Needles files in the WinCE folder of QDC!

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Needles files in the WinCE folder of QDC!

Post by Moi » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:22 am

Hi!
I heard QuakeDC had memory problems because of WinCE's libs.
Because QuakeDC has no Multiplayer-support, network libs in the Wince-dir can be deleted.
My QuakeDC seems to run faster without them:

DPMODEMX.DLL (modem driver)
DPLDPLAY.DLL
DPWSOCKX.DLL (socket driver)
DPLAYX.DLL = (242 kb! needed for Multiplaying/direct play)
JSCRIPT.DLL= (330 kb! needed for Java-Script)
MRASDIAL.EXE (dialing programm)
MPPP.DLL= (ppp libary)
MSHTML.DLL= (1.82 MB!!!, needed for showing HTML-files)
OLEAUT32.DLL= (160 kb output lib, I guess..)
PHONETIC.DLL (don't know...)
URLMON.DLL= (188kb!, needed for typing in URLs)
WININET.DLL = (326 kb, needed for Network-support)
=
About 3.2 MB not needed data loaded into RAM!

There are also too big Fonts:
Mtheibd.ttf =8.85 MB!!!!!
Msming.ttf =3.02 MB!!!!!
Msgot.ttf =1.61 MB!!!!!
----------------
= 13.48 MB

replacing them with Tahoma.ttf (3x103kb) would save 13MB of space/(ram?)!
Deleting/replacing would also make download of QuakeDC much smaller!


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Last edited by Moi on Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by SlimDady » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:58 am

interesting info..

Dp you think its worth reburning for?
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Post by ajay() » Thu Mar 14, 2002 3:31 am

Have you tested this?

Ok, re-read your msg, and you obviously have, I'm completely unsure about this, but does DcQuake actually load those files into ram anyway?
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Post by TheDumbAss » Thu Mar 14, 2002 3:58 am

well... deleating them will lower the download size. (which is deffenatly a good thing) But I do not beleave it will effect the ram at all. If I remember what TheGypsy was saying (long ago) WinCE does not load any DLLs that arent needed to run.

What is and isnt needed depends more on the 0winceos.bin (1st_read.bin) then it does the actual program. The one used now isnt optimized for QuakeDC and likely loads several things that arent needed. If someone knew how (and was willing) to compile new 0winceos.bins for us and do a bunch of testing we could lower the ram usage.

Heres a tip off that deleting them probibly wont effect the ram usage... just on the stuff you mentioned 13.48 MB in fonts and 3.2 MB in DLLs = 16.68 MB which is .68MB more then the total avalible ram. Which means that if they ARE loaded they will just be kicked out of ram when it realizes they arent needed. Like it kicks everything else thats not needed out. It'd speed up the initial load time (if they are loaded) but thats it.

I'll look into it when I get a chance though. I think it'd be worth it to upload QuakeDC to the QuakeDev site again just to make everyone elses download smaller.
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New download?

Post by Moi » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:32 am

Here we go again....
I think you are right.
But let me remember you that we are talking about WinCE...
Microsoft's software was never thrifty with RAM or hard disc space.
For example I deleted the same files
on my old Win98 and it ran much faster, too.

OK
I wanted to ask about something else:
What about a new QDC download?
Without PAKs it's only 3.7 MB (RAR-compressed compared to 20 MB with PAK and NET-libs).
And a separate download for the shareware PAK?
I guess there would be more DC-Quake users then. And for me QDC is one of the greatest DC ports EVER.
I hope you'll accept my suggestion....

http://get.to/hanf
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Post by TheDumbAss » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:59 am

Hehe... yeah Microsoft arent known for their 'lightweight' programs and apps. I'll deffenatly agree with that.

And there is a 'pakless' downoad of quakeDC avalible on the quakedev website (linked in my sig) I did put a note in the staff forum here of this new distribution and recommended DCemu switch to it not only for bandwidth but also legal reasons. But they didnt make the change.

Like I said. I'll look into deleating those file (probibly on my next burn) If it works I might go through and delete more until I break it. Then I'll add some back on and get the absolute minimum for a new, new, updated distribution. If you've already tested and found the absolute minimums let me know and I'll skip that... and just test it for myself.
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Use Multisession...

Post by Moi » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:27 am

I'm using multisession. Its the best way to save CDRs.
The only disadvatage is that the CD isnt selfbootable :(.
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Post by TheDumbAss » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:42 am

thats what I do and recomend for anyone who is working on/testing mods. It'd work great for testing this too.

It deffentaly saves cdrs... and for testing a mod in progress where all you need to change is a single pak with a progs.dat to in it test/debug it you could get probibly get 50burns out of a single cdr (or more). Most I've actually done on one cdr is 23 burns... there was still plenty of room it was just scratched.
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Post by Sultan of Saturn » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:44 am

Yes, a smaller download would be great. I've got my internet access through my college, and if you aren't actually doing something on your computer atleast every 20 minutes, it kicks you out. Also, it was downloading like at 2 Kb/sec so that was just a long time. However, I just finished the download last night so hopefully today I can play some Quake on my DC :)
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Post by TheDumbAss » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:07 pm

Let me guess Sultan...
You downloaded the one here on DCemu with the shareware pak?

The one over on QuakeDev is a much smaller download and the servers are somewhat faster then the one here. From my experiance your kinda lucky you averaged 2Kb/s if you got it from dcemu.
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Post by butters » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:24 pm

TheDumbAss wrote:From my experiance your kinda lucky you averaged 2Kb/s if you got it from dcemu.
I always manage at least 20kb/sec, sometimes 40 or faster :P
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New files!

Post by Moi » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:35 am

Hi again!

yesterday I spend 20mins to find out new files.
I could play all levels without any problems.

AMSTREAM.DLL DirectShow runtime, 100% not needed
QUARTZ.DLL DirectShow-lib, 100% waste
DMCOMPOS.DLL Direct Music (maybe needed for playing audio tracks, !I'm not sure!)
DMIME.DLL DirectMusic ^
DMSTYLE.DLL DirectMusic^
ICCVID.DLL Cinepak Video Codec, 100% not needed
MLANG.DLL Multilanguage-lib, anybody from Japan? ;)
MSRLE32.DLL RLE Compressor, not needed
PNGFILT.DLL PNG filter, does Quake use PNG? NO! 100% waste!
SCHANNEL.DLL SSL Security Provider, 100% no need!
SECUR32.DLL WinSecurity, not needed for DC
TOOLHELP.DLL debug/toolhelp
WINSOCK.DLL BSD Socket API
====
about 1.5 MB new shEEt! (I hope i wont be banned after using this word ;) )

I'm asking me if I should delete shdocvw.dll(shell docs control)
Does anybody know?


http//get.to/hanf
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Post by TheDumbAss » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:42 am

Yay! more!

Um... forgot to leave them of the latest test burn of FBX DC... but considering I was wanting to test the mod not the dlls that fine. I'll probibly test it tomorrow.

Sound great man!

And about that one... um... sure why not? It'd just take a few seconds to burn removing it from the filelist and a few minutes to test it. If it doesnt work then its just a few seconds to put it back on :wink:
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New files!

Post by Moi » Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:01 am

Hi again!

yesterday I spend 20mins to find out new files.
I could play all levels without any problems.

AMSTREAM.DLL DirectShow runtime, 100% not needed
QUARTZ.DLL DirectShow-lib, 100% waste
DMCOMPOS.DLL Direct Music (maybe needed for playing audio tracks, !I'm not sure!)
DMIME.DLL DirectMusic ^
DMSTYLE.DLL DirectMusic^
ICCVID.DLL Cinepak Video Codec, 100% not needed
MLANG.DLL Multilanguage-lib, anybody from Japan? ;)
MSRLE32.DLL RLE Compressor, not needed
PNGFILT.DLL PNG filter, does Quake use PNG? NO! 100% waste!
SCHANNEL.DLL SSL Security Provider, 100% no need!
SECUR32.DLL WinSecurity, not needed for DC
TOOLHELP.DLL debug/toolhelp
WINSOCK.DLL BSD Socket API
====
about 1.5 MB new shEEt! (I hope i wont be banned after using this word ;) )

I'm asking me if I should delete shdocvw.dll(shell docs control)
Does anybody know?


http//get.to/hanf
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Post by SinisterTengu » Sun Mar 17, 2002 1:05 am

Someone should re-list all of these, and post it as a sticky, so everyone can see.

EDIT: Or wait, maybe not. I kinda mis-read it the first time. I thought it would help speed loading in QuakeDC, but since it doesn't it doesn't matter. Just uhh...disregard this post. :roll:
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Post by 404NotFound » Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:14 pm

redraider225 wrote:
TheDumbAss wrote:From my experiance your kinda lucky you averaged 2Kb/s if you got it from dcemu.
I always manage at least 20kb/sec, sometimes 40 or faster :P
I normally get 80 and up.
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Post by TheDumbAss » Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:50 pm

Hehe... My low speed is on dialup...
I know when I downloaded QuakeDC from DCemulation the last time it started out quick (3-4Kb/s)... then about 5-10min into the first file it came to a crawl at around 1Kb/s but it averaged around 2Kb/s overall.

Broadband users would get higher speeds for sure...
and the closer you are to the host server the faster it'd be too.
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Post by 404NotFound » Sun Mar 17, 2002 5:57 pm

Yeah lately it's gone as fast as i can download, but around when DSNES .96 came out it was slooow... as in not moving at all.
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Fonts can be deleted!

Post by Moi » Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:44 am

Here we go again...


I've just found out that all fonts con be deleted!
=about 1.3 MB of space saved!



Now QuakeDC (zipped, without any PAKs) is only 2.25 MB


Hope QuakeDC becomes the most popular DC port ever!
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Post by TheDumbAss » Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:56 pm

:D

Thanks a ton Moi

I tried it the other day and had no trouble after deleteing what you've listed. Does make for a tiny burn and download.

I burned it with hack and slash (a standalone TC) and it all worked fine :)

Hack and Slash has some issues that would make me call it compatable but not easily playble... it defenatly needs some work before it can hold its own as a standalone game... wait... what did I just say?

Hack and Slash is a stand alone game (its kinda like a 3d Gauntlet).! A TRUE TC that doesnt require any of the original quake files! And with some work it could be make very playable on dreamcast!

hmm... anyone want to work on the code a bit?? Main issues are controls and the chasecam needs to be zoomable. A working menu to control some of the things would be nice too.
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