3rd Annual Dream On Contest (Extended to June 10, 2006)

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:00 pm

The 3rd Annual Dream On Contest begins today.

There are once again tiers to this contest, but it's very different from last year's contest:

1) Professional Game Development - Develop a professional game to be published by The GOAT Store. You can submit the game to the GOAT Store for publishing at any time, and still submit it to the contest later (provided that the game has not already been published).

2) MiniGame - Create a mini-game to be included on a professionally pressed CD.

The prizes are not yet solidified, but the contest is beginning today (November 21, 2005) to give you enough time to finish the entries before the deadline (May 31, 2006).

The prizes will be much more this year than last year (over $500 worth of prizes). So, the incentive to create a game should definately be there this year.

Post by **BlueCrab** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:45 pm

I think you should still have it (the professional game part). I'd honestly love to enter something in it next year, if I get the chance to. Plus, whether anyone enters or not, what does it hurt?

UndeadDC · Post by **UndeadDC** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:30 pm

Keep it up. Even if no one enters, it's still a good reminder for people to get off their lazy butts and start coding.

bizzle · Post by **bizzle** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:19 pm

I think instead of having the winners get their games pressed that all the games submitted all go on one disk. Instead of selling the disk at a price that'll make a profit for anyone, sell it at cost. That way, everyone will get a chance to get their project on a professionally printed disk and the price will be cheaper so more people will probably be interested.

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:23 pm

My original first post (for the sake of completeness - and to make this thread make more sense to people who are just seeing it

) - the three posts above and most of the posts below are in response to this statement:

Yes, the 2nd annual Dream On contest isn't even over yet, but I have something I want to get opinions on for the next contest:

There were no entries in the main contest this year. This could very well be because I did a poor job advertising the contest this year - and I didn't give reminders very often.

I know a few people wanted to enter a full game, but they probably didn't even know the contest was ending so soon.

So the question: should I have the professional full game division for the next contest, or should I dump it altogether?

I'm mainly looking for coder's opinions, but I'll take all opinions into consideration.

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Xylene wrote:I think instead of having the winners get their games pressed that all the games submitted all go on one disk. Instead of selling the disk at a price that'll make a profit for anyone, sell it at cost. That way, everyone will get a chance to get their project on a professionally printed disk and the price will be cheaper so more people will probably be interested.

I already thought of that. As a matter of fact, that's what's being done this year. All entries in the 2nd and 4th categories will go on the Dream On demo disk.

It's still no substitute for a professional game with the works though. At least not in my opinion. (That's not to say someone never will have the incentive to make a freeware game as feature packed as the three games that have been released commercially so far. I'll openly embrace that with open arms.)

I've just felt that the contest gives developers a creative boost - in that a publishing contract is awarded to the winner(s).

The thing is I'm not even sure if anyone is still even interested in making professional games under a deadline imposed by a contest.

That's what this thread is for - to guage the interest. If the interest is still there, the contest will continue as usual. If not, well it will still be around for those who want to do freeware games. At least until developer interest in the Dreamcast ceases, which I hope won't be until many years from now.

goatdan · Post by **goatdan** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:37 pm

Just to add a bit to that, doing a professionally pressed game 'at cost' is nearly impossible. At cost would mean that the person pressing the games would have to sell 100% of them to break even.

While this seems like a simple enough thing, it gets more complex. If that batch sells out, then to press another batch costs a bunch of money again -- money that may or may not be made back. If you don't repress, everyone that didn't get a copy gets all pissy that they need one and you owe them one.

Quite frankly, it isn't worth it.

What Meta is doing with the games is about as best as could be asked. If a full game is submitted, it goes into a whole different realm.

Meta, I'll be PMing you in a bit with some ideas...

bucanero · Post by **bucanero** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:24 pm

Well, I'm just talking for myself here...

I've in mind a project to do at least one complete game for the DC, but as dreamcast coding its a hobby for me, it's hard to find the time to work on it.

And then, contests have deadlines, and even more, you can't release it when you have it done if you want to participate in the contest. I know, you can release a demo, but suppose I've the whole game completed by June 2006. I would like to make it available ASAP. Waiting until December 2006 (for example) would be just sad for any developer.

Well, it's just my opinion... in any case, the "full game" category should stay... maybe tweaking some rules would help to get more entries.

goatdan · Post by **goatdan** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:31 pm

bucanero, those are some very good points to take into consideration. personally, I hadn't even thought about that, even in my recent PM to MetaFox.

Just as an idea to toss out there to include in all that other stuff that I typed MetaFox (and others

), perhaps the contest could be for any game within a certain period to be released could be it. Then, if you submitted a game for publishing in June, it could still be a contest game. If I submitted a game in August, it could too, and someone who submitted their game at the deadline could be the final one. Then, the 'winner' of the full game could be whichever full game from that period the judges felt was the best -- whether it was your and my games that were already released, or the one that snuck in at the last moment.

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:59 am

Thanks for all the opinions so far guys - you've all brought up some interesting points. I'm going to think a bit on how to create a fair contest that will appeal to everyone, and get back to you guys.

If anyone else has any opinions in the meantime, let me know. This thread has been very enlightening so far.

Sir Savant · Post by **Sir Savant** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:28 am

Although I have not coded anything released for the Dreamcast yet, I too would like to submit a game for next year. I even have an idea for it and everything. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of bucanero's post, and would also like to add that more definition should be made for a professional game. Should it have menu options? Customizable controls? How big should it be? Stuff like that.

I think UndeadDC said it best when he stated that this would be an incentive for people to get off of their lazy asses. I almost had a Doom mod working for DC which I may release before Christmas now that I have more time, but these contests DO give incentive to all.

OMG, I said I wouldn't post, but just one post won't destroy the space-time continuum.

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:42 am

Savant wrote:Although I have not coded anything released for the Dreamcast yet, I too would like to submit a game for next year. I even have an idea for it and everything. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of bucanero's post, and would also like to add that more definition should be made for a professional game. Should it have menu options? Customizable controls? How big should it be? Stuff like that.

The criteria has always been in place for those questions - except size. Size doesn't matter. It needs to have menu options, VMU saving (either menu option saving or both menu option saving and game option saving), and a menu screen. Multiple game modes are a plus, though that's not exactly required. That's the bare minimum for a professional game - though obviously more features will give your game a higher score in the "completeness" criteria.

goatdan · Post by **goatdan** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:24 am

Savant wrote:Although I have not coded anything released for the Dreamcast yet, I too would like to submit a game for next year. I even have an idea for it and everything. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of bucanero's post, and would also like to add that more definition should be made for a professional game. Should it have menu options? Customizable controls? How big should it be? Stuff like that.

Since the GOAT Store is sort of a partner for this whole thing, I think that I can also help to answer this question...

A "professional" game should be a game that is complete enough to become a release, or a game that is close enough to becoming complete that it will be released after some tweaking. To see what this entails, check out some of our current releases like Inhabitants, Maqiupai and Feet of Fury. Some things that they all for the most part include:

- Multiple modes of play
- Unlockables
- Multiplayer modes (Maqiupai doesn't though)
- VMU Saving options

These aren't all things that you will HAVE to do of course, but if you make a game that doesn't include at least some of this, you probably don't have that great of a chance.

It also has to -- and this is the golden rule -- pass Gary and me as a "game that we think we can sell enough to break even from pressing." That may sound like a pretty obvious one, but that is really what it comes down to. If Gary or I look at it and go, "Um, no way will we sell enough for this to break even." we won't publish it. Not to sound high-and-mighty or anything like that, but we're putting the money on the line -- and it is quite a bit of it -- so we need to ensure that we are getting a return on our investment.

The best way to go about doing it, in my opinion, would be to contact me and chat with me about the game. I will be very honest with you about everything regarding it. I'll also share with you contract terms and stuff if you are serious, so you can decide if it is worth it for you. No one is getting rich doing this, but it sure can be a great portfolio peice, and a launching pad for getting found in the industry. A lot of people would be very surprised to see where a lot of our sales go to

Imerion · Post by **Imerion** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Please keep the full game main contest. Since I have learned a lot of coding, I will probably participate next year. Looking through this thread it seems there are others as well.
One problem with it seems to be that there are no groups of programmers but only single ones. Perhaps some good way to make contact and get together could be useful. Any other ideas on this would be neat...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:14 pm

Sorry, I was going to get REEB done for it, and then I got fiendishly busy, and then I lost all of the data and graphics because I'm an idiot and don't back things up.

Maybe next year.

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:28 pm

Enchanting Ender wrote:Sorry, I was going to get REEB done for it, and then I got fiendishly busy, and then I lost all of the data and graphics because I'm an idiot and don't back things up.

Maybe next year.

I know exactly how that is. A lot of people scoff at the mention of a coder losing everything in a hard drive crash or an accidental deletion - but it does happen. It happened to me twice even (because I'm an idiot and didn't learn the first time).

The prizes will be much larger this year, so this year's contest is definately the best time to finally get your game finished.

Hiplikebadass · Post by **Hiplikebadass** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:57 am

ok. i have a few things to ask i'm am amature coder made a few games (stable ones just crappy graphics since i could hardly do any photoshop at the time). i have a few questions. can i code for dreamcast in C or C+? what languages does it accept how can i set up an enviorment in linux and where can i find a guide to start myself off coding for this so i can finish the game by may 31st. i lost my games in a computer crash myself just recently restored it to normal running xandros right now. i have designs graphics and everything down for the game i wanna make it's going to be called "tank 786" if i can get the guide and all taht by the end of this week i can start work on it and probably finish by may 31st earlier even. The game is a shooter in which you control a robott (bit like bangai-o but your robot is bigger.) there's gonna be a random level generator included code for that was alerady done before crash and at least 40 single screen levels. there's little to no plot inthe game just random cutscenes depicting the next boss your going to fight with a short exchange of dialouge between everybody. I have 0 experiencei n porting things i only make simple 1-4 player games for the computer no 3d only 2d. anyone willing to point me in the right direction so i can get started? screenshots will be ready in at 4-6 weeks after i get the guide of the first level and the random level generator. the game will use ripped graphics off contra hardcorps, last resort, cyber lip, twinbee, contra 3 alien wars, mario, and zelda. The game is quite difficult but there's unlimited mans (yes your lives will be called mans in any releases i'm gonna make for the dreamcast inside joke really:p) and i plan to be an avid homebrew coder for the dreamcast with a lot of releases for it. never coded for a console before fyi. I love games like metal slug contra blazing star gradius. Anything that's damned hard and has many explosions and is just fun in general. Dont like rpg's adventure games i like 3 or 4 only. You can expect somethign similar to metal slug and such when i release a game. I'm planning 3 games so far to remake for the dremacast that i've made in the past. Besides tank 786 of course.
Slug vs. Shredder=Only made it to beta really then completely gave up after computer crashed and only had 1 copy of a version i did in like 2 days. basic stick figure graphics good physics crappy controls great concept.
Extreme pong=Probably best game i did in which it was pong but with an anime music video playing in the backround and you could collect weapons which when you would shoot the ball it would make it go faster towards the opponents side only 1 level was finished and 1 or 2 weapons and the funds to enter the contest i was going to enter it in weren't raised. needed 1000 minimal.
Artifact collector=Joke game. you control a man in blue jeans with a red shirt while running from the school bully collecting artifacts that aren't artifacts at all but just these objects flashing the diffrent letters of the alphabet while going through warp pipes collecting coins killing mario and running from a turtle.
I'veo nly coded in Windows xp and Me. So i can only pray it wont be much diffrent in linux *my hopes are up that i wont have to learn many new things here*

Post by **Quzar** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:04 am

yes, this is OT, but: I can't wait for you to shut me up.

Hiplikebadass · Post by **Hiplikebadass** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:11 am

your the first person that's ever gotten what song my name is from :p

mr. K · Post by **mr. K** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:57 pm

Hi.

MetaFox wrote:1) Professional Game Development - Develop a professional game to be published by The GOAT Store.

MetaFox wrote:The prizes will be much more this year than last year (over $500 worth of prizes).

MetaFox wrote:a publishing contract is awarded to the winner(s).

The "prizes" part isn't very clear for me. For example, the development team gets a publishing contract for their professional game, GOAT Publishing releases it, and the development team receives these $500 worth of prizes?

MetaFox wrote:The thing is I'm not even sure if anyone is still even interested in making professional games under a deadline imposed by a contest.

I am, and I have a project that is already being worked on. However, ...

goatdan wrote:A "professional" game should be a game that is complete enough to become a release, or a game that is close enough to becoming complete that it will be released after some tweaking.

... I don't know how much of it will be ready at the contest's deadline (May 31). A playable demo is certainly possible, but I would need some more months to improve it. It's a rather complex project.