Do CD-Rs or whatever people call "backups" really.

[Warmachine]

I guess that can work

[bizzle]

A simple solution....get a CD-r dedicated Dreamcast and use one for commercial games and one for Homemade ones.
Lavalord

I used to run a whole crap load of homebrew on my other Dreamcast, that I've used and abused and the GD-ROM from it is still running strong. Of course that Dreamcast died, but that was just the PSU, I sold/kept the rest of the salvaged parts.

[nymus]

Remember, Dreamcast GDROM drive uses constant Angular Velocity (CAV) technology, so unlike most CD/DVDROMs, the disc spins at a constant speed. As a result, the disc motor has a longer life (I think). We only have to worry about the head.

Also, remember, that writing of data on both media begins at the center of the disc.

What does the "double density" of a GDROM refer to:

In the following figures, a space between 2 lines represents 100mb

CASE 1:
It refers to Closeness of tracks (track pitch)?

Disc Center============>Disc edge

i) CDROM
__________________________
|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
__________________________



i) GDROM
____________________
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|
____________________


In this case, distance b/w pits are same on both media. Hence 100MB will take up the same number of tracks on both media. So, if 100MB fits into 1000 tracks, we can assume that if 1000 tracks are spread across 1.5cm on a CDROM, the same 1000tracks will be spread over 0.75cm on a GDROM.

Therefore, to access our theoretical 100mb, the head will move 1.5cm on a CDROM and 0.75cm on a GDROM. Does this cause more wear?

* The only problem would come eg when streaming data. If we need 500b of audio per second from track 200 and 2kb textures from track 1200, the head will move frrom track 200 to track 1200 and back a lot. If we have a CROM in the drive, the head will work harder.


CASE 2
It refers to closeness of pits

In this case, one track on a GDROM will have more pits than on a CDROM, hence if 100MB fits into 1000tracks on a CDROM, the same 100mb will fit into 500 tracks on a GDROM. So, if this is the case, there will be times when the head will not need to move (on a GDROM) sincee all required data will be on one track. In this case, the head will definitely work harder on a CDROM than a GDROM.

Note, carefully that I do not know which of the above is employed on a GDROM and also note that there are other factors that affect read times and movements eg:

a) error correction data: - this is extra data used by iso filesystems to enable scratched/corrupt data to be recovered by storing them in multiple places. As a result, if the GDROM is scratched (and GDROMs a re known to be more sensitive to scratches) the disc will have to look for a "backup" of the data elsewhere on the disc, causing it to work harder.

b) The tracks on an optical disc aren't exactly "tracks" but one long spiral from the center of the disc to the outer edge so I'm not sure whether or not the head simply follows the spiral until the needed data is found.

c) Is this "hack" really efficient? If the drive was meant to read CDROM drives, how ell does it read GDROM drives? Maybe it "misses" data more often while reading a GDROM that while reading a CDROM.

Anyway, I don't hink we should worry about this so much because:

- the head was built for this kind of thing.
- the head is working less that it was meant to since the GDROM works at half of CDROM speed (which the head was built for) in order to succeed in fooling the controllers that they are reading from a CDROM.

[MystiK]

i didnt even think about it like that lol. ''backups are horrible, homebrew? right on!" lol It's the same damn thing on a CD-R so they do the same amount of 'damage'. Reading an original GD-ROM disk does 'damage' too if you think about it, just less. CD-R's cause more damage cuz they were never intended to be read on the DC, but that's the price you pay for getting the game for free. What in the hell more could you want?

[SlammedNiss]

This isn't proof. This is just somebody's interpretations on what they think will happen. I want to see proof that a backup/homebrew has indeed ruined a DC faster than it would otherwise. Nobody has any, nobody ever will. Electronics will wear out at any given time. You can have two of the exact same unit, and one will break before the other. There are too many parts within an electronic circuit board that is beyond the manufacturer's control.

Look at a GDROM (I presume you do actually have one for comparison).
See that thick ring round the outside? That is where the data lies for the DC game.
Look at a CDROM, see the entire area? That's where the data lies for a rip.

Now, the GDROM has its data closer together. The stepping mechanism (the motor and little plastic gears that make the read head move) don't have to travel as much when reading the tight-packed data from the GD as the CD.

Now, being that it is a mechanical device, the simple act of actually using it will cause it to wear and eventually break down and the more you use it, the quicker it will break.
Whether this, ever so slightly, increased usage of the drive to load from a CD is significant or not is still open to debate though.

Oh and for what it's worth, some commercial games do seem to use the drive excessively ingame-- soul calibur being the prominent example so I wouldn't worry about a DC drive dieing anytime soon.

[az_bont]

The reason peple say homebrew doesn't damage much is because something like NesterDC loads a binary, a few images, and a ROM, all less than 1MB. The background music for a commercial games alone could be 20 or 30MB per level.

[ScreamCast]

the simple answer is this: Backups ARE worse then originals, does it matter though? NO! You can use backups and NO originals forever, and your DC will still last a LONG time if you take care of it. People on this board are being EXTREMELY technical, and the technical answer is yes it's worse, but the real life answer, is that it doesn't make a real difference. If you wish to not use backups, it should be cause you hate piracy, not because of bs technicalities used to scare you.

BTW, what is often left out is, a lot of original games will make the laser work harder then other ripped games. For example, Soul Calibur GD may make your laser work much harder then Sonic Adventure rip.

[Kyosuke]

Using homebrews and backups will wear it out faster, because it will have to move farther because the info on a CD is more spread out than on a GD. there's probably a difference of a few centimeters, and some GDs use up the whole disc anyways so the damage is marginal and nothing to worry about unless you're absolutely die hard about getting maybe another week out of your Dreamcast. Screw this, I'm gonna go use LinuxDC.

[SlammedNiss]

Using homebrews and backups will wear it out faster,

And you can prove this how? Some documentation? I doubt it. It's all about what you've been taught. If you've been taught to believe it will wear out faster, then by god, it will wear out faster.

[Kyosuke]

no.....I'm serious...the reason a GDRom can hold more info on the same size disc is because it's put closer together (that's just common sense). So the same info on a CD-R will be more spread out, more common sense, right? Right. But like I said, it's marginal and totaly ignorable, nothing to pay any attention to. a lot of DC games use up the whole disc anyhow, making work just has hard, it's the same as playing music CDs......

[az_bont]

Common sense dictates that if something is used more, it will wear out sooner. But then, a 40-minute CD will wear down a CD player half as much as an 80-minute CD, but do we all use only 40-minute CDs for fears of prematurely wearing out our CD player's lasers/motors?

[-Johnick-]

Only way to totally prove it would be to crack open a DC, stick an ohm-meter on the GD rom pot while its reading an original and then a backup of the same game, then compare the readings.

[jjoepr]

Well I've been running all sorts of CD-Rs on mine for years. No Problems yet but if A problem should come up I just fire up another one of my dreamcasts. And if they burn out Buy another. |/\|

[|darc|]

1. CD-R backups will wear the GD-ROM drive more than GD-ROMs due to the fact that CD-R backups tend to be less organized. Also, they are less dense, and makes more wear and tear. In the case of a badly burnt DC game (which is the case most of the time) you can hear the GD-ROM scanning back and forth on the CD-R. You will not hear this on a GD-ROM (except sometimes on a really shit game, and it's not even that much.). Period. Believe whatever you want, but I am absolutely positive that I am correct. Am I discouraging you from using CD-R backups? In my opinion you shouldn't use them, but I am *not* saying not to based on the wear-n-tear issue. The wear-n-tear will not kill your DC automatically, but it will shorten the life of the DC. DCs are cheap anyway, and getting a second DC is probably cheaper then buying the games, so I don't see how this argument would be valid in changing warezer's minds..

2. Homebrew CDs can or cannot be bad for your DC. There are two cases of homebrew. The first case is a simple homebrew game. The simple (most) homebrew games are less than a few megs, and the GD-ROM drive only has to read these few megs and that's it: The disk will stop spinning after a while, or slow down, and that's that. You're playing the game, and the disk isn't doing anything. This holds true for emulators, also, as the DC will load the Emulator and the ROM you are playing in RAM and the disk will stop spinning after a while. The second case of homebrew is a little worse, but luckily it is less common. A bigger homebrew game, like SmashDC, does do a bit of scanning and loading, and the effects of this can be a little negative, but it isn't enough to worry about, because once the game is loaded, it's finished, just like the first case in homebrew games. Now, let's observe a potential third case of homebrew. If someone did wind up coming out with a homebrew game that rivaled a full commercial game, it *would* have the wear-n-tear problem, because it is essentially the same thing. Note that Feet of Fury really doesn't have this problem because it's a generally small game. BTW, look at Mr. Driller. It is 8mb. A backup of Mr.Driller will not harm the DC, because it would fall into the category of Homebrew 1 (if it was homebrew). But this is only one rare occasion.

3. Music CDs will not do bad wear-n-tear on your DC like CD-R backups will. Why? because it only streams a song off of the disk, and doesn't have to load anything. In the case of CD-R backups, the game constantly needs things to be read off the disk, loading times, constant scanning of the disk, etc. while Music CDs just have to be streamed. The GD head only needs to be moved across the disk once to play a whole CD from start to finish. CD-R backups need to be read back and forth, over and over.

Listen to what I say, I speak the truth.

[nymus]

Why do people keep saying "DCs are cheap anyway". It's very degrading to our beloved system.

[az_bont]

Why do people keep saying "DCs are cheap anyway". It's very degrading to our beloved system.

The Dreamcast is an inexpensive console. That's just a fact.

[CoasterKing]

Why do people keep saying "DCs are cheap anyway". It's very degrading to our beloved system.

The Dreamcast is an inexpensive console. That's just a fact.

Yeah cheap in a good sense. Not in a Jordon (Katie Price) sense.

[ShadowofBob]

Some Homebrew however can harm your DC. Try Mr. Siggler's SmashTV game and listen to your Dreamcast.

[az_bont]

Some Homebrew however can harm your DC. Try Mr. Siggler's SmashTV game and listen to your Dreamcast.

There is a RomDisc version which should be a lot easier on your Dreamcast that was created by burnerO.

[Rand Linden]

I wrote a fairly long post a while back that answers your questions...

Search is your friend.

Rand.