Quake DC legality issues

Swiss_Cheeseman · Post by **Swiss_Cheeseman** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 1:50 am

You do realise that the version of Quake DC that you have is most likely illegal. It was made using a non open version of the quake source code, and compiled/developed with wince dev tools.

Wasgo · Post by **Wasgo** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:23 am

Here's the deal. The guys that wrote it don't care, and id software doesn't care. For it to actually violate copyright laws, or licensing agreements, one of those two parties would have to object. It's the one area of the law where it's not actually a crime until prosecuted.

clessoulis · Post by **clessoulis** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:56 am

And where all happy for it.

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:45 am

Swiss_Cheeseman wrote:You do realise that the version of Quake DC that you have is most likely illegal. It was made using a non open version of the quake source code, and compiled/developed with wince dev tools.

No its not.

The source code for Titanium Studios port of Quake was freely available to everyone who had a sega development kit on their "developers channel" - how is that a "non open version"? the fact that source was compiled and released without source included doesn't automatically make it illegal you know.

For the record, you can download a free WinCE compiler for PocketPC which includes SH4 as an output target platform from microsofts website so the fact its made in WinCE doesnt make it illegal either.

We're not going to be accusing Sintendo, Boob!boy, DreamSpec and GypPlay of being illegal any time soon either.

reaper2k2 · Post by **reaper2k2** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:49 pm

its only illegal when you feel like it

i see how things work now if i dev my 3d rpg in wince

will you say its illegal

iam only dev it for winx9 pc now but i could dev it for dreamcast if i used wince

when the pc version is finshed ill give the source may be some one can port it.........

Sub Woofer · Post by **Sub Woofer** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 3:54 am

Trust me, we've had this conversation before.

Originally it contained the full version of Quake (many a moons ago) and we were requested by ID Software to remove it, which we did with no quams.
After awhile, some bright individual learnt how to distribute it with the Quake shareware files, which I beleive was discussed with ID Software at one point, who said it was ok.

So, there you go. Illegal? no.

Just quit trying to make a fuss about everything and have fun!, thats what this site is here for.

JellyWarrior · Post by **JellyWarrior** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 4:23 am

I thought Quake 1 and Quake 2's source code was released. So wouldnt that make it legal to port Quake 1 & 2?

Polymira · Post by **Polymira** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 5:36 am

"The source code for Titanium Studios port of Quake was freely available to everyone who had a sega development kit on their "developers channel" - how is that a "non open version"? the fact that source was compiled and released without source included doesn't automatically make it illegal you know.

For the record, you can download a free WinCE compiler for PocketPC which includes SH4 as an output target platform from microsofts website so the fact its made in WinCE doesnt make it illegal either"

Ok, for one . . . look, Quake is under the GPL liscense, which makes the source legally HAVE to be available. Which it isn't, this alone makes it highly illigal my friend... wheather titanium or id software care . . . . gpl will.

And the free wince compiler for pocketpc which includes SH4.... that doesn't matter, because it still isn't usable for the DC . . i mean, it doesn't have any libs for dc, just compiles for it's architecture. No drivers for any dc hardware, etc... it uses the official wince lib (remember, they are offical developers, they OWN the wince kit, but it's still even illigal to distrobute binaries online... unlicensed. Basicly, quakedc is more illigal then any dc homebrew stuff made with the xdk....

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 8:20 am

pSyCo wrote:
Ok, for one . . . look, Quake is under the GPL liscense, which makes the source legally HAVE to be available. Which it isn't, this alone makes it highly illigal my friend... wheather titanium or id software care . . . . gpl will.
<snip> Basicly, quakedc is more illigal then any dc homebrew stuff made with the xdk....

The original 'release' of QuakeDC included the source - most places dropped it to save on bandwidth. Source isn't included with every release that source *should* be included with (noticably disk images hosted by major sites) because its pointless to make people with no interest in the source have to download extra stuff they have no need / desire for.

It meets the GPL because source *IS* available for those licenced developers who want it - Titanium Studios never broke any law by downloading warezed dev kits did they?

I fail to see how a legally made product using a purchased devlopment kit that was leaked is "more illegal" than software made using *stolen* development tools. Maybe if you're a hypocrite it is.

For future reference:

The fact that *you* cannot get the source does not mean it is not freely available to *licenced* devlopers - giving it to unlicenced developers is exactly the same as giving them large parts of a commercially available product (the Dreamcast SDK) - it clearly meets the 'spirit' of GPL (as it was originally released as a 'demo' to PC publishers to show how they could get stuff converted to dC quickly) even if it doesnt meet the letter.

"xdk" is an Xbox development kit not a dreamcast one - try and keep in tune with the DC scene

Most companies will care more about people using stolen development tools than not strictly following the letter of the GPL licence - that is why MAME-X etc for xbox are *warez* and arent hosted by reputable Xbox emulation sites.

Wasgo · Post by **Wasgo** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 11:59 am

Here's an easy one. The GPL license is only for people that only get the GPL license. id Software does offer other licenses for the Quake 1 source. Their basic option is a full use license for $10,000. Heck, that one is even mentioned on their site.

reaper2k2 · Post by **reaper2k2** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 2:12 pm

all i can say is who cares we all got it we use it no ones puting us in jail

end of story lets make lots of mods for it use it as a easyer dev system

thats better then the illegal thing again the ip bin is illegal makes all home brew illegal but who cares

use it play it put it in your games cupboard like i do

999 · Post by **999** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 3:56 pm

reaper2k2 wrote:all i can say is who cares we all got it we use it no ones puting us in jail

end of story lets make lots of mods for it use it as a easyer dev system

thats better then the illegal thing again the ip bin is illegal makes all home brew illegal but who cares

use it play it put it in your games cupboard like i do

"," "." <-- I take it you don't need those much in programming?

Synlor · Post by **Synlor** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 4:14 pm

moved to

FPS Discussion

spaceboy100 · Post by **spaceboy100** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 5:02 pm

yada yada yada...
evey so often someone comes over and says this stuff...

Didnt ID write to the site and say that so long as it was only distributed with the shareware paks they didn't mind?

Plus this site is *very* legal-consious, believe me, and if there was something here that shouldnt be then they would remove it before you could say 'S?gaG?n' and you would be banned from even talking about it.

So try and stay calm about it.

Swiss_Cheeseman · Post by **Swiss_Cheeseman** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:41 pm

Yes, the quake source was GPLed

But this isnt the GPLed quake source. And there is no source to go with it, therefore making it borderline illegal.

Sorry, meant WinCE runtime binaries.

Sultan of Saturn · Post by **Sultan of Saturn** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:50 pm

Although a little off topic, I emailed Todd Hollenshead (the ceo of id software), and I asked him whether it would be possible to see something like an Id Anthology on the PS2 or what about porting Quake 2 to the Dreamcast to be sold as a budget title. He told me that 1) it is too risky of an investment as the Dreamcast is commercially dead and 2) there isn't a market for it (a possible Id Anthology for the PS2). Thus, if even id software doesn't even care about even making some easy money on an idea that they even think would fail commercially, why would they even bother with someone or some entity interested in a homebrew port? The only thing that I can think of is that I am thankful that we've got Quake DC, and I hope, pray, and even would pay for Quake 2, Hexen 2, or even Heretic 2 for the Dreamcast.

Swiss_Cheeseman · Post by **Swiss_Cheeseman** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:57 am

As soon as the GPL GLQuake port is done for the DC, i would recommend getting rid of the Ti Studios port.

NeonGenesis · Post by **NeonGenesis** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:03 am

Until requested by ID, I see no reason at all as to why they should remove the TI port of Quake. It's tested, it works, and removing it is pointless. Get over it, Swiss.

ajay() · Post by **ajay()** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:38 pm

The GPL status of TS's port is a red herring in relation to the legality of the software.
TS have fullfilled there obligations to the GPL liscense.
That it's avaliable here without a source code also, is not their responsibility.
They neither support it's avaliability nor request it's removal.
Similarly, Id do likewise.
Microsoft could if they wished demand the removal of the WinCE files from the download. Until then.........

I agree in part with Swiss_Cheeseman 's view that once the wip GlQuake port is completed the TS one should be consigned to history. However if it struggles with Raptors! r_speed-unfriendly maps then I might reconsider.

reaper2k2 · Post by **reaper2k2** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:19 pm

it has then wince folder

it should be removed but its only .......illegal when there no better one to replace it is what ppl are saying

great sounds great ill apply that to every software i download from now on

its borderline illegal is more the right word for it

but i dont care and no c it dont matter how neat your code is it dont make ant diffrents ............. since i dont type much but code i really......dont care were my dots or caps are

Quake DC legality issues

Quake DC legality issues

Re: Quake DC legality issues

oh i see

really

Re: really

like i siad