The bill to outlaw circumcision

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:52 am

(wow, now THAT is off-topic, huh?)

A bill to end male genital mutilation in the USA
(excerpts from their FAQ section)

What is male circumcision?

Male circumcision is the surgical removal of the foreskin. In the United States today, all forms of child? female circumcision are prohibited under Title 18 of the?U.S. Code.?Males are not included in that legislation, however, and as a result?some 60% of?American boys are still circumcised.

What?is the function?of the male foreskin?

The male foreskin performs a number of functions. First, it directly enhances sexual pleasure?via specialized erogenous?nerve endings?such as the frenulum, the ridged band, and stretch receptors?called Meissner's corpuscles. The foreskin?also serves to protect the moist, mucous membrane of the glans (the "head" of the penis) and the inner foreskin from outside elements, similar to?the way?the female foreskin protects the clitoris.?When?the foreskin?is removed, the penis is transformed from an internal organ into an external one, initiating a desensitizing process known as keratinization. Keratin is a tough, skin-like substance similar to a callus that forms on top of the nerve endings of the glans, resulting in?significant loss of sexual sensitivity. The foreskin also?provides a gliding mechanism during sexual intercourse that reduces friction and locks in moisture, acting as a natural lubricant.?The foreskin provides a number of other important functions as well.

Why would anyone cut off such a valuable body part?

The world origins of circumcision are unknown. However, circumcision began in the United States in the late 1800's largely because some doctors thought that it prevented masturbation, which at the time was?thought to be harmful. But once?that and other?myths were proven wrong, new reasons were created to?perpetuate circumcision, most notably that a circumcised penis is?more "hygienic"?than an intact penis. Other reasons that are used to?justify circumcision?include? flawed studies suggesting that it?protects against disease, that it makes boys look?the same as?their fathers or others in their community,?and for religious reasons.Medicaid reimbursement for circumcision in thirty-seven states also provides financial incentives for circumcision.

Does circumcision cause psychological harm?

Many men who are circumcised suffer the same psychological effects found in rape victims. A sense of great loss and feelings of anger, distrust, and grief are common among circumcised men who are aware of the functions that the foreskin performs. Problems with intimacy in adult life, long term post-traumatic stress?disorder, and feelings of personal powerlessness are also reported?by men when discussing their circumcisions.

So, what do you think? Me, as a victim, am all for it! It must be punished as a CRIME (which it is, as it is a violation of body integrity), absolutely NO ridiculous exception for "religious" reasons!

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:17 am

Well, having not had it done I can't say for sure. But I wouldn't want some freak coming at me with a knife to cut it off!

I say let it be a choice when you reach adult hood. Don't go and chop off the tip of your kids wang just because you think it's a good thing to do

arrowhead · Post by **arrowhead** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:46 am

Well, it will never be outlawed in the US. I seem to remember a very important piece of paper our forefathers wrote that gave Americans freedom of religion. So, since circumcision is a religious practice for the jews, it will never be outlawed. BTW, I have taken biology of human sexuality, and the foreskin has almost no value. Some say that the foreskin gives more sexual pleasure but who knows besides those who were uncut, then cut. And biology/science has proven that it is more clean to have it removed. Bacteria thrives in warm, moist environments. The type of environment created by foreskin. Sweat and urine are trapped between the glans and foreskin which turns into a breading ground for bacteria if not thoroughly cleaned and dabbed after urination or sweating. Where do you think smeg is formed? In skin folds where filth is stored.

BTW, as far as psychological harm goes, most dudes I know who are uncut are uncomfortable showing chicks their weiners, or showering in the gym and crap like that. "Anteater" is a common putdown.

SinTex · Post by **SinTex** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:57 am

Skynet wrote:Well, having not had it done I can't say for sure. But I wouldn't want some freak coming at me with a knife to cut it off!

I say let it be a choice when you reach adult hood. Don't go and chop off the tip of your kids wang just because you think it's a good thing to do

hmm, i say make it ilegal until the age of 21 then peeps have the choice, i say 21 as it's a reasonable amount of time to have experienced life, sex etc.

This should be a world wide thing not just America.

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:01 am

hmm, i say make it ilegal until the age of 21 then peeps have the choice, i say 21 as it's a reasonable amount of time to have experienced life, sex etc.

This should be a world wide thing not just America.

Agreed. I was going to say 18 because that's the legal age of being classified as an adult here in AU. But 21 is a better number because it gives you just a few more years to experience and learn things

arrowhead · Post by **arrowhead** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:17 am

No one will ever do it as an adult. I wouldnt let anyone cut off anything from me. I had a mole removed from my back last month and that was crappy enough, there is no way in hell they are getting near my weiner. But I am glad I was cut as a newborn. From what I have seen in my bio of sexuality class, and the smeg and infection....holy crap am I happy about being cut. Also, I forget the name of the disorder, but it only happens to those with foreskin in tact, a disorder where your glans begins to fuse with the foreskin and everytime the forskin gets pulled away from the glans during sex or urination there is an intense burning and bleeding pain. Plus I think my weiner is better looking than an uncut one, no offense to those with foreskin.

SinTex · Post by **SinTex** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:18 am

18 is the legal adult age in the UK as well, but to be honest i still felt like a kid then.
You learn a huge amount between 18-21 as you should start to get a sense of reality.

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:23 am

18 is the legal adult age in the UK as well, but to be honest i still felt like a kid then.
You learn a huge amount between 18-21 as you should start to get a sense of reality.

That is true. I'm just about to turn 21. I don't claim I know everything there is to know in the world, but I know a helluva lot more now than when I was 18. And I'm more mature and am better at making decisions that affect my life now then I was back then.

Plus I think my weiner is better looking than an uncut one, no offense to those with foreskin.

Just pull it back, what's the diff then?

I dont really know if they look the same with the skin pulled back as a circumsized one, as I don't really make it a habit of looking at other wangs

arrowhead · Post by **arrowhead** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:27 am

Skynet wrote:
I dont really know if they look the same with the skin pulled back as a circumsized one, as I don't really make it a habit of looking at other wangs

Well, I have seen a bunch of porn and mostly they look the same when its pulled back, but I am talking about in a normal state. Like if I was playing strip poker, or streaking, or about to shower with a chick.

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:34 am

Easy solution, get yourself some tape. That'll hold it in place

Veggita2099 · Post by **Veggita2099** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:10 am

Doctors a lot of times do this when a baby is born for medical reasons. Sometimes people have too much of that skin and it can cause infections or something if it is not removed. I never had to have it so I don't know. I see no reason to ban it. This country is starting to become a dictatorship.

Post by **Roofus** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:33 am

Veggita2099 wrote:Doctors a lot of times do this when a baby is born for medical reasons. Sometimes people have too much of that skin and it can cause infections or something if it is not removed. I never had to have it so I don't know. I see no reason to ban it. This country is starting to become a dictatorship.

If there's no medical reason for it, don't do it to babies/children. Then when the person is old enough to decide for themselves, let them do it if they want. Everyone should know what it's like to be able to jerk without lube.

<edit>This probably belongs in CE</edit>

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:22 pm

arrowhead:
> Well, it will never be outlawed in the US.
> I seem to remember a very important
> piece of paper our forefathers wrote that
> gave Americans freedom of religion. So,
> since circumcision is a religious practice
> for the jews, it will never be outlawed.

To hell with that. Freedom of religion is the right to believe in whatever imaginary friend in the sky that you want, not the right to commit crimes because you think your imaginary friend wants you to. Jihad (holy war against all non-muslims) is a religious practice of Islam, but is it legal? And circumcision is nothing short of criminal assault!

Oh, and did you know this: a hundred years ago, medically "justified" female genital mutilation was common in the US too!

arrowhead:
> Some say that the foreskin gives more
> sexual pleasure but who knows besides
> those who were uncut, then cut.

Is my testimonial good for anything? I can tell you: it is hell. The difference is serious. Huge. Most of the time, it's like half the pleasure is gone. Oh, and the thing about the psychological trauma? it's true. I get depressed and think of suicide a lot. I was not like that before! I swear, I'm going to sue a certain doctor.

arrowhead:
> And biology/science has proven
> that it is more clean to have it
> removed. Bacteria thrives in warm,
> moist environments. The type of
> environment created by foreskin.

Except if you consider that the foreskin has its own immune defense system...

arrowhead:
> No one will ever do it as an adult.

If THAT is not reason enough to realize it is wrong to do to children, I don't know what else can be.

arrowhead:
> Also, I forget the name of the
> disorder, but it only happens to
> those with foreskin intact, a
> disorder where your glans
> begins to fuse with the foreskin
> and everytime the forskin gets
> pulled away from the glans
> during sex or urination there
> is an intense burning and bleeding pain.

Never heard of it, and it sounds very strange to me. But I guess it'd be possible to cure it without a circumcision.

For your information: pretty much every male child is born with the glans and the foreskin adhered, and they usually remain like that for three years. It is rare - but not a medical problem - that this last until his adolescence (therefore, it is impossible to diagnose phimosis in children).

arrowhead:
> Plus I think my weiner is better
> looking than an uncut one, no
> offense to those with foreskin.

Your opinion. Me, I think the circumcised penis is as "cute" as, say, an arm with the hand chopped off. It is aberrant, monstrous, and unnatural.

Skynet:
> Easy solution, get yourself
> some tape. That'll hold it in place

Which, is the method of non-surgical foreskin reconstruction. Yes, you can UNDO a circumcision! Well, not exactelly - you can make the skin grow and it will look like a foreskin, but its sensory function can't be restored. It has specific nervs that are gone forever. Still, it brings major improvements over just being circumcised.

Vegitta2099:
> Sometimes people have too much
> of that skin and it can cause infections
> or something if it is not removed.

Trust me... there is no such a thing as "too much foreskin".

Post by **Roofus** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:40 pm

arrowhead wrote:No one will ever do it as an adult.

People do have it done as an adult.

arrowhead wrote:But I am glad I was cut as a newborn. From what I have seen in my bio of sexuality class, and the smeg and infection....holy crap am I happy about being cut.

Yeah, it sure is a pain in the ass to spend an extra 30 seconds while bathing to clean under the foreskin.

stormwatch wrote:To hell with that. Freedom of religion is the right to believe in whatever imaginary friend in the sky that you want, not the right to commit crimes because you think your imaginary friend wants you to. Jihad (holy war against all non-muslims) is a religious practice of Islam, but is it legal? And circumcision is nothing short of criminal assault!

Actually, a better example would have been how it's illegal to have your daughter circumcised even though your religion might demand it. I think the last thing we want to do though is ban it altogether. Maybe not let insurance cover it (does it?) unless it's medically necessary but let people do it for religious reasons. I seem to remember reading that some Jewish people aren't even going along with it anymore.

Post by **Roofus** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:43 pm

Stormwatch wrote:Is my testimonial good for anything? I can tell you: it is hell. The difference is serious. Huge. Most of the time, it's like half the pleasure is gone. Oh, and the thing about the psychological trauma? it's true. I get depressed and think of suicide a lot. I was not like that before! I swear, I'm going to sue a certain doctor.

Wait....when/why did you get cut?

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:47 pm

I'm just curious, Stormwatch... Which was your age when you got circumcized, why it was done, and what was your opinion at that time? I hope I'm not being too intrusive about this.

AgentGreen · Post by **AgentGreen** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:51 pm

I was cut and I'm left wondering what having an uncut one is like all because my parents for some reason wanted me cut as a child. I think it was a convenience thing for my parents, I don't think they wanted to take extra care in cleaning me as an infant. So I was robbed of potential life-long extra pleasure because my parents couldn't spend 3 or 4 years helping me learn how to care for something that was mine. However, outlawing circumcision is a bit drastic but I think that doctors should have to have an in-depth talk with new or expecting parents about the foreskin so they know what they'll be taking from their kid if he's cut.

bizzle · Post by **bizzle** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:37 pm

Jeez, who cares. You act like being circumsized is really going to affect you. It's a peice of skin, big deal. You act like they are cutting your whole thing off.

ace · Post by **ace** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:14 pm

Xylene has no penis, he got the whole thing cut off

That said, I couldn't care less either way. There is no need to make it illegal, if you are against it, then don't circumcize your kids, if you are for it, then go right ahead.

Tall Israeli · Post by **Tall Israeli** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:02 pm

Are you daft? Who in their right mind would decide to get a circumcision at the age of 40?

It reminds me of the episode of Married With Kids where he gets a circumcision.