Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

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Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by hey911 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:39 am

So, is the modern day concept of race biologically/medically valid?

Please note that I'm asking as a topic starter, not because I'm unaware of the facts...
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by U-said-it » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:55 am

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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Ex-Cyber » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:46 am

My understanding is this: the concept of a reproductively-isolated population with identifiable genetic characteristics is valid, but in practice that has damn near nothing to do with the social construct of "race" (which is based mostly on a weird mix of facial features, skin color, and culture/ethnicity).
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by FamilyGuy » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:15 am

AFAIK the difference between skin colors doesn't create a new race, not more thant the color of the eyes or of the hairs. To be of a new race one would have to be genetically really more different than simply of a different skin-color. A black and a white labrador dog are still labrador dogs, ain't they?

Is racism colorism then?

By the way, that's just my humble understanding of genetics, I could be wrong.

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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by not just souLLy now » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:58 pm

HI WE'RE NOT DOING YOUR HOMEWORK FOR YOU. KTHX.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Jeeba Jabba » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:17 pm

of course its valid.

why else do white people control the world.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by hey911 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:55 pm

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make is seem like I was doing homework.

By the way the C.D. in my sig is "Charles Darwin". Thank God, u-said-it didn't link to Wikipedia...
Whats up with people always quoting Wikipedia anyway? You do know they're just a middle man to the real info...

I'll come up with something more interesting to talk about next time.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Roofus » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:16 am

Unlike sexual orientation, race is a lifestyle choice.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by |darc| » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:39 am

When did Off-Topic turn into Null/Junk?
It's thinking...
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Quzar » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:58 am

|darc| wrote:When did Off-Topic turn into Null/Junk?
Mid/late 2001.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Stormwatch » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:38 pm

If this was posted in Null, I'd guess it'd get non-serious pseudo-racist replies, like /b/.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Lartrak » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:23 pm

My favorite example of why the modern conception of race people discuss is invalid is this: you used to be able to change race by crossing certain state lines, depending on your family origins.

Of course, the fact that what race is which varies on who and where it is asked also proves this.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by hey911 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:23 am

Jeeba Jabba wrote:of course its valid.

why else do white people control the world.
On that same note: Would women be inferior to men, "social" inequalities wouldn't exist even between "white" groups of people?

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1. If one group of people has genes present that account for red, orange, yellow, green, and blue eyes.

2. And another group has genes that account for red, pink *chuckles*, yellow, green, and blue.

3. Then 80% of all eye variation exists between the two groups.
Taking into account that phenotypical (outward) variation only accounts for a extremely small fraction of that human genetic variation. The estimated genetic variation between "all groups" of people is around 85%, with a good percentage of those phenotypical differences being accounted for in that shared variation.

So in other words, the majority of differences between any specific "geographical" populations are not the ones usually used to classify people into races. Like skin color (polygenic), hair type, eye color, etc... The difference are factors such as the likelihood of developing cardio-vascular disease, diabetes, sickle-cell anemia, hypertension, alcoholism, skin cancer(s), obesity...

Again the importance of diagnosing a (disease/disease potential) for "anybody", would be based on direct family history, and not racial group identification.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Wagh » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:07 am

You are more related to a person of another race than someone of your own.

It is all stupid anyways.

There are genetic differences but for random things. ( like the cystic fibrosis gene in African blacks ).
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Lartrak » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:50 pm

You are more related to a person of another race than someone of your own.
I'm going to call shenanigans on that one. I think that's a claim along the lines of "people only use 10% of their brains!"
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Wagh » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Lartrak wrote:
You are more related to a person of another race than someone of your own.
I'm going to call shenanigans on that one. I think that's a claim along the lines of "people only use 10% of their brains!"
Well. It's not just some "claim". The statement is made by Spencer Wells in the book Deep Ancestry. He heads the The Genographic Project. I'd say he has enough knowledge to make such a statement.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by hey911 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:09 am

When I said that 85% of all variation exists between all people, I didn't mean that someone you'd call a different race had the other 15% of variation. Humans and Chimpanzees share 97-98% of their Genome, and humans are 99.9% alike. After all, there are parts of our genome that don't vary. The 85% is just in reference to the sequences that do.

By the way variation is referring to an alternative version of a gene that can exist at a given loci. = Allele.

What it means is that say a certain percentage of that, the other 15% is distributed locally among a geographically distinct groups. Like one of the pacific island chains having 0.2 to 0.5% of genetic variation not seen anywhere else in the world, but not with all of that 15% in one place.

For anyone interested, there are educational DVD/VHS tapes being distributed by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute for "Free" to residents in the continental United States. Some of the dvds have very good lectures on the level of High School Senior/Pre-College, but are very informative nonetheless. You are required to register, but there are no strings attached. - http://www.hhmi.org/ , go to the "Catalog" section.

I personally recommend these Lecture/Lab Dvds - Scanning Life's Matrix, Evolution: Constant Change and Common Threads, Evolution: Fossils, Genes, and Mousetraps
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by Lartrak » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:40 pm

Wagh wrote:
Lartrak wrote:
You are more related to a person of another race than someone of your own.
I'm going to call shenanigans on that one. I think that's a claim along the lines of "people only use 10% of their brains!"
Well. It's not just some "claim". The statement is made by Spencer Wells in the book Deep Ancestry. He heads the The Genographic Project. I'd say he has enough knowledge to make such a statement.
Thanks for the link. That book sounds pretty interesting. I still doubt the claim because some racial groups are extremely isolated (though they're a small minority). Probably true for myself though, being white with backgrounds from a multitude of regions.

Think I'd agree if you said "some people are more closely related to some members of another race than some members of their own". That's a mouthful though.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by hey911 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:28 am

It might be a little less confusing to say that "you're just as likely to be as genetically different to someone from your own race, than to someone else's".

Out of coincidence I'd also recommend a book and accompanying video, "Journey of Man". - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ofman.html

I saw this a few years ago, and I thought it was great, it didn't pull any punches either. When it comes to science, I prefer to take the facts head on, without the sugar coating.
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Re: Is the concept of human race biologically valid?

Post by toastman » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:00 pm

Not anymore. Humans are too well traveled and connected to each other to promote the biological diversity necessary to split into separate species.
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