I don't get it?

Post by **Tyne** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:40 am

What makes Beats of Rage so fun?

I've tried to get into the mods and enjoying the actual game after beating it once and I just can't seem to do it - the gameplay is just to limiting; I tried playing it 2-player and my friend ended up saying "So when does something good happen?", I couldn't really reply. It's walk to the left, punch punch punch, special, walk and doesn't contain a lot of the moves/features that the Streets of Rage series contains .. all moves are executed the same way, there's not a lot of engine freedom at all (I've yet to see a single mod that ADDS (not replace!) new motions for new moves, features, gameplay systems, etc ..)

The mods, while a little better are still exactly the same thing. Yet only with replacement graphics and sounds, it's the same as taking a person and giving them a new face but leaving everything else the same old.

I'm not bashing it .. or atleast trying not to, but I don't understand; what am I missing here that you all see?

BrAzE · Post by **BrAzE** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:22 am

Tyne wrote: it's the same as taking a person and giving them a new face but leaving everything else the same old.

lol, have you never had the 'pleasure'

of watching some of those crappy TV shows where they 'doll' the girls up and all of a sudden they are much happier and all the guys are after them? a face lift can do a lot...

To be honest i've never played the full version of 'Beats of Rage', so I can't tell you why I find that fun, but I find the mods fun because sometimes it is nice (for me and my mates who all grew up with these types of games) to go back to the 'old school' and just have the 1, 2, 1, 2 style fighting.

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:43 pm

Well, when BOR first came it, yeah, it was extremely fun and something I expected would never show up on a Dreamcast. The game originally wasn't meant to be openly modifiable, but Senile Team allowed it to be. Sure it has a fixed set of moves, but that only hurts the modders and not the original game.

The mods themselves, well, some of them are pretty good (Ghosts and Goblins, the original Kill Bill: Vol. 1 demo are some good examples).

What you are missing, my sir, is that you don't find it fun, which is not a problem. If it doesn't rock your boat, then fine, but I know BoR, and hopefully the upcoming Age of Beast, do rock my boat.

Nico0020 · Post by **Nico0020** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:13 pm

I think most the people around here are from the 16bit era. Most of us loved Street of Rage. Also the simpsons arcade, spiderman and venom. I havent met a genesis(megadrive) owner that hasent. There was something about just walking through a level in a game with a friend ( I never really liked to play it alone ) and beating the heck outa enemies. I have actully yet to beat B.O.R. since my best friends and I always play it on hard, and just randomly pop it the DC. And its free, you cant complain about that.

I have yet to play a single mod for this game, but I plan to start once I get some new CD-R's. The mods are just something to play around with, but I wont play them as much as I play BOR. because, yes it still is the same game. I think most the dev's out there are maknig mods cause B.O.R. is a good 2-d engine to work with. Probably the best for Dreamcast right now.

Its all just good fun.

Lord_Ball · Post by **Lord_Ball** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:14 am

You know Tyne, much like Quake the source to BOR is available and can be modified to address such a need if you really wanted to. Adding in additional moves wouldn't really change anything gameplay wise, but there are plenty of other changes that could.

DCmad · Post by **DCmad** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:11 am

I get Tyne's point exactelly, i think.
When i see what can be made with quake, his Codename: Corporal, Codename: Envenom, The Ascension of Vigil, Ajay()'s Lunkin's Journey, Buldog Stadium....
Freedom!
You mod quake the way it pleases you, you can do anything.
I personally dislike to see many FPS mods. and quake can leave this routine.

BOR, in other side, is a Beat'm up engine wich can only result in Beat'm up mods.
Of course i love the artistic touch it can need, some mods make me play a lot on my pc. Hatchet Ninjaz is my #1. And i want to see some more. That Braze's B&W mod looks great, and i want to see it. Is artistic at best.

The big deal in Quake moding vs BOR moding is: BOR requires time, patience and photoshop skills. QuakeC is almost a programing language, hard to master as Tyne does. You don't see as many quake moders as the BOR moders we have here. Don't see as many Quake mods as BOR mods we have here.
BOR is easy at the best, many DCEmulations turned on Moders of Rage when Ian Micheal made that TNMT mod and DCSteve came with Megaman WotP. Even i tryed to make a BOR mod, got 1 char ready. Quake is another thing, i tryed to model one enemy, it's hard to learn. I showed to like to make maps, and can't get near enough from QuakeC.

For my opinion, BOR is funny to MOD, relaxing, easy.
Quake is a greater step, for QuakeC addicts, see Tyne's sig

BTW, for Beat'm ups, i'm all for The Ascession of Vigil. See the gamma of moves Tyne adds to it, and he doesn't stop!

Lastly, i never understood why nobody doesn't just get BOR source files, adds some new moves (commands) and recompiles a boosted up version. Would be good to have some new commands, like UP+punch, DOWN+punch, hold punch and release it, QCB+punch, DP+punch... Something SoR cultists would hate...

Lord_Ball · Post by **Lord_Ball** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:02 pm

You only have Quake mods like Codename: Corporal, Codename: Envenom, The Ascension of Vigil, Ajay()'s Lunkin's Journey, Buldog Stadium because of source changes. My point is that the source is freely available to make the changes one desires, I've already made a lot of changes myself (none of which include new attack moves though).

DCmad · Post by **DCmad** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:37 pm

And despite how many changes you make to BOR engine, IS a beat'm up engine and only allows to make beat'm up mods.
Of course i have Road Rash Revolution in mind when i type this, but i don't know untill what point it is a racing game. Infact i still have to try it.
Also, i and maybe everyone else would love to see what changes you made in BOR.
I think every improvement in this engine would be wellcome.

Note that i'm not criticizing BOR or any of its mods. As a DCEmulation user i respect and admire and thank for everyone contributing to its purposes.
As i stated above, i have a artistic interest in the mods, they can be as good as the moder can be creative.
And my words were just from my opinion, just like those from Tyne

curt_grymala · Post by **curt_grymala** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:43 pm

DCmad wrote:And despite how many changes you make to BOR engine, IS a beat'm up engine and only allows to make beat'm up mods.

Ah - you haven't tried the small, but fantastic demo from GabbiAngel, have you? That was not at all a beat em up game, and it just goes to show you how much can be done with a few changes.

Lord_Ball · Post by **Lord_Ball** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:57 pm

True my mod is a beat'em up, but then again it's meant to be. However It wouldn't be too difficult to get a good top down shooter with a few source changes.

Yes Quake is a little more flexible in that if you want to turn BOR into a 2D RPG you'd be best to just start from scratch whereas Prydon's gate is an example how quake can be "modded" in the style of an rpg.

The farther away from the original you want to get the more changes will need to be made. Asside from a top down shooter and maybe a fighting game you be best to start from scratch rather then make source changes to bor. It's almost the same deal with quake, the farther away from an FPS you get the more changes you need to make, the only difference is Quake gives you a more flexible 3D engine than BOR does for 2D.

I'm not trying to compare Quake to BOR, just trying to relate BOR to something Tyne is obviously more familiar with.

DCmad · Post by **DCmad** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:04 pm

curt_grymala wrote:
DCmad wrote:And despite how many changes you make to BOR engine, IS a beat'm up engine and only allows to make beat'm up mods.
Ah - you haven't tried the small, but fantastic demo from GabbiAngel, have you? That was not at all a beat em up game, and it just goes to show you how much can be done with a few changes.

Sure i'll try it

curt_grymala · Post by **curt_grymala** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:54 pm

DCmad wrote:
curt_grymala wrote:
DCmad wrote:And despite how many changes you make to BOR engine, IS a beat'm up engine and only allows to make beat'm up mods.
Ah - you haven't tried the small, but fantastic demo from GabbiAngel, have you? That was not at all a beat em up game, and it just goes to show you how much can be done with a few changes.
Sure i'll try it

Click here to check it out

DCmad · Post by **DCmad** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:24 pm

Thanks, Curt. I already knew where to get it

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:01 am

I never told anyone I did this, but with a few changes you turn it from a side scrolling beat 'em up to a side scrolling shooting gallery.

I did a very rough example how I was going to do a shooting gallery type mod and it would've worked. I did, however, need to adjust a few minor things in the source, but I didn't know how to recompile it and such (I have no coding skills

).

You don't have to limit yourself with a side scrolling beat 'em up as Gabbi showed us, and as I discovered with my shooting gallery.

And no, if anyone wants to try it you can't. It's long gone

(format)

Zealous zerotype · Post by **Zealous zerotype** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:47 am

Man that is so sad skynet

.
We could of had mslug (or smlug type) on the dc,but you had to go and format...

.

InsaneDavid · Post by **InsaneDavid** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:32 pm

It all depends on the mod, Megaman: War of the Past was a good example of how a BoR mod can look and feel very professional. (especially since the last dozen or so commercial Megaman games have sucked - IMO) If you have a MAME cabinet or emulation arcade cabinet the BoR mods rock since many of them would have done great in arcades in the Neo-Geo heavy 1990's. Once you're playing with arcade controls the games have a whole new life.

People play beat-em-ups for the same reason people play impossibly difficult shooters that require god-like reflexes. Yeah, at the core they're all the same, but as is every RTS game, every fighting game, etc. - that's why they're different genres. If you're not into the beat-em-up genre then you probably weren't into the side-scrolling Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles games, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, The Simpsons, and so forth. Seeing a Megaman side scrolling multiplayer beat-em-up was great! Not to mention all the off the wall themed BoR mods in the works, being able to play them on the DC opens things up to more people, I have friends buying Dreamcasts just for BoR.

...personally I'm still waiting for a Bonk's Adventure or DJ Boy BoR mod. I was doing some sprites and sounds for the Classic / Modern Anime BoR mod but it seems that Jodo dropped off the face of the planet and that was the end of that.

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:01 am

zero: no not that type. I mean like a Lethal Enforcers type thing.

I'm sure someone could pull of a MS type game though. Just without the vehicles you get into. Bah, I dunno... Maybe

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:17 am

Yeah I like beat em ups, but I like ones that aren't punch-punch-punch, rinse, repeat. I dunno, I just can't find BoR all that interesting without some of the limitations improved upon within the engine, however I'm working on my own beat em up (for quake, ofcourse): http://www.dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=57434
(Check pages 8-9 for nice screenshots... page 1, first post for the download.. sorry, I know I shouldn't pimp my Quake mod here but it's a beat em up also with a plethora of awesome moves)

Well thanks everyone for your answers, I'll try and give some more mods a chance (especially Hatchet Ninjas as DCMad told me it was good, I believe him!) and I'm a big fan on the Streets of Rage series, especially 2.. I managed to beat it with Axel on V. Hard even and the music blew me away for a Genesis title! Knights of the Round was great also, although the AI could be cheap at times.

Well, if I have anymore input on BoR and it's development I'll post again.

drikobruschi · Post by **drikobruschi** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:54 am

Lord_Ball · Post by **Lord_Ball** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:56 am

drikobruschi wrote:I know maybe someone has already said, but I think the point in BoR mods is for sure you doing your own beat'em up.

NOT ANYMORE!!!

http://www.geocities.com/lord_ball/HorDemo.zip

-warning MASSIVE source changes involved-

I don't get it?

I don't get it?

Re: I don't get it?