split from: Smash Pack programmer wanted Echelon to release...

[Alc]

Libraries usually receive exemptions or relaxations on copyright use, as do schools, universities and other places of learning. After all, copyright legislation is actually intended to benefit society by protecting the individual's right to profit from their work, although in practice they exist mainly to prevent anyone from using anything unless they've paid your huge corporation first.

Most of the people convicted of sharing Britney Spears MP3s on Kazaa settled out of court, usually for a few thousand dollars. Either way if you've heard of these cases I wonder why you questioned the legality of what they were doing in the first instance - they may be frivolous cases, but they're not that frivolous.

[Jamirus]

I am not sure why that'd be trolling. I am honestly confused as to why it is okay to record and share TV programs and music with friends and family, but not on the internet.

Most often, sharing it on the internet basically means that it will be available to the general public. The sharing you described is however derived from the "right to privat copying", which does not cover this. (but may go further than comparable "fair use" in other countries as opposed to Germany). This is why services like at onlinetvrecorder could only offer downloads with a special key, so it would only be usable by the one who actually "gave the order to record the show" so to speak.

[CaptTrips]

So, strictly for educational purposes, Has anyone figured out how it works? Well, Echelon and Obsidian did. Echelon and Obsidian: What weird names.

I would feel real, real stupid if there were to be hidden in the Smash Pack the basic rudiments of Segacd or Saturn emulation. I mean the "vol. 1" and "Virtua Cop 2" and the inclusion of all the files seemingly needed to play with wince, strikes me as odd.

I mean, if Smash Pack was the last game released officially, It is either adding insult to injury or is a tacit endoresement. I mean, Sega and Gary Lake gave us ginsu, an accurate enough Genesis emulator, a relatively complete library of winceos stuffs, and the most out of place "Virtua Cop 2."

So again, strictly for education, How does the smash pack work, and are there any seemingly useless parts?

[Christuserloeser]

Smash Pack's Genesis emulator is based on SOJ's DreamPassport Mega Drive emulator. That's why they list "original" programmers, artists and producers on the Smash Pack's credits screen:


The only other emulator SOJ did for Dreamcast was the PCEngine emulator that's also included to DreamPassport. DP was given out for free afaik, as was the European DreamKey (which is based on the DP code, but doesn't include the emulators).

[Sweater Fish]

And as for Virtua Cop 2, it's not emulated. It's a port of the PC version, probably ported using WinCE, which explains the WinCE files.

Sega Smash Pack wasn't even close to the last official Dreamcast game released either. Tons of games continued to be released throughout 2001. The last licensed game released in the U.S. was either Midways Greatest Hits 2 or NHL2K2, both released more than a year after Sega Smash Pack.


...word is bondage...

[CaptTrips]

Why has no one pirated this stuff? Besides the obsidian-lemec loader, Why has absolutely no one played with this stuff? Strictly for educational purposes.

Ginsu=Sega's official menu system for swapping programs (take that SBIffy shit)

Manifest is the actual program.

I cannot make heads or tails of what is in the VC2 dirs, particularly maigo.bin.

The PC VC2 game was ported directly from the Saturn, which in turn was ported directly from the Arcade. No missing links here. So what is it, an emulator, an interpreter, a whole port? Or a rework from scratch? I do not know how to look into this any deeper. But strictly for educational purposes, I wish someone would: I mean Katana SDK cannot be copyrighted forever.

[DCDayDreamer]

Why has no one pirated this stuff?

You give so much credence to the stupidity theory!.

Besides the obsidian-lemec loader, Why has absolutely no one played with this stuff? Strictly for educational purposes.

Who says no one hasn't?.

Ginsu=Sega's official menu system for swapping programs (take that SBIffy shit)

I'm completely amazed at your powers of observation and conception.
Sega = One corporation, hundreds of software developers, thousands of distributers, millions of fans.
Sbiffy = One man, one ambition, one goal, and one hell of a contribution to the Dreamcast homebrew scene (take that CaptTrips shit).

Manifest is the actual program.

I cannot make heads or tails of what is in the VC2 dirs, particularly maigo.bin.

The PC VC2 game was ported directly from the Saturn, which in turn was ported directly from the Arcade. No missing links here. So what is it, an emulator, an interpreter, a whole port? Or a rework from scratch? I do not know how to look into this any deeper. But strictly for educational purposes, I wish someone would

Try research yourself, since time began, it's worked for every other human being on the planet!.

I mean Katana SDK cannot be copyrighted forever.

Unless someone has a change of heart, You'll be worm food when the copyright expires.

[CaptTrips]

I am glad my dreamcast is dead.

[|darc|]

I am glad my dreamcast is dead.

I don't understand what you're looking for. All the Smash Pack has to offer is an emulator, a ported VC2 game, and a menu system. The emulator has been ripped and proven to not work that great (poor compatibility and poor sound) despite fast speed, Virtua Cop 2 has been ripped and pirated, and there have been about a dozen releases of Sega-based menus for loading applications. No one uses them because it's copyrighted code that's illegal to distribute and they're a pain in the ass to set up for your own applications.

When you bash two of this community's most loved and respected members (Grendel, who developed the great Dream Inducer menu system, and burnerO, who created the SBI format and the Sbiffy! repository), you should expect to get a negative response.

[CaptTrips]

Sorry, I just don't like sbiffy. I never have and I never will: It always struck me as reinventing the wheel. At least, I am told, It opened up dc homebrew to many more people: On the whole, a good thing. But I do not like it. And my not liking it does not impune the esteemed persons, nor their contributions.

Anyways, I feel in my bones that Sega Smash Pack is hiding something. It boots both .sga and .bin files and it is limited to short file names, no spaces? It should play CDDA natively? Sounds like the emulator is working towards a forward compatability with SCD. I have no proof or even good reason. I just feel like the Smash Pack was aborted, and there is more than meets the eye in there. Hell, Sega may have even released and pirated this stuff itself to avoid bigger problems: like it actually working.

My thinking is, A working emulator by a big corporation may be construed by other big corporations as against the law, so much so they will sink money into "testing the case" or "distinguishing the precedent." If SegaGen can play SCDs, Working Designs would be pissed off: And Working Designs is weird--Sega owns most copyrights for WD games, but WD has North American Distribution Rights. Sega and Working Designs hate each other: Thanks Sega. Emulators are good and lawful for kids in a garage, But can the purpose behind any one emulator's creation be to circumvent the conditions of contracts, corporate or otherwise?

What I am looking for is how to decompile manifest.bin and MDE_US.bin and maigo.bin, strictly for educational purposes. Not that I would know what to do with them once I could read them. Until we can actually read the closed code, We will all have no idea what the big deal was.

And about Katana SDK, does it fall under the DC patents (which expire in 10 years) or a copyright (75years +x years after death of Sega)?

Sorry to waste your time, This has apparently been investigated before? And is evidently not there?

[Ex-Cyber]

And about Katana SDK, does it fall under the DC patents (which expire in 10 years) or a copyright (75years +x years after death of Sega)?

The SDK as supplied by Sega consists of copyright-protected code and documentation. As far as I know, the API itself is not eligible for copyright, but there's no reason to clone it because there's no existing body of Katana-using source code available to the public. The exact expiration rules vary by country, but in general the "life of the author" rule does not apply to corporate authors. The term for corporate and anonymous works in the US is currently 95 years from publication; however the Supreme Court ruled in Eldred v. Ashcroft that Congress may extend the terms of existing copyrights multiple times, so there is no guarantee that the copyright will ever actually expire in the US.

[BlackAura]

Sorry, I just don't like sbiffy. I never have and I never will: It always struck me as reinventing the wheel.

How can it be reinventing the wheel if there was nothing like it before?

[Eviltaco64X]

I dont see why you have to bash Sbiffy and SBInducer capttrips.
I like booting multiple applications and emulators on one disc myself

[Christuserloeser]

CaptTrips: DreamInducer and SelfbootInducer are a great and perfectly legal solution to put many applications, games and emulators on one disc. The commercial equivalents SEGA made and used in their demo compilations (or webbrowsers) can't be used with homebrew - although they boot, they won't play sound. Beats of Rage and WinCE based homebrew being the exceptions.

DreamInducer itself is a fantastic program with an incredible amount of features. I highly doubt you are even remotely aware of its potential. Well, most of us aren't but seeing as you're calling it "Sbiffy shit"..

SelfbootInducer is a brilliant way to automate the process of creating and burning a professional looking DreamInducer disc. You aren't forced to use it if you don't want to, but SEGA's programs are pretty damn bad replacements for DreamInducer.

Personally I think that with few additions (MP3/OGG playback while browsing) and with the Start button thing fixed, DreamInducer would be much better than anyone could ask for.

[Nico0020]

I <3 sbiffy

[curt_grymala]

I loved Sbiffy, too. It's a real shame that both Grendel and bO are gone from the scene at this point. I never knew Grendel, but I enjoyed a lot of time with bO.

I miss Sbiffy. It's too bad the spammers got ahold of it.