Unofficial "Matrix: Revolutions" Rant/Rave Thread

butters · Post by **butters** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:58 am

Hawq wrote:
toastman wrote:
Hawq wrote:
toastman wrote:
Ender wrote:If Smith was the "antione" then shouldn't the machines have won?

Are you one of those people that think that Luke was the hero and main character of the Star Wars movies? One who thinks that Luke was the one prophesised?
What, you think Anakin is the one who restores the balance?
Think about it for a minute. The Jedi were all good, light side warriors. The Sith are all dark side. Luke is probably the only one to have gone into the dark side and pull himself out. (do not quote Extended Universe crap, as far as Lucas is concerned, it's not canon)
Hmm so at what point did Luke go Dark side then in the original trilogy exactly? or were you watching a differant film? actually the point you're making about going dark then light again takes place in the books after Jedi so you shot yourself in the foot with that one.
When he goes totally nutso in the last duel with Vader and chops off his hand. It is only through his anger and hate that he is able to defeat Vader (as the Emperor alludes to). I was watching, thank you very much.

Tapew0rm wrote:Not to forget the part where he's in training and see's Vader and lets his anger control him.
Those were brief bouts of anger not a full on trip to the dark side, as in the books set after Jedi, so shouldnt really count

But he does touch the dark side when he fights Vader in front of the Emperor. That's how he was able to strike down Vader, was through his anger.

ShadowofBob · Post by **ShadowofBob** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:09 pm

arrowhead wrote:the..movie..was..awesome...It was almost so good I wanted to cry when it was over, and im 23. Anyway, I dont know why yous guys have so many unanswered questions? The only one I have is if Neo is dead or alive. Anyway, you all should go see it if you havent, it rocks hard.

Well, I guess the questions that I wonder about are probably there to leave the series open to sequels. The one breif bit with the architecht was unsetlling. Also, they never really say what happens once the war is over. Do the humans stay in Zion or do they move to the surface? Just little things like this. Because of them I'm almost certain there will be more Matrix movies. But because they killed Neo and Trinity it will be easier to use different characters.

Hawq · Post by **Hawq** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:30 pm

butters wrote:
Hawq wrote:
toastman wrote:
Hawq wrote:
toastman wrote:
Ender wrote:If Smith was the "antione" then shouldn't the machines have won?

Are you one of those people that think that Luke was the hero and main character of the Star Wars movies? One who thinks that Luke was the one prophesised?
What, you think Anakin is the one who restores the balance?
Think about it for a minute. The Jedi were all good, light side warriors. The Sith are all dark side. Luke is probably the only one to have gone into the dark side and pull himself out. (do not quote Extended Universe crap, as far as Lucas is concerned, it's not canon)
Hmm so at what point did Luke go Dark side then in the original trilogy exactly? or were you watching a differant film? actually the point you're making about going dark then light again takes place in the books after Jedi so you shot yourself in the foot with that one.
When he goes totally nutso in the last duel with Vader and chops off his hand. It is only through his anger and hate that he is able to defeat Vader (as the Emperor alludes to). I was watching, thank you very much.

Tapew0rm wrote:Not to forget the part where he's in training and see's Vader and lets his anger control him.
Those were brief bouts of anger not a full on trip to the dark side, as in the books set after Jedi, so shouldnt really count
But he does touch the dark side when he fights Vader in front of the Emperor. That's how he was able to strike down Vader, was through his anger.

But he doesnt actually turn, he briefly gets angry then rejects going down the path to the dark side which is my point, if he never went all the way dark how could he come back from it?, he merely was tempted and resisted the temptation unlike later in the books

Post by **melancholy** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:50 pm

SuperMegatron wrote:Neo was the One Smith Purpose in the matrix was to destroy the one remember the train station with the little girl she had no purpose so she was going to be deleted when neo let smith kill him Smiths purpose in the matrix was no longer needed and thus he was deleted

I didn't get that part. I mean, the girl was going to be deleted because she had no purpose, but yet at the end it was revealed that she made the sunrise. So wouldn't that technically be a purpose?

butters · Post by **butters** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:19 pm

melancholy wrote:
SuperMegatron wrote:Neo was the One Smith Purpose in the matrix was to destroy the one remember the train station with the little girl she had no purpose so she was going to be deleted when neo let smith kill him Smiths purpose in the matrix was no longer needed and thus he was deleted
I didn't get that part. I mean, the girl was going to be deleted because she had no purpose, but yet at the end it was revealed that she made the sunrise. So wouldn't that technically be a purpose?

She is actually the result of the merger between two programs, which makes the parents both obsolete, so they were deleted.

Post by **melancholy** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:18 pm

butters wrote:
melancholy wrote:
SuperMegatron wrote:Neo was the One Smith Purpose in the matrix was to destroy the one remember the train station with the little girl she had no purpose so she was going to be deleted when neo let smith kill him Smiths purpose in the matrix was no longer needed and thus he was deleted
I didn't get that part. I mean, the girl was going to be deleted because she had no purpose, but yet at the end it was revealed that she made the sunrise. So wouldn't that technically be a purpose?
She is actually the result of the merger between two programs, which makes the parents both obsolete, so they were deleted.

...
...
...
...oh! I get it!

Mask of Destiny · Post by **Mask of Destiny** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:48 pm

I haven't read this whole thread, but I thought the movie was excellent. It didn't have a relatively pointless overly long scene like Reloaded did and it continued the theme of examining a fundamental philosophical question that was set in the first two movies. This time they examined what is perhaps the most fundamental question of all, "What is the meaning of life?" or perhaps more accurately "What is my purpose in life." A fittiing end to the trilogy.

I do believe Neo died at the end. It fits right in with the rest of the messianic references in the trilogy and the Oracle's comment about "I think we'll see him again" could have been referring to a resurrection or reincarnation. There were numberous references to Christianity and Hinduism (or is it Buddhism, I tend to get them confused).

I don't think Smith was destroyed because he had no purpose. If the machines could have deleted Smith they would have already done it. Notice that near the end of the final battle, Smith says words that are not his own, but are instead the Oracle's. This would seem to suggest that the host that he has infected has not been erased, merely suppressed and in the case of a very powerful host. The host still has some influence over what it does. I believe that Neo let himself be infected so he could destroy Smith from the inside out (much like in the first movie), perhaps with some help from the machines he was plugged into.

Anyway, I can't wait for the DVD so I can watch it again to catch all the subtle nuances of the film.

Nico0020 · Post by **Nico0020** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:04 pm

I haven't read this whole thread, but I thought the movie was excellent. It didn't have a relatively pointless overly long scene like Reloaded did and it continued the theme of examining a fundamental philosophical question that was set in the first two movies. This time they examined what is perhaps the most fundamental question of all, "What is the meaning of life?" or perhaps more accurately "What is my purpose in life." A fittiing end to the trilogy.

I do believe Neo died at the end. It fits right in with the rest of the messianic references in the trilogy and the Oracle's comment about "I think we'll see him again" could have been referring to a resurrection or reincarnation. There were numberous references to Christianity and Hinduism (or is it Buddhism, I tend to get them confused).

I don't think Smith was destroyed because he had no purpose. If the machines could have deleted Smith they would have already done it. Notice that near the end of the final battle, Smith says words that are not his own, but are instead the Oracle's. This would seem to suggest that the host that he has infected has not been erased, merely suppressed and in the case of a very powerful host. The host still has some influence over what it does. I believe that Neo let himself be infected so he could destroy Smith from the inside out (much like in the first movie), perhaps with some help from the machines he was plugged into.

Anyway, I can't wait for the DVD so I can watch it again to catch all the subtle nuances of the film.

I didnt read the whole thing either. since i knew it was gonna be full of people bashing the movie. It ended the way it should have ended. In the second one they refered to them having to have a peace. Neither "species" could get rid of the other.

Neo did die at the end. Neo was suppost to be the new form of jesus to say. At the end when the machines layed him down his arms were spread out like jesus. Neo had to die, the oracle told him that from the very begining. Either him or morpheous would die. And he had to choose. Same thing with trinity. She was going to die, in the 2nd one Neo just prolonged her existence.

I was very glad they didnt have 1000000000 pointless fight scenes like they did in the second one. This one was more complete. but the 1st one will always be the best. I think the 2nd and 3rd one is more for "our" generation to say. I know my mother saw it and it went right past her.

Good movie. The critics are stupid who said it wasent. It did what it was suppost to do, end the war. And thats what they were trying to do. End the war and free the human race, no slaughter the machines.

toastman · Post by **toastman** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:57 pm

Nico0020 wrote:I think the 2nd and 3rd one is more for "our" generation to say. I know my mother saw it and it went right past her.

Yes, that whole 3 year gap is a chasm that cannot be breached by the elderly.

Go to http://www.pvponline.com/rants.php3
Scott Kurtz has an excellent review up that pretty much sums up what I've been trying to figure out about this movie.
And in light of Revolutions, I can't see how Reloaded fits any more. And that's unfortunate as I kinda liked Reloaded.

userlain · Post by **userlain** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:20 pm

Revolutions didn't fit Reloaded, get it right.

Post by **|darc|** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:05 pm

SuperMegatron wrote:Neo was the One Smith Purpose in the matrix was to destroy the one remember the train station with the little girl she had no purpose so she was going to be deleted when neo let smith kill him Smiths purpose in the matrix was no longer needed and thus he was deleted

Wow! You just cleared up the plot a bunch for me. Thanks...

So that shows Neo is the one and Smith is the antione. They balance out and settle for peace.

Mask of Destiny · Post by **Mask of Destiny** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:38 pm

From the rant linked to by toastman:

1) If I'm fighting a war against machines, and I have a weapon that's 100% effective against the machines, I would have a couple lying around my home city. I would have EMP missiles, EMP belt buckles, EMP trash cans, EMP backpacks, EMP jewelry...etc. The humans already had the key to winning the war against machines and it wasn't NEO. It was Electro Magnetic Pulses.

EMPs have this nasty tendency of destroying your own electronics as well as the enemy's electronics.

2) If you have the technology to create mechs, ballistic weapons and high yield ammunition, you might have the technology to create a textile factory. Why is everyone wearing torn up clothes?

It's hard to make textiles without the raw materials. I didn't see any sheep or cotton plants down there in Zion.

4) Did everyone hooked up to the matrix die when Smith took it over? I would assume that multiplying at an exponential rate, he took over every brain of every human plugged into the matrix. What happened to them? Did they die? Like Bane?

I would imagine they lived. Neo only died because he was the conduit through which the machines destroyed Smith. Bane died from blunt force trauma, not directly as the result of being taken over by Smith.

Fly above them? Why didn't they think of that sooner? If you can just fly above them, why not drop some of those EMP paperweights directly onto machine city?

It would appear that those hover-ships they have aren't exactly meant for flying and even if it wasn't for the nasty lightning, I doubt they could stay above the cloud layer long enough to get over the machine's defenses. The only reason Neo and Trinity got so close in the first place was that Neo was blowing up most of the machines sent at them.

I'm too tired to respond to every one of his criticisms.

The logical flaws in Revolutions are relatively minor compared to the major flaw in the premise of the first movie. Humans don't make energy, they just convert energy and they aren't even 100% efficient at that so you couldn't keep them alive just by feeding them the dead. You would need some other chemical energy source to make the system work. In the first movie they said the machines used humans in combination with a form of fusion. Last I checked, fusion doesn't produce carbohydrates or proteins as a product and if they have fusion, why do they need humans in the first place?

Hawq · Post by **Hawq** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:53 pm

Mask of Destiny wrote:From the rant linked to by toastman:
1) If I'm fighting a war against machines, and I have a weapon that's 100% effective against the machines, I would have a couple lying around my home city. I would have EMP missiles, EMP belt buckles, EMP trash cans, EMP backpacks, EMP jewelry...etc. The humans already had the key to winning the war against machines and it wasn't NEO. It was Electro Magnetic Pulses.
EMPs have this nasty tendency of destroying your own electronics as well as the enemy's electronics.

A question I have about that is how come the machines are affected by emp now (when they must be more advanced than at the start) but at the start of the war when they were more primitive they survived 01 getting nuked?

Mask of Destiny wrote:From the rant linked to by toastman:
2) If you have the technology to create mechs, ballistic weapons and high yield ammunition, you might have the technology to create a textile factory. Why is everyone wearing torn up clothes?
It's hard to make textiles without the raw materials. I didn't see any sheep or cotton plants down there in Zion.

I'd think they aint got foundrys or resources to build mechs & hovercraft etc.. down there either, so wheres it all comin from?

Mask of Destiny wrote:From the rant linked to by toastman:
4) Did everyone hooked up to the matrix die when Smith took it over? I would assume that multiplying at an exponential rate, he took over every brain of every human plugged into the matrix. What happened to them? Did they die? Like Bane?
I would imagine they lived. Neo only died because he was the conduit through which the machines destroyed Smith. Bane died from blunt force trauma, not directly as the result of being taken over by Smith.

If their brain was fried by it then they would die

Mask of Destiny wrote:The logical flaws in Revolutions are relatively minor compared to the major flaw in the premise of the first movie. Humans don't make energy, they just convert energy and they aren't even 100% efficient at that so you couldn't keep them alive just by feeding them the dead. You would need some other chemical energy source to make the system work. In the first movie they said the machines used humans in combination with a form of fusion. Last I checked, fusion doesn't produce carbohydrates or proteins as a product and if they have fusion, why do they need humans in the first place?

A very good point, I was always interested as to how the machines kept going after the sky got blacked out, did they have really big packs of duracells or somethin? & they converted to human power a bit too quick, second renaissance shows them using human power during the first part of the war despite the sky having only just been blacked out shortly before

zero · Post by **zero** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:12 pm

I'd think they aint got foundrys or resources to build mechs & hovercraft etc.. down there either, so wheres it all comin from?

Id imaging that they are left over stuff and just fixed up etc, i mean by the looks of things it looks like it would be easier to find left over parts and stuff, then to find stuff to make clothes.

A question I have about that is how come the machines are affected by emp now (when they must be more advanced than at the start) but at the start of the war when they were more primitive they survived 01 getting nuked?

Well maybe they whare build so that nukes would have no effect on them?, and maybe they have no way of withstanding the emps?.

Nico0020 · Post by **Nico0020** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:32 pm

but also remember this. IT IS JUST A MOVIE.

toastman · Post by **toastman** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:51 pm

userlain wrote:Revolutions didn't fit Reloaded, get it right.

No I got it right. I don't think Reloaded fits that well in the series anymore. Anything touched upon in Reloaded was pretty much dismissed in Revolutions.
Don't try and dictate my opinion to me.

scottymac · Post by **scottymac** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:13 pm

toastman wrote:
userlain wrote:Revolutions didn't fit Reloaded, get it right.
No I got it right. I don't think Reloaded fits that well in the series anymore. Anything touched upon in Reloaded was pretty much dismissed in Revolutions.
Don't try and dictate my opinion to me.

Examples of how you came up with this theory?

toastman · Post by **toastman** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:57 am

scottymac wrote:
toastman wrote:
userlain wrote:Revolutions didn't fit Reloaded, get it right.
No I got it right. I don't think Reloaded fits that well in the series anymore. Anything touched upon in Reloaded was pretty much dismissed in Revolutions.
Don't try and dictate my opinion to me.
Examples of how you came up with this theory?

Well, I watched all three movies.
Basically what I'm saying is they could take about 30 mins from Reloaded, edit it into the Revolutions by cutting down on the final Neo/Smith fight and other exceedingly long scenes and still come out with a movie that's about 2 hours long.

Wasgo · Post by **Wasgo** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:49 pm

toastman wrote:
scottymac wrote:
toastman wrote:
userlain wrote:Revolutions didn't fit Reloaded, get it right.
No I got it right. I don't think Reloaded fits that well in the series anymore. Anything touched upon in Reloaded was pretty much dismissed in Revolutions.
Don't try and dictate my opinion to me.
Examples of how you came up with this theory?
Well, I watched all three movies.
Basically what I'm saying is they could take about 30 mins from Reloaded, edit it into the Revolutions by cutting down on the final Neo/Smith fight and other exceedingly long scenes and still come out with a movie that's about 2 hours long.

Reloaded was just there to make it a trilogy. Revolutions was by far the best of the three movies anyway.

Hawq · Post by **Hawq** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:36 pm

zero wrote:
A question I have about that is how come the machines are affected by emp now (when they must be more advanced than at the start) but at the start of the war when they were more primitive they survived 01 getting nuked?
Well maybe they whare build so that nukes would have no effect on them?, and maybe they have no way of withstanding the emps?.

A nuke sends out an emp so the machines must have had some protection from it (& thats ignoring the heat of a nuke going off which is another oddity), as the emp from a nuke hoing off would be far greater than one generated by the hovercraft jobbies it makes no sense that they can kill the machines when they survived being nuked