Different Graphics on the DC.

phisejr · Post by **phisejr** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:23 pm

i was wondering is the DC can handle 3D Vectors or Flash Graphics on the system.

Juan · Post by **Juan** » Thu May 03, 2007 2:42 pm

Aren't CVS2s cut scenes made in flash?

phisejr · Post by **phisejr** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:17 pm

Cut scenes arent Gamepley though they maybe flash, but cutscenes arent actually the game itself, because they could be formated as video. CG is different from Gameplay.

Im talking about Gameplay itself.

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:55 am

The Planetweb browser supports Flash 4, but the DC doesn't have native support for it through hardware.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:36 am

First off, what exactly do you mean by "3D Vectors"? Vector-based graphics usually implies that the graphics are represented by either geometric shapes (lines, squares, polygons, circles), mathematical equations (curves, surfaces), or some combination of the two.

Normal 3D graphics, which use 3D polygons (or mathematical surfaces which are translated into polygons) to model shapes, and mathematical equations to transform, distort, or animate them, would pretty much be "3D Vectors". So in that respect, the Dreamcast was built around them.

If you mean simply "like Flash", then no. The Dreamcast doesn't have anything particularly designed to draw 2D vector graphics, but neither does a PC. Drawing typically happens in software, which of course the Dreamcast can handle. The question is simply one of speed - Flash itself is notoriously slow, and the Dreamcast wasn't really designed to do software rendering. It was designed to offload as much work as possible to it's graphics hardware.

It is possible to use 3D graphics hardware to draw 2D vector graphics at much higher speed. However, the Dreamcast hardware lacks most of the capabilities that are required to do this properly, and the design of the graphics hardware really isn't a good fit for this kind of work. On a modern PC graphics card, it's possible to use shaders to cover most of it, but of course the Dreamcast doesn't have shaders.

On something like the DC, there's not really much reason to use 2D vector graphics anyway. Instead, one can use 2D sprites, use the 3D hardware to render them, and apply any appropriate rotation, scaling, distortions, and blending effects. This actually looks surprisingly good on a Dreamcast when done properly.

The most obvious recent example of this kind of rendering technique is Super Paper Mario - it uses sprites which can be distorted by the Wii's 3D hardware, in combination with some 3D, some very simple 2D vector graphics (lines, mostly), and it looks like at least some of the animations are made by moving pieces of the sprite around independently, like 3D games do with models.

MapleBuster · Post by **MapleBuster** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:38 am

A Few other browser have flash but whether it is Flash 4 or not I'm not sure.

Many Dreamcast games have mpeg sofdec running within the game as well as for cutscenes. Space Channel 5 is the best example.

Sega Swirl is Pop mail game. I haven't a clue what processes or graphics are involved but it does have the feel of a Flash game.

MapleBuster · Post by **MapleBuster** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:43 am

Does Rez have 3d vector graphics ?. At least they look like 3d vector graphics

phisejr · Post by **phisejr** » Sun May 06, 2007 1:04 am

BlackAura wrote:First off, what exactly do you mean by "3D Vectors"? Vector-based graphics usually implies that the graphics are represented by either geometric shapes (lines, squares, polygons, circles), mathematical equations (curves, surfaces), or some combination of the two.

Google it and you'll find out the differences

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Sun May 06, 2007 2:05 am

BA needs to google nothing! He is like DCEmu's very own encyclopedia, he knows EVERYTHING!

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Sun May 06, 2007 2:57 am

phisejr wrote:Google it and you'll find out the differences

OK, smartass.

In Mathematics, we have the concept of vectors. These are values that have both a magnitude and direction, such as velocity. This is in contrast to normal numbers, known as scalars, which have only a magnitude. A 3D vector is a vector that has three dimensions, such as velocity or position in 3D space.

3D graphics is, of course, based around 3D vectors, along with 3D and 4D matrices, quaternions, and plenty of other maths.

This is obviously not what you mean.

Let's have a look through the rest of Google's search results...

Maths... maths... application of maths to 3D graphics... Learning maths... maths... research papers... maths... vectors in 3D graphics again... and again... more maths... VRML stuff... an "OMG maths is so hard" page... more maths...

The only instance of anyone using the phrase "3D Vectors" to refer to a kind of graphics is some 3D stuff for Flash. Which is just regular 3D wireframe graphics, presumably because Flash has no ability to render textured polygons.

Not even Wikipedia knows what you're talking about.

So, only you can answer this - what exactly are you going on about?

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:55 am

I freaking love you BA!

Post by **|darc|** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:14 am

MapleBuster · Post by **MapleBuster** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:06 am

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing you with an idea to explore the possibility of re-releasing that greatest of all undead consoles, The Vetrex. I hope and trust my plea will not fall on dead ears. I have included for your perusal some models to be incorporated into my new Vetrex game idea. It is to be called Pyramid Wars:Surrender to the Stickman.

I look forward to your reply,

Vector Meldrew.

phisejr · Post by **phisejr** » Sun May 06, 2007 8:43 pm

MapleBuster wrote: Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing you with an idea to explore the possibility of re-releasing that greatest of all undead consoles, The Vetrex. I hope and trust my plea will not fall on dead ears. I have included for your perusal some models to be incorporated into my new Vetrex game idea. It is to be called Pyramid Wars:Surrender to the Stickman.

I look forward to your reply,

Vector Meldrew.

My reply ?

3D Vectors is different from 3D animation 3D vectors is made from objects vs 3D we kno as is made by polygons pixel by pixel.

Post by **|darc|** » Sun May 06, 2007 8:54 pm

phisejr wrote:
MapleBuster wrote: Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing you with an idea to explore the possibility of re-releasing that greatest of all undead consoles, The Vetrex. I hope and trust my plea will not fall on dead ears. I have included for your perusal some models to be incorporated into my new Vetrex game idea. It is to be called Pyramid Wars:Surrender to the Stickman.

I look forward to your reply,

Vector Meldrew.

My reply ?

3D Vectors is different from 3D animation 3D vectors is made from objects vs 3D we kno as is made by polygons pixel by pixel.

toastman · Post by **toastman** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:10 pm

phisejr wrote:
MapleBuster wrote: Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing you with an idea to explore the possibility of re-releasing that greatest of all undead consoles, The Vetrex. I hope and trust my plea will not fall on dead ears. I have included for your perusal some models to be incorporated into my new Vetrex game idea. It is to be called Pyramid Wars:Surrender to the Stickman.

I look forward to your reply,

Vector Meldrew.

My reply ?

3D Vectors is different from 3D animation 3D vectors is made from objects vs 3D we kno as is made by polygons pixel by pixel.

You really don't understand what you are talking about, do you? BA gave you a pretty good lay explanation of vectors and how they apply in a 3D space and all you can reply with is "No, it's different".
HOW is it different?
And no matter what, you will have to deal with rasterization, because the television is raster display.

lackofsense · Post by **lackofsense** » Mon May 07, 2007 12:10 am

In Soviet Russia, dreamcast renders you!

MapleBuster · Post by **MapleBuster** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:14 am

lackofsense wrote:In Soviet Russia, dreamcast renders you!

..................unconcious.

rasterization

Haven't heard that word for a while !

Splines, Polylines

Oh BA, I wish you'd been around when I was trying to do my maths homework !

DaMadFiddler · Post by **DaMadFiddler** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:42 am

Since phasejr seems so intent on getting this, that, and the other done, and obviously has such a clear understanding of how things work and what should be done...

I vote BA sends him all the source code for his various projects so that phasejr can improve and finish it.

Sweater Fish · Post by **Sweater Fish** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:35 pm

phisejr wrote:
MapleBuster wrote::type: Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing you with an idea to explore the possibility of re-releasing that greatest of all undead consoles, The Vetrex. I hope and trust my plea will not fall on dead ears. I have included for your perusal some models to be incorporated into my new Vetrex game idea. It is to be called Pyramid Wars:Surrender to the Stickman.

I look forward to your reply,

Vector Meldrew.

:stickdance: :surrender:
My reply ?

Are you with the Milton Bradley Company?

toastman wrote:And no matter what, you will have to deal with rasterization, because the television is raster display.

Actually, the Vectrex and vector graphics arcade games like Asteroids or Tempest do not use a raster display. The monitors used are still CRT, but the vector lines in those systems are drawn in a fundamentally different way from a television or other video monitor.

...word is bondage...