White Race and the White Man

[Wagh]

Is there a difference? Do you think there is such a thing as white guilt?

I was having this conversation with a friend of mine earlier. Just wanted to see what you guys thought.

My personal thoughts. Yes there's a difference between the white man and the white race. The white man turning into something evil and deceptive. Where as the white race as a whole is not nearly as bad as the white man. However the white race is not somehow devoid of fault. Being as it spawned it and keeps it going involuntary. As for white guilt I'd say yeah. But I dunno. I used to imagine it was a lot higher than it was. Dunno realised that was me being ignorant.

[Zealous zerotype]

I have no guilt for my skin colour nor should any one else.

[Egotistical EvilN]

I have no guilt for my skin colour nor should any one else.

Neither have I guilt for my ancestor's actions. I have guilt for my ancestor's treatment, but not for their actions.

[not just souLLy now]

Without taking away how fucking horrible the slave trade was, I don't think it's a reflection of the white race's natural inclination to do evil things- more the human race as a whole always being drawn to selfish disgusting actions.

I think the reason why we can be inclined to feel guilty or at the very least uncomfortable talking about it is we can see the behavior in ourselves, we know it's feasible in slightly different circumstances that we would be part of the mob mentality, we could be the enslavers- because we're naturally selfish. Would we have been drawn into the 'patriotic nationalism' of Nazi Germany if we were there... possibly. Not because we want to do evil but because a lot of the time we're too apathetic to stop evil.

Probably rambling, but that's my 2 cents.

[Vlad Tepes]

I think the reason why we can be inclined to feel guilty or at the very least uncomfortable talking about it is we can see the behavior in ourselves, we know it's feasible in slightly different circumstances that we would be part of the mob mentality, we could be the enslavers- because we're naturally selfish. Would we have been drawn into the 'patriotic nationalism' of Nazi Germany if we were there... possibly. Not because we want to do evil but because a lot of the time we're too apathetic to stop evil.

Probably rambling, but that's my 2 cents.

I agree. Also, slavery isn't something white people invented. Humans have been trying to enslave each other for centuries. It hasn't always been the white man doing the enslaving, and people haven't always been enslaved because of skin color. We tend to associate slavery with the "white man" enslaving the "black man" in the US, and while it was horrible, it isn't the worst case of slavery in all of history. It's just the most recent.

[AgentGreen]

I don't have white man's guilt. The bulk of my ancestors weren't even on this side of the Atlantic during the whole thing.

[Ex-Cyber]

We tend to associate slavery with the "white man" enslaving the "black man" in the US, and while it was horrible, it isn't the worst case of slavery in all of history. It's just the most recent.

No, it's not. Slavery still goes on today, even though it's illegal in most places.

[jaredfogle]

Ever hear of the White Man's Burden?

It's an interesting idea, that we suffer for who we are in a way that is unique to us. The burden could be considered rationality and individualism. The sort of fragmentation of experience we have doesn't happen in other cultures. Some people see that atom bomb as the culmination or justification of this burden, I see electronic technology.

It is not an idea connected with any racial superiority or anything of that sort, and it isn't necessarily something I believe in.

[arrowhead]

I think the reason why we can be inclined to feel guilty or at the very least uncomfortable talking about it is we can see the behavior in ourselves, we know it's feasible in slightly different circumstances that we would be part of the mob mentality, we could be the enslavers- because we're naturally selfish. Would we have been drawn into the 'patriotic nationalism' of Nazi Germany if we were there... possibly. Not because we want to do evil but because a lot of the time we're too apathetic to stop evil.

Probably rambling, but that's my 2 cents.

I agree. Also, slavery isn't something white people invented. Humans have been trying to enslave each other for centuries. It hasn't always been the white man doing the enslaving, and people haven't always been enslaved because of skin color. We tend to associate slavery with the "white man" enslaving the "black man" in the US, and while it was horrible, it isn't the worst case of slavery in all of history. It's just the most recent.

Its not even the most recent, Brazil had government sponsored slavery 5 years after it was outlawed in the united states.

As far as white guilt goes, I have none. My great grandparents came to new york from Italy in 1906. We don't consider ourselves "White" anyway, although most people do. We have always considered ourselves latin, or Mediterranean at the very least. A long way away from white people in the south, or most northern Europeans.

[Vlad Tepes]

I think the reason why we can be inclined to feel guilty or at the very least uncomfortable talking about it is we can see the behavior in ourselves, we know it's feasible in slightly different circumstances that we would be part of the mob mentality, we could be the enslavers- because we're naturally selfish. Would we have been drawn into the 'patriotic nationalism' of Nazi Germany if we were there... possibly. Not because we want to do evil but because a lot of the time we're too apathetic to stop evil.

Probably rambling, but that's my 2 cents.

I agree. Also, slavery isn't something white people invented. Humans have been trying to enslave each other for centuries. It hasn't always been the white man doing the enslaving, and people haven't always been enslaved because of skin color. We tend to associate slavery with the "white man" enslaving the "black man" in the US, and while it was horrible, it isn't the worst case of slavery in all of history. It's just the most recent.

Its not even the most recent, Brazil had government sponsored slavery 5 years after it was outlawed in the united states.

My bad. I not very well informed on the topic, and I'm sorry for the mistake. I'll do more research before I try to sound like I know what I'm talking about

[APE]

Did I commit such a crime? Nope. Then I don't see any need to have any guilt for any of it.

[Lartrak]

If I recall correctly, Brazil (the last place in the western hemisphere to have slavery) didn't fully end it til about 1883.

There are places in Africa and other areas where it is still essentially tolerated, if not endorsed, by the local government.

[|darc|]

What the fuck is 'white'? People with white skin come from many different backgrounds.

I am Italian. I can't vouch for my mother's side of the family, but I know my father's side came to the United States after slavery had ended. What slavery has to do with me, I don't know.

Yes, it was wrong and I feel very sorry for those who were in slavery and for those descendants of slaves who are in less of a position in life today because they never had ancestors with decent money or knowledge to pass on. Yes, society is worse off today because of slavery over a century ago. No, it's not my fault and it's not my position to apologize for it.

[not just souLLy now]

erm... most of the people that moved slaves to America were probably Europeans using them to help build America, so being of European descent (which i would assume all white Americans would be) does not mean this isn't to do with your ancestors. Regardless you now enjoy the fruits of a society built on those labours anyway so you cannot say none of this applies to me.
I'm not saying anyone should feel guilty but lets put everything in the correct context.

[Zealous zerotype]

erm... most of the people that moved slaves to America were probably Europeans using them to help build America, so being of European descent (which i would assume all white Americans would be) does not mean this isn't to do with your ancestors. Regardless you now enjoy the fruits of a society built on those labours anyway so you cannot say none of this applies to me.
I'm not saying anyone should feel guilty but lets put everything in the correct context.

You mean white power?

[Lartrak]

And, of course, the Brits made tons of money buying and selling slaves and were one of the primary shippers of slaves to the Americas, so they shouldn't be absolved if we're going to lay blame - even though, somehow, that's exactly what has happened.

[Roofus]

On a related subject, why is it OK to say "people of color" and not "colored people?" I'm listening to the radio right now, and the subject is the Jena Six. The host mentioned that a minister there said that she "didn't see what the big deal is. Whites and coloreds get along just fine here." The host then went on to say that he couldn't believe that she was serious; he couldn't remember the last time he heard "people of color referred to seriously as "'coloreds.'"

[Sir Slash]

All great societies are built from quite horrible means...

who can honestly say their ancestors were good people ...

history replays itself over and over bad kings(or presidents) that either aid or causes these problems...

i feel "the white race/white man" is nothing more then a variable in which has little to no impact on the overall outcome

"white", "black", "yelow" "red" and so on have little to nothing n common with events that have happened since the begining of recorded history

[Ex-Cyber]

On a related subject, why is it OK to say "people of color" and not "colored people?" I'm listening to the radio right now, and the subject is the Jena Six. The host mentioned that a minister there said that she "didn't see what the big deal is. Whites and coloreds get along just fine here." The host then went on to say that he couldn't believe that she was serious; he couldn't remember the last time he heard "people of color referred to seriously as "'coloreds.'"

I'm 99% sure that the shock is from "colored" being archaic, not derogatory or otherwise unacceptable. After all, it's what the "C" in "NAACP" (founded around a century ago) stands for. The term "people of color" doesn't really mean the same thing - it refers to all nonwhite people while "colored" refers to black people.

[Egotistical EvilN]

And, of course, the Brits made tons of money buying and selling slaves and were one of the primary shippers of slaves to the Americas, so they shouldn't be absolved if we're going to lay blame - even though, somehow, that's exactly what has happened.

Plus, the majority of slave catchers and exporters were black themselves.