Ideas for Scherzo's NesterDC SE.

DaMadFiddler · Post by **DaMadFiddler** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:12 pm

In case you wanted to take the disc with you (say to a friend's house, or on vacation), but didn't want to lug the DC. Or if someone else needed the TV for a while but you still have a PC available.

LyingWake · Post by **LyingWake** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:58 pm

It's for gathering the snapshots of each ROM you have and downloading them automatically, so you don't have to search for them online yourself.

EDIT: Wait, you're porting NesterDC SE to the PC after you're done, scherzo? I didn't know that. Neat.

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:58 pm

Dark Savant0 wrote:Why would you need to use the PC version?

I dunno, for when you're stuck in a world without Dreamcasts. I'm the kind of person that sometimes does things because I can or because it's never be done before.

DaMadFiddler · Post by **DaMadFiddler** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:44 pm

That would be quite an interesting side-note, if you manage to get it working:

"NesterSE: the First Console/PC Hybrid Release"

...Hey, they used to make games in Mac/PC hybrid releases; why not DC/PC?

(On an interesting but unrelated side note: through tinkering a few years ago, I discovered that the only real difference between Sonic R for PC and Sonic R for Saturn is the executable. Once the program has initially booted up on either platform, the PC and Saturn discs can be interchanged with one another).

Sir Savant · Post by **Sir Savant** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:14 am

Then one would have to inject the roms into both sessions, a pc and a dc session, which would cap the max amount of roms to that which would fill 335 megs, depending on overhead. Of course, there would still be support for 99 minute cds, right?

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:48 am

Dark Savant0 wrote:Then one would have to inject the roms into both sessions, a pc and a dc session, which would cap the max amount of roms to that which would fill 335 megs, depending on overhead. Of course, there would still be support for 99 minute cds, right?

No, a PC is perfectly capable of reading the data track on a DC selfboot disk. And keep in mind we're not talking about booting a PC from the disk, but just having Windows do its autorun thingy.

Sir Savant · Post by **Sir Savant** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:14 pm

Oh, I was thinking of one burning it on a GD-ROM. That is some heavy crack, my friends.

So you are making windows version?

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:00 pm

Dark Savant0 wrote:So you are making windows version?

Well, yes, I was definitely planning on it. All I would have to do is port DreamScript to PC. This multi-platform thing is a new development.

Like I said before, there is no way I won't finish SE by the end of May. If I'm able to get the PC version working by then too then great. But I'm afraid that will take too long. I'll just have to make another release later down the line.

cagmere · Post by **cagmere** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:57 pm

All these features are nice, but let's be honest...will this version fix the compatibility issues with the few games that didn't work like Bad News Baseball, Paperboy, and 3d runner to name a few? Also, will speed and sound be 100% for all games? That is and should be the main focus.

jessman · Post by **jessman** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:30 pm

You could try implementing midi sound as an option because it makes games sound LOTS cooler. Of course, authentic sound is always more classic. G-NES has midi support but it's not that good. I was just curious on if it was possible.

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:19 pm

DCEvolution works on a nice menu system to make their releases (more) interesting for PC and DC users

We thought about that during the past year for our DreamEmulation Project series. LyingWake and Mikey242 started working on a proper user interface for our releases a few weeks ago

The problem with releasing freeware games on a disc would be that you'd have to ask the authors for taking money by selling their work as that's something the vast majority of them absolutly forbits in their release notes. Most of them do add a line saying "without permission" that would indicate that you could ask for it by emailing them.
Selling compilations with games for the price of the media (CDR, printed labels, etc), package and delivery plus ebay costs wouldn't be problem.

However, you could do something like DaMadFiddler suggested and release commercial NES games on single game discs via Nester SE.

That leads me to another little 'must-have' wishlist for NesterDC SE with features that you probably already have implemented:
* ROM disc feature
* Possibility for single game discs
Enables the option to skip all menus and intros, maybe allow settings via some xml settings for use with DreamInducer:
1 Load game xyz
2 Load NesterSE
* MP3 playback in menu (like DSNES)
There are lots of musicians using the NES soundchip system for composing great new music where they only add some drum loops or similar.

scherzo wrote:
Christuserloeser wrote:*PAL NES emulation (like SMSplusDC)
The NES frame timing is now directly tied in with the Dreamcast's frame timing, which I guess is 60 fps for US/Jap and 50 fps for Europe.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Basically, I completely removed frame skipping since the emu seems to perform at full speed all the time. It's frame for a frame now. In order to correctly emulate the PAL NES, I suppose I'd have to smoothly distribute 50 frames over 60 frames on an NTSC DC. And I guess I wouldn't have to do anything on a PAL DC. Then completely vice versa for NTSC NES on a PAL DC. Again, if someone knows more than this, let me know, please. I can probably test by using the PAL video modes on my US TV. Yeah, it'll be all garbled, but I should be able to determine if the timing is correct that way.

Hm, I am not sure if I understand your post correctly but I yeah I mean emulating a PAL NES via NesterDC. About 'distribute 60 frames over to 50frames' that could be an user option for people who still own very old PAL TVs, but all the TVs I know of (and the PAL Dreamcast too) do work properly with 60Hz. REZ for example runs at smooth 60 fps in a nice 60Hz mode on any PAL DC (if your TV supports it), same for all other PAL games.

Christuserloeser wrote:*faked Stereo sound
This would be kind of cool. I'll at least research it before I release and consider how difficult it would to implement. With features of this nature - ones that are emulation features - I always have to consider whether there's enough free CPU to do something like this. We'll see.

That would be awesome

Christuserloeser wrote:*Possibility for playing lightgun games either with analog stick or DC light gun
Analog stick is already implemented. As for the light gun... I need a light gun. But it should just be a matter of taking code from 7.1+b and testing it.

That's a good solution. Warmtoe's light gun code should be fully functional. The bug that he describes with "the ducks of Duck Hunt keep flying to the left if I use a BIN instead of ELF" in his release notes has something to do with a bug of NesterDC v7.0 and not his code.

Sir Savant · Post by **Sir Savant** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:37 pm

I would take VERY little profit if selling a disc as I plan too. I mean, the covers (cd and case) will be in color, as well as the first and last page of the insert. So even if I had a large profit margin, I would try to find a way to donate most of it. To a charity or something. Or perhaps I would buy a BBA and put it as the prize for a DC contest. Or just split it between the authors. But I wouldn't keep all that money. I am still calculating it.

And I dont think it would be distributed with commercial games. Thats a NO-NO on ebay, whether or not the buyer can prove they own the game. Most likely there will be special releases with THE BEST nes roms. Of course with author support. And maybe there would be contests for new roms in NES programming forums, just to keep the games coming.

Scherzo, will there be mouse and keyboard support? And my last two questions, will there be like some kind of logo for the vmu menu in the DC? And will each game produce a logo on the vmu itself while playing?

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:50 pm

Do what you want to do, it's a free world.

The only thing that you won't get is the author's permission if you make money with selling it and thus it could be that you could get problems if they see it available for doing profits.

My thought was, that the authors would like to know about their work beeing sold, as that's what they say.

From a DC contributing point of view, a freeware disc containing PD games beeing sold for little money at ebay isn't bad at all - as long as it's quality work.

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:55 pm

I wrote:However, you could do something like DaMadFiddler suggested and release commercial NES games on single game discs via Nester SE.

Wow, I see what one could think by reading what I wrote.... Of course I meant: "However, you could do something like DaMadFiddler suggested and release (=publish) new (=newly developed) commercial NES games on single game discs via Nester SE."

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:57 pm

Dark Savant0 wrote: Scherzo, will there be mouse and keyboard support?

You'll be able to use the mouse to play lightgun games. I also tested the keyboard with Family BASIC a little and it seemed to work, sort of. I never used Family BASIC so I don't know what I should have expected. I think I needed a Japanese keyboard. I dunno.

Was your question more directed towards actually playing games with the keyboard? If it is, I honestly don't see the advantage of it, but if you can convince me otherwise I might consider it.

Dark Savant0 wrote: And my last two questions, will there be like some kind of logo for the vmu menu in the DC?

I would certainly like that.

Dark Savant0 wrote: And will each game produce a logo on the vmu itself while playing?

I doubt it. I don't know what I'd like to show there.

Sir Savant · Post by **Sir Savant** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:11 pm

Keyboard in gaming, cause it gives me a nostalgic pc emulation feel.

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:26 pm

Hey that's the last thing I was expecting to hear

Sir Savant · Post by **Sir Savant** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:20 pm

Well, its true. It will almost be like a pc version when I am done with it. I hope Dreamscript is half as good as your telling us. That would let us make DCHAKKER discs a lot easier.

Mikey242 · Post by **Mikey242** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:15 pm

I would implement the keyboard just because I could

, its always nice to have the option whether you need it or not.

Excellent work Scherzo, this emu is gonna be huge.

BTW wil the PC version run in full screen.

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:57 pm

Mikey242 wrote:I would implement the keyboard just because I could , its always nice to have the option whether you need it or not.

Excellent work Scherzo, this emu is gonna be huge.

BTW wil the PC version run in full screen.

Thanks.

I'd say it'll run in either full screen or windowed. I'll most likely bind the standard alt+enter.