look like the "cool" thing to drink, and on top of that the Pepsi challenge telling everyone how much better Pepsi is than Coke. Coke's marketing? Feel-good polar bears that don't acknowledge Pepsi. People don't call Pepsi smug because no one takes cola that seriously. The only reason why you're pissed about Apple's marketing is because you think Apple is infringing on your lifestyle choice. PC users only think Apple users have a different lifestyle choice because they're so used to being on Windows that anything else is foreign and surely would be a different lifestyle.

In addition to the BSOD Windows icon is the new TextEdit icon:


Also, don't forget about Microsoft's extremely dubious "Get the Facts" campaign for the server market that smears lies about Linux to get Linux users to switch to Windows Server. If you think Apple's marketing is bad, Get the Facts is right there with it. The UK's ASA even warned Microsoft about the overly misleading ad.

[pavelbure]

if this icon thing is the worst thing that happens for you consider yourself lucky. it's called competition or a rivalry. this is no different than stunts people pull when there favorite sports team plays a heated rival game.

b.t.w. i find it funny.

[Nico0020]

haha thats great. though i say that since I'm a Linux user. OS X still frustrates me to even attempt to use on anything productive. I'll stick with Ubuntu and WINE for backup. And if worst comes to worse, ive still got a small windows partition.

[SadisticSaviorX]

No, it's the representation of a childish one-up attitude that has been the crux of Apple's business plan for years.

It's just an icon, if it offends you change it. If you don't run Os X..what's the problem?

In all honesty I haven't used my pc for anything other than playing WoW since I got my Macbook..it's just a nicely thought out computer. Everything seems to have a feel like it been taken into account and not just slapped together like almost all windows machines give me. The interface seems much more lively than a windows machine as well. For example.. if an application needs your attention it bounces on the dock rather than just flashing in the taskbar. It's just the little things that make the whole machine that much better.

[Stormwatch]

In addition to the BSOD Windows icon is the new TextEdit icon

Here's to the crazy ones.
    The misfits.
        The rebels.
            The troublemakers.
                The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.

They're not fond of rules.
    And they have no respect for the status quo.

You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them,
    disbelieve them, glorify them or vilify them.
About the only thing you can't do is ignore them.

Because they change things.
    They invent. They imagine. They heal.
    They explore. They create. They inspire.
They push the human race forward.

Maybe they have to be crazy.
How else can you stare at an empty canvas and see a work of art?
    Or sit in silence and hear a song that's never been written?
Or gaze at a red planet and see a laboratory on wheels?

We make tools for these kinds of people.
Because while some see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.

And it's the people who are crazy enough to think they can
change the world who actually do.

[Quzar]

The average "mainstream" computer user feels no emotional ties to the OS, why would they feel insulted? Do you think mainstream cola drinkers--who would likely drinking Coke--get offended by Pepsi challenge commercials?

Actually that's a fairly poor analogy. Coca Cola has had a great deal of very memorable advertising over the past 50+ years that was specifically targeted to emotion and trying to tie into the feel of a generation. Think of the Coke polar bears, Mean Joe Green's "here kid", I'd like to buy the world a coke, and the coke santa. Most anyone I've ever know that cared at all did so in great part due to family ties to the product. Grandpa gives a kid a bottle of coke like he used to buy for a nickel after the war etc.

Anyways. The only time I've seen a BSOD in the past ... since windows 95 was on machines with faulty hardware. I don't agree with the stance Apple has taken in basically saying that windows PCs are useless pieces of junk, and I think it's relatively in poor taste for them to use that as an icon for a windows machine. It just a bit petty to do that.

[fatheadpi]

I looked at switching to Apple about 4 months ago. My tower blew up after 5 years of faithful service and a power surge. My 800 Mhz, $100 slapped-together-off-ebay-carcasses Dell Inspiron 2500 wasn't up to the task of running PSO:BB, which is sad, as it was a great little number cruncher and beater book for work and the road. I decided that having a tower, a laptop, a MP3 player, and a pocket PC was just too much. I needed a more all-in-one solution, and was seriously considering getting a Mac. Good god, what a misadventure.

First off, I decided I wanted to consolidate my tower and notebook down to a gaming notebook. I wanted to spend about $1,000 on the whole affair. I found the A8J series of ASUS notebooks looked good, especially after setting up a $600 ASUS Z7100 gaming book for my girlfriend for her birthday. Core2Duo processor, 1 - 2 gigs of ram, DVD writer, and a dedicated 512 MB Nvidia go 7700 card. Not too shabby. But what the hell, why not look at getting a Mac?

- The Mac Store: Okay, I understand they're there to sell a product and are competing against the entire PC market, but seriously, WTF? None of these people could give me a clear idea of why a Mac was better than a PC. The selling points I remember:

- My OS is better than your OS cus it's not as old and it's more maintained. Ok, PC users have had Windows update free for years. And my OS is newer = I pay money every year just for another goddamn OS. I just swapped from Windows 2k SP4, and only because ASUS didn't make the drivers I needed for 2000. Fortunately, with the exception of getting MusicMatch 7.5 to run, XP is actually a better OS than 2K once you get it set up.

- You can run XP on a Mac if you shell out an extra $100 for this software title. Great, I can blow 10% of my budget just to get the functionality I could get for free out of a PC. I hear there's a feature called boot camp now that's built into the OS... if you buy the OS upgrade.

- Any I-app > all of the 100's of PC apps you can get to do the same thing. Not true. I hate I-Tunes, and I loathe the fact that every player tries to emulate it. I got exactly what I wanted / needed 10 years ago when I bought MusicMatch 4.5, and it only got better up to 7.5. Hell, the HTC Audio Manager on my PocketPC does a better job of playing music than the ITunes I downloaded. Plus, their music store sucks. I am also not paying a buck a track, especially when I don't get to pick the format. Record companies might hate stores like AllOfMP3, but they really hit the nail on the head in terms of what the modern consumer wants. No BS copyright nonsense, and control over the format.

- Mac apps try to force you to use Mac stuff. I bought the AirPort cus it seemed cool and I wanted a wireless connection to my house stereo and speakers. It is cool, if you only want to use I-Tunes to play your music. Otherwise, you have to A) get random 3rd party software or B) buy a competing PC product.

- They couldn't give me a single example of a Mac playing / ripping CD's and movies, gaming, or browsing the web. "IE sucks!" Yeah, no shit. Ever hear of FireFox? It's free. "But the Mac has Office!" Yeah, Office '07, the worst version to date. PC's have it too, by the way. "Mac's have games!" PC's have more.

- PC's get viruses: Haven't had one in years, even using only a monthly virus scan from symantec, not even real-time. Mac's might not need virus protection, but they sure need failed update protection. My friend has a G4 macbook that always has issues, and they always come from failed updates. And he buys an OS every year.

- No ActiveSync - I'm not buying an IPhone to match an IBook. My PocketPC's about the best PC I've ever had. 1 or 2 novelty features aside, it does everything an IPhone does, and is about 2 years older. It's also just as fast on the web. They are both on the same GSM networks.

I really don't see what's better about anything Apple. They aren't more stable. They don't offer magical new features. They sure as hell aren't cheaper. Seriously, what is better about a Mac? Can someone please tell me?

[not just souLLy now]

I looked at switching to Apple about 4 months ago. My tower blew up after 5 years of faithful service and a power surge. My 800 Mhz, $100 slapped-together-off-ebay-carcasses Dell Inspiron 2500 wasn't up to the task of running PSO:BB, which is sad, as it was a great little number cruncher and beater book for work and the road. I decided that having a tower, a laptop, a MP3 player, and a pocket PC was just too much. I needed a more all-in-one solution, and was seriously considering getting a Mac. Good god, what a misadventure.

First off, I decided I wanted to consolidate my tower and notebook down to a gaming notebook. I wanted to spend about $1,000 on the whole affair. I found the A8J series of ASUS notebooks looked good, especially after setting up a $600 ASUS Z7100 gaming book for my girlfriend for her birthday. Core2Duo processor, 1 - 2 gigs of ram, DVD writer, and a dedicated 512 MB Nvidia go 7700 card. Not too shabby. But what the hell, why not look at getting a Mac?

- The Mac Store: Okay, I understand they're there to sell a product and are competing against the entire PC market, but seriously, WTF? None of these people could give me a clear idea of why a Mac was better than a PC. The selling points I remember:

- My OS is better than your OS cus it's not as old and it's more maintained. Ok, PC users have had Windows update free for years. And my OS is newer = I pay money every year just for another goddamn OS. I just swapped from Windows 2k SP4, and only because ASUS didn't make the drivers I needed for 2000. Fortunately, with the exception of getting MusicMatch 7.5 to run, XP is actually a better OS than 2K once you get it set up.

- You can run XP on a Mac if you shell out an extra $100 for this software title. Great, I can blow 10% of my budget just to get the functionality I could get for free out of a PC. I hear there's a feature called boot camp now that's built into the OS... if you buy the OS upgrade.

- Any I-app > all of the 100's of PC apps you can get to do the same thing. Not true. I hate I-Tunes, and I loathe the fact that every player tries to emulate it. I got exactly what I wanted / needed 10 years ago when I bought MusicMatch 4.5, and it only got better up to 7.5. Hell, the HTC Audio Manager on my PocketPC does a better job of playing music than the ITunes I downloaded. Plus, their music store sucks. I am also not paying a buck a track, especially when I don't get to pick the format. Record companies might hate stores like AllOfMP3, but they really hit the nail on the head in terms of what the modern consumer wants. No BS copyright nonsense, and control over the format.

- Mac apps try to force you to use Mac stuff. I bought the AirPort cus it seemed cool and I wanted a wireless connection to my house stereo and speakers. It is cool, if you only want to use I-Tunes to play your music. Otherwise, you have to A) get random 3rd party software or B) buy a competing PC product.

- They couldn't give me a single example of a Mac playing / ripping CD's and movies, gaming, or browsing the web. "IE sucks!" Yeah, no shit. Ever hear of FireFox? It's free. "But the Mac has Office!" Yeah, Office '07, the worst version to date. PC's have it too, by the way. "Mac's have games!" PC's have more.

- PC's get viruses: Haven't had one in years, even using only a monthly virus scan from symantec, not even real-time. Mac's might not need virus protection, but they sure need failed update protection. My friend has a G4 macbook that always has issues, and they always come from failed updates. And he buys an OS every year.

- No ActiveSync - I'm not buying an IPhone to match an IBook. My PocketPC's about the best PC I've ever had. 1 or 2 novelty features aside, it does everything an IPhone does, and is about 2 years older. It's also just as fast on the web. They are both on the same GSM networks.

I really don't see what's better about anything Apple. They aren't more stable. They don't offer magical new features. They sure as hell aren't cheaper. Seriously, what is better about a Mac? Can someone please tell me?

Attractive design and you get to join the cool parade, seems to be it from what I can tell

[|darc|]

- My OS is better than your OS cus it's not as old and it's more maintained. Ok, PC users have had Windows update free for years. And my OS is newer = I pay money every year just for another goddamn OS. I just swapped from Windows 2k SP4, and only because ASUS didn't make the drivers I needed for 2000. Fortunately, with the exception of getting MusicMatch 7.5 to run, XP is actually a better OS than 2K once you get it set up.

OS X upgrades cost $130 for the full version. There have been 5 versions that cost money since early 2001, which equals $650 in OS upgrades if you purchase each one (which you don't have to--the older versions still get patches and such). Meanwhile XP and Vista have costed $650 as well if you get the full versions. That means in the 6.5 years of the modern OS era (OS X and NT-based Windows) you get much more value out of OS X upgrades than you have Windows upgrades.

- You can run XP on a Mac if you shell out an extra $100 for this software title. Great, I can blow 10% of my budget just to get the functionality I could get for free out of a PC. I hear there's a feature called boot camp now that's built into the OS... if you buy the OS upgrade.

This is completely irrelevant. You can run XP and OS X at the same time if you shell out an extra $100 for this software title, just like you can run XP and another operating system in Windows if you shell out $100 for the Windows version of that software title. You were being offered a virtualization solution.

Any Intel Mac can run Windows natively without any software. Put the disc in and boot from it and install it, just like any other computer, and download the Apple ISO of Mac hardware drivers for Windows from the internet.

However, if you're too stupid to partition a disk, then the newest OS X includes an easy partition wizard and driver CD burner called Boot Camp that sets it all up for you. There's no extra cost; it's just a feature in the new OS.

- Any I-app > all of the 100's of PC apps you can get to do the same thing. Not true. I hate I-Tunes, and I loathe the fact that every player tries to emulate it. I got exactly what I wanted / needed 10 years ago when I bought MusicMatch 4.5, and it only got better up to 7.5. Hell, the HTC Audio Manager on my PocketPC does a better job of playing music than the ITunes I downloaded. Plus, their music store sucks. I am also not paying a buck a track, especially when I don't get to pick the format. Record companies might hate stores like AllOfMP3, but they really hit the nail on the head in terms of what the modern consumer wants. No BS copyright nonsense, and control over the format.

No, any iApp > better than all of the scattered shit on a PC. Yes, you can get the same functionality out of a PC. The experience won't be anywhere near what you'll get on a Mac, though. The iLife suite does everything better than its Windows-provided equivalents and then does things that Windows doesn't. Yes, PCs have 100s of little apps that you can download for free and you can get the same functionality out of it. iLife has apps that are all designed to work with each other, though. You can start a project in iLife and kick each component back and forth between each app and your project stays in sync between each app. Nothing in Windows provides this same kind of experience. You can go to a store and buy a Mac and a camera, shoot footage, hook it up to your Mac, edit it in iMovie, kick it to GarageBand and score it, kick it back to iMovie where you export it in a web format and use iWeb to make a web site for it, kick it to iDVD and put it to DVD. Seamlessly.

MusicMatch is atrocious. I don't know how anyone can use that software, and I think everyone here will agree with me. I'm not saying that from a "my software is better than yours" pedestal as a half-Mac user. When I was 13 and I bought a new HP and it came with MusicMatch I couldn't fucking stand it and discovered Winamp.

iTunes is not a media player. It's a media library manager. If you treat it like a media player you will be very disappointed.

- They couldn't give me a single example of a Mac playing / ripping CD's and movies, gaming, or browsing the web. "IE sucks!" Yeah, no shit. Ever hear of FireFox? It's free. "But the Mac has Office!" Yeah, Office '07, the worst version to date. PC's have it too, by the way. "Mac's have games!" PC's have more.

Huh? iTunes plays and rips CDs. Play movies with DVD Player, rip movies with MacTheRipper (Mac equivalent of DVDShrink) or Handbrake.

Safari is faster than all of the mainstream browsers and passes the Acid2 rendering test (the only other mainstream browser that does is Opera). Safari does lack in customization, though.

The Mac does not have Office '07. The latest release of Office released on Mac is Office:mac 2004. Microsoft has been delaying on the newest version, but Office:mac 2008 should be released in January. The Mac Offices aren't the same as the PC versions; they're not just ports. I prefer the Mac versions.

- PC's get viruses: Haven't had one in years, even using only a monthly virus scan from symantec, not even real-time. Mac's might not need virus protection, but they sure need failed update protection. My friend has a G4 macbook that always has issues, and they always come from failed updates. And he buys an OS every year.

No idea what you're talking about here.

The aforementioned issue doesn't apply to you because you probably have more common sense than to become infected. Be aware that your system has holes, though.

- No ActiveSync - I'm not buying an IPhone to match an IBook. My PocketPC's about the best PC I've ever had. 1 or 2 novelty features aside, it does everything an IPhone does, and is about 2 years older. It's also just as fast on the web. They are both on the same GSM networks.

iBooks don't exist anymore.

There are (admittedly third party) syncing apps for PocketPCs. There's the Apple-provided iSync for other devices, though.

They aren't more stable.

OS X is far more stable than Windows is.

If you're someone who is happy with getting functionality out of cheap devices, then Macs aren't for you. Apple is about making devices with the best interface possible and as easily used as possible. Apple is about the best experience. You will probably pay more, but you will have a better experience. It's not about increased functionality; it's about how that functionality is delivered.

[Roofus]

It's just a computer. Use the one you like.

[Smurph]

Get a Mac. Macs are great. Ever since I got my iMac I have been more confident about my sexual feelings towards men, and in general it just works! Macs are great. Who needs to update hardware when you don't need to? I'm fine playing no games and using a kernel which has been stabbed in the face several times because I give into corporate pressure and think I am hip by using a Mac. I love my iMac. It does everything. I can edit videos, surf the internet, make pretty pictures, uh.. edit videos! I can do everything! Who needs windows when Apple does it fall for you? I love my Macintosh. It's intuitive and easy to use. It's
the best looking interface in my opinion, completely disregarding that Beryl, Compiz, and all forks/variants/combinations look better. As an artist I find Macs better because they support the same screen resolution as Windows, Linux, BSD and everything else, giving me much more room to be productive in!

Oh wait.

[fatheadpi]

I'd quote my post, but I've already had my wall of text for the day, so @ darc:

$650 on XP and Vista? While I havent' seen all the vista versions, I thought XP didn't break the $200 barrier. Though I can't imagine why anyone would pay for Vista. Unless your PC was so powerful you had to slow it down.

Thanks for clarifying the dual-OS thing, what I posted was my understanding of it. My friend is wondering what he can do to get windows functionallity on his G4 without shelling out more cash, as he's trying to game with all of his friend that own PC's. I dunno what type of chip his book runs.

For the ILife bit, what do you mean kick a project back and forth? What the hell kind of project would need to go back and forth? If I'm working on a word document, I'm gonna do it in word. If I want to rip a CD, I'll use MusicMatch. I'm guessing this is aimed more at making your own music / DVD titles, maybe?

ITunes = "Media Library Solution"? Huh? I don't quite get what you're after here. MMJB always did a fine job of knowing where my music was.

Point to you on having Office 04. Seriously, Office 07 BLOWS.

The Virus comment comes from the same crap I hear in every Mac store I go into. That's the # 1 or # 2 selling point I get. I'm aware that PC's have holes. Was poking around on some Mac sites earlier looking for some Windows emulation ideas, and it seems Macs have holes too.

As for your last comment, maybe there's some great point that I'm missing, but:

If a PC games, rips / burns / plays tunes / DVD's, browses the web, and a Mac does all this as well, but the PC is considerably cheaper, I'm not seeing the point in using a Mac.

[Ex-Cyber]

$650 on XP and Vista? While I havent' seen all the vista versions, I thought XP didn't break the $200 barrier.

It's a bit hard to compare because Windows comes in so many "editions" and license flavors. As for XP breaking $200, standard pricing for XP Pro retail is $300. OEM versions are cheaper, but the license forbids moving it to another machine (although MS seems reluctant to actually enforce this).

[melancholy]

- PC's get viruses: Haven't had one in years, even using only a monthly virus scan from symantec, not even real-time. Mac's might not need virus protection, but they sure need failed update protection. My friend has a G4 macbook that always has issues, and they always come from failed updates. And he buys an OS every year.

No idea what you're talking about here.

The aforementioned issue doesn't apply to you because you probably have more common sense than to become infected. Be aware that your system has holes, though.

That's basically the same thing I always hear from Mac fanatics too. It's like the main battlecry of Mac owners here, "your PC gets viruses!" I haven't had a virus...well...ever. But some people around campus insist I must get viruses solely because I'm on a PC. In fact, I met one guy who thought simply connecting a PC to the internet automatically infected your computer. He simply refused to believe I have never had a virus.

- Any I-app > all of the 100's of PC apps you can get to do the same thing. Not true. I hate I-Tunes, and I loathe the fact that every player tries to emulate it. I got exactly what I wanted / needed 10 years ago when I bought MusicMatch 4.5, and it only got better up to 7.5. Hell, the HTC Audio Manager on my PocketPC does a better job of playing music than the ITunes I downloaded. Plus, their music store sucks. I am also not paying a buck a track, especially when I don't get to pick the format. Record companies might hate stores like AllOfMP3, but they really hit the nail on the head in terms of what the modern consumer wants. No BS copyright nonsense, and control over the format.

I'm not trying to pick a side here or anything, but damn. That is the worst argument for Windows I have ever heard. MusicMatch? That program would be the example people bring up in support of iTunes.

- They couldn't give me a single example of a Mac playing / ripping CD's and movies, gaming, or browsing the web. "IE sucks!" Yeah, no shit. Ever hear of FireFox? It's free. "But the Mac has Office!" Yeah, Office '07, the worst version to date. PC's have it too, by the way. "Mac's have games!" PC's have more.

The Mac does not have Office '07. The latest release of Office released on Mac is Office:mac 2004. Microsoft has been delaying on the newest version, but Office:mac 2008 should be released in January. The Mac Offices aren't the same as the PC versions; they're not just ports. I prefer the Mac versions.

And be glad of that. As fatheadpi has already mentioned, Office 07 is horrible. I had it installed for a week before being totally fed up with the entire thing. They took the perfectly fine Office interface and said, "Hey, instead of menus, why not add a big ass bar to the top and make every damn option a button instead?" I've never seen such a mess of an interface. And so, in that respect, Office 2004 for Mac is actually a benefit.


Now, I do have a question for you, Darc, or really anybody that knows Macs. My main hook on the PC is that I can game on it. There are just so many games that I play that are not available on Mac. Can you add video cards to Macs? Like, could I take my 8800GTS and put it inside a Mac, so that I could have OSX for my design and general web browsing needs, then boot into Windows for Bioshock and Half-Life 2? Honest question.

[|darc|]

$650 on XP and Vista? While I havent' seen all the vista versions, I thought XP didn't break the $200 barrier. Though I can't imagine why anyone would pay for Vista. Unless your PC was so powerful you had to slow it down.

Windows XP Professional costed $300 at launch. Windows Vista Ultimate costs a little more than that.

The reason I am quoting the most expensive editions is because they only make one version of OS X for desktops and that one includes the same features as the Pro and Ultimate versions of XP/Vista.

Yeah, Vista is pretty bad. I used it for a few months on my desktop and went back to XP. But ultimately Vista is the way forward. I know many people have used Win2K for years just fine, and many people will be using XP for years to come. The problem is that eventually computing will move forward and you will need Vista. I am sure that Vista will get better after some SPs, though...

Also, if you want to go into the whole "not paying for it" thing in a piracy way, no version of OS X has ever had any form of copy protection. No serial keys. No activation. No genuine "advantage." Just pop the disc in and install.

Thanks for clarifying the dual-OS thing, what I posted was my understanding of it. My friend is wondering what he can do to get windows functionallity on his G4 without shelling out more cash, as he's trying to game with all of his friend that own PC's. I dunno what type of chip his book runs.

His G4 will not be able to run Windows without Microsoft Virtual PC. Unfortunately, unlike Parallels Desktop and VMware Fusion (for Intel Macs), and VMware Workstation and Virtual PC for Windows, which all use virtualization, Virtual PC is a full x86 emulator, so it will be slow. And doesn't support 3D acceleration like Parallels and Fusion do, either. So he's shit out of luck.

For the ILife bit, what do you mean kick a project back and forth? What the hell kind of project would need to go back and forth? If I'm working on a word document, I'm gonna do it in word. If I want to rip a CD, I'll use MusicMatch. I'm guessing this is aimed more at making your own music / DVD titles, maybe?

Yes, that's what I was talking about (hence going to the store and buying a camera and shooting footage....).

ITunes = "Media Library Solution"? Huh? I don't quite get what you're after here. MMJB always did a fine job of knowing where my music was.

A lot of people complain about iTunes because they want to use it as just as a media player (double click an mp3 and play it, and when you've closed iTunes, nothing has changed). But iTunes puts it into your library, etc. I don't know if that's what you found problematic with it, but that's what most people complain about. But iTunes is just not a media player, it's a content manager that happens to play media too. I think you would like it much better than MMJB if you gave it a better chance and you use your media player for library management.

The Virus comment comes from the same crap I hear in every Mac store I go into. That's the # 1 or # 2 selling point I get. I'm aware that PC's have holes. Was poking around on some Mac sites earlier looking for some Windows emulation ideas, and it seems Macs have holes too.

I'm not going to say they don't have holes, because every OS has holes. But there has yet to be a virus for OS X. And before anyone starts with the "well, that's because no one uses Macs so hackers don't target it" argument, that's not a valid argument because Macs have had trojans (like three or four and they never made it far in the wild). Trojans as in a program you download that insists it's going to do something it really won't, asks you for your password, and then gains superuser access and deletes everything or causes some sort of damage. No OS can prevent that from happening, if the user is stupid enough to give the malware superuser access.

As for your last comment, maybe there's some great point that I'm missing, but:

If a PC games, rips / burns / plays tunes / DVD's, browses the web, and a Mac does all this as well, but the PC is considerably cheaper, I'm not seeing the point in using a Mac.

Because the Mac is easier and more pleasant to use. And I don't mean that from a "duhhh i'm too stupid to figure out how to use a PC" standpoint, I mean that from a no-hassle standpoint. Granted, you lose some configurability.

That's basically the same thing I always hear from Mac fanatics too. It's like the main battlecry of Mac owners here, "your PC gets viruses!" I haven't had a virus...well...ever. But some people around campus insist I must get viruses solely because I'm on a PC. In fact, I met one guy who thought simply connecting a PC to the internet automatically infected your computer. He simply refused to believe I have never had a virus.

That does happen! Well, sort of. That's exactly what worms do. I can't find the link because any Google search queries relating to XP and security return way too many results, but I once read an article where someone installed a brand new copy of launch XP onto a PC that wasn't behind a firewall and within a few minutes it was crippled from viruses. If you don't keep your PC updated, this will happen. It's gotten a whole lot better, though.

Macs also don't really have malware/spyware either, but you can't really say this is the fault of Windows that much.

Now, I do have a question for you, Darc, or really anybody that knows Macs. My main hook on the PC is that I can game on it. There are just so many games that I play that are not available on Mac. Can you add video cards to Macs? Like, could I take my 8800GTS and put it inside a Mac, so that I could have OSX for my design and general web browsing needs, then boot into Windows for Bioshock and Half-Life 2? Honest question.

Yes, you can add video cards to Macs like that, but unfortunately, the only tower Mac available is the Mac Pro, which costs too much money for most people, because it's strictly a pro machine. Its price doesn't have anything to do with the idea that Macs are too expensive, it's just that the components in the Mac Pro are those extremely expensive components that you wonder who the fuck would ever buy that, like $800 processors on NewEgg (you can price the exact same components on NewEgg and come out that the Mac Pro is cheaper than building it).

I still use a self-built PC desktop because of this gaping hole in the Mac lineup (that and I don't have any money to spend).

I'm fine playing no games

I'll take the bait.

Macs have plenty of games. It's definitely not an option for a gamer, but for most casual users it has the games they like. Many EA titles are being developed for it (I think all new EA releases?), all id games make it to Mac (and Linux), and there are many other titles as well (like WoW).

and using a kernel which has been stabbed in the face several times

What's wrong with OS X's kernel? It works great and it's open source.

I can edit videos, surf the internet, make pretty pictures, uh.. edit videos! I can do everything! Who needs windows when Apple does it fall for you? I love my Macintosh. It's intuitive and easy to use. It's the best looking interface in my opinion, completely disregarding that Beryl, Compiz, and all forks/variants/combinations look better. As an artist I find Macs better because they support the same screen resolution as Windows, Linux, BSD and everything else, giving me much more room to be productive in!

Unfortunately you picked one detail of every other OS and forgot to remember that you need to have all these features on one OS at the same time. How are you going to use Beryl and Photoshop at the same time?

And Macs being better for certain tasks has nothing to do with screen resolution...


Just a bit of background: I have used Windows since I was 6 years old. I have dabbled with Linux since about 2001. I stranded myself on Gentoo Linux for months to see if I could survive without Windows so I can make the ethical move to an open source platform. The first time I had ever used a Macintosh OS was in 2004 when PearPC was released and I emulated it at 1fps. I became interested in the platform, so I invested $380 in a broken eMac and fixed it up to use as a pet computer. Because I play games I thought I wouldn't ever consider using Macs as my primary platform. Since the Intel transition, I don't see any reason for me to buy a computer other than an Apple besides for a custom situation. I wouldn't consider myself an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the definition of fanboy. I just find most people who bash Macs do so because they've never used them for long enough to appreciate the platform and they are very misinformed.

[melancholy]

Ya know, I'm kinda glad I followed this topic. I've formed a new opinion of both Windows and OSX from some of the things said here. Sure, most of you will probably just see it as bickering, but I think I understand both sides of the fence now.

[|darc|]

Ya know, I'm kinda glad I followed this topic. I've formed a new opinion of both Windows and OSX from some of the things said here. Sure, most of you will probably just see it as bickering, but I think I understand both sides of the fence now.

Well, to give some merit to my opinions, I'll tell you what I hate about Macs.

There are two things that lead to this idea that Mac owners have to pay a premium for Apple hardware.

The first is the update cycle. To make it easier for someone to decide what computer they might need, there are only a few models. I can name every Mac model off of the top of my head: the desktops are Mac mini, iMac, Mac Pro; the laptops are the MacBook and MacBook Pro, and the rack-mount server is the Xserve. Try to do that with Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, etc. Normal PC manufacturers come out with a model of computer, and when it gradually becomes more obsolete, it gets price cuts. A Dell XYZ-123 model is released at $1,500, then it drops to $1,250 and simultaneously Dell releases the XYZ-124, then it becomes $1,000, etc. Not so with Apple. For laptops, there's always just the MacBook. It's always $1,100. They update the hardware in it every few months, which means that by the time it's due for an update, the hardware is pretty crap for its price. You need to know when to buy. On the other hand, you can also pick up some pretty sweet hardware at a good price on Apple's refurb store, and there's never anything more wrong than usual with the refurbs (they've been through quality assurance twice, after all).

But for normal people, this update cycle makes it easier to choose a computer. But when people are arguing about Macs, it makes them look bad because if a model is nearing the end of its cycle, it will have poor value. Apple is not marking up the hardware. It's just old.

Second thing is the lack of custom hardware. The Mac mini and iMac are great computers, but I want a fucking customizable consumer-level tower. Nope. They don't make one. Sure, you can upgrade some components like memory in the those models, but they're not fully configurable. The cheapest fully-configurable model is the $2000+ Mac Pro. Or let's say you want a laptop with an expansion slot. The cheapest laptop with an expansion slot is the $2000+ MacBook Pro. You generally get a good deal for what you pay for, but if you happen to want just an expansion slot, you can't get a MacBook with an expansion slot, you have to buy a larger display, backlit keyboard, larger hard drive, more memory, better graphics chipset, faster processor, etc. just to get an expansion slot. Which also makes people think that Macs are expensive.

[Ex-Cyber]

you can price the exact same components on NewEgg and come out that the Mac Pro is cheaper than building it.

I actually tried this a little while ago, and couldn't find a motherboard that was really equivalent (i.e. same chipset and PCIe slot configuration). However I can second that the Mac Pro would actually have been cheaper.