MDCNG getting left in the dust?

ethoscapade · Post by **ethoscapade** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:33 am

i was just wondering, with all the great news on the NeoCD front lately, how come nobody ever talks about MDCNG? is it that much slower, or just (as i've noticed) horrifyingly complicated?

i still haven't tried it, because i've got a bit of a phobia when it comes to wasting CD-R's and i'm not 100% sure i'm writing those config files correctly.

however, i am very curious about it and eager to see exactly how much slower than NeoCD it is, both because i dream of welding my DC lid shut someday (which would seriously limit NeoCD/SDL's functionality

), and because i really must hear "HeavyMACHINEGun" just once on my dreamcast.

no offense to quzar and ian of course; they're amazing, but...does anybody have any experience with MDCNG?

curt_grymala · Post by **curt_grymala** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:44 am

AFAIK, MDCNG runs NeoGeo games, and NeoCD runs NeoGeo CD games. They are two different systems. It's kind of like the difference between Sega Genesis and SegaCD.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:24 am

It can only run games of about 4.5 meg Only way to player larger games was a cd system.

Post by **Quzar** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:32 am

curt_grymala wrote:AFAIK, MDCNG runs NeoGeo games, and NeoCD runs NeoGeo CD games. They are two different systems. It's kind of like the difference between Sega Genesis and SegaCD.

Not really, because most Neogeo CD games were slightly dumbed down versions of NeoGeo games with CD audio added. I think there were only 2 games released for NGCD that were not on the AES or MVS. Ill look into it, but have never seen sources for MDCNG.

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:47 am

quzar wrote:
curt_grymala wrote:AFAIK, MDCNG runs NeoGeo games, and NeoCD runs NeoGeo CD games. They are two different systems. It's kind of like the difference between Sega Genesis and SegaCD.
Not really, because most Neogeo CD games were slightly dumbed down versions of NeoGeo games with CD audio added. I think there were only 2 games released for NGCD that were not on the AES or MVS. Ill look into it, but have never seen sources for MDCNG.

Heh, actually that was a perfect comparison because most SegaCD games were slightly dumbed down versions of Genesis games with CD audio added.

Orange_Ribbon · Post by **Orange_Ribbon** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:16 pm

I have a question. When Neo Geo made the CD Games, did they wr-write them for CD, or did they find a way to break up the sections of the Roms to different tracks so that only certain things would load? (IE when the game wants fighter A VS Fighter B with background C, did the system looks those up, and load only those to memory?)

ethoscapade · Post by **ethoscapade** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:50 pm

i know the neo geo and the neoCD are different systems; i also know (prepares to get modded) neo geo games are a good deal easier to find in a form that can be...placed onto a CD, let's say.

also, what do you mean about it only being able to run games of 4.5 megs? (ignore this if you are referring to the Neo itself and not the emulator) i certainly couldn't confirm this, because i've never used it, but there's definitely some code in that emulator that mentions to metal slug (&2), and every rom i've ever seen of those games is between 10-20 megs, zipped.

and on the topic of the sega genesis vs. the sega CD - you make a good point, metafox, the sega CD was all but worthless

...however, digital chaos (who, FYI, i willingly gave my sega CD to in exchange for a DC A/V passthrough mod) will come in here shouting if i don't defend the Lunar games. i've never played them, maybe they're good, i don't know, but they were only available on the sega CD for five years.

and, uh, getting back to my original question - has ANYBODY used this emu? preferably, with metal slug?

Heliophobe · Post by **Heliophobe** » Sun May 09, 2004 5:02 pm

have a question. When Neo Geo made the CD Games, did they wr-write them for CD, or did they find a way to break up the sections of the Roms to different tracks so that only certain things would load? (IE when the game wants fighter A VS Fighter B with background C, did the system looks those up, and load only those to memory?)

They would have rewritten them using the original resource files that were used to build the roms. It's a lot easier top split that up when you've got the original source files and, in most cases, the original programmers available to split up the games.

also, what do you mean about it only being able to run games of 4.5 megs? (ignore this if you are referring to the Neo itself and not the emulator) i certainly couldn't confirm this, because i've never used it, but there's definitely some code in that emulator that mentions to metal slug (&2), and every rom i've ever seen of those games is between 10-20 megs, zipped.

Do you mean source code referring to Metal Slug games? As far as I know both of the Neo Geo emulators were derived from the MAME Neo Geo drivers (The Neo Geo CD emulator that the Dreamcast port was based on having been derived from mame's drivers), so there will be comments in the source code referring to games that can't be run on the DC because they can be run on a PC.

Post by **Quzar** » Sun May 09, 2004 7:42 pm

Orange_Ribbon wrote:I have a question. When Neo Geo made the CD Games, did they wr-write them for CD, or did they find a way to break up the sections of the Roms to different tracks so that only certain things would load? (IE when the game wants fighter A VS Fighter B with background C, did the system looks those up, and load only those to memory?)

One NeoGeo forums i have seen people talk about how there are ways to convert some NeoGeo roms into CD games. But it involves tools made through illegal processes or something.

Orange_Ribbon · Post by **Orange_Ribbon** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:32 pm

Ahhh so there is a way then...but like all good things it is a no no. Well that is why it sometimes stinks walking the straight and narrow. I was hopping it would open the door to a lot of great classics.

ethoscapade · Post by **ethoscapade** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:50 pm

Do you mean source code referring to Metal Slug games? As far as I know both of the Neo Geo emulators were derived from the MAME Neo Geo drivers (The Neo Geo CD emulator that the Dreamcast port was based on having been derived from mame's drivers), so there will be comments in the source code referring to games that can't be run on the DC because they can be run on a PC.

@#$%. that makes perfect sense. of course the dreamcast can't load a 14 meg rom into its RAM and still be able to actually process things. can't believe it took me this long to realize it.

oh, well. there go my hopes - for the 2315th time, good luck, quzar and ian!

Post by **Tyne** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:49 pm

It's a shame that it has 27 megs total but can only load 4 meg roms :\

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:58 pm

MetaFox wrote:Heh, actually that was a perfect comparison because most SegaCD games were slightly dumbed down versions of Genesis games with CD audio added.

It wasn't a perfect comparison, it was an good oversimplified comparison. Sega CD added a good amount of extra hardware, whereas NeoGeo CD added what? CDs and RAM, anything else? Also, please list all Genesis games that saw dumbed down Sega CD versions with CD audio. Most Sega CD games were in reality interactive motion video garbage. Thankfully, there were a good number of gems for the system that didn't fit that description.

Post by **Quzar** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:15 pm

Yea, i was gonna respond to that but i just figured he was kidding. if not then that is a really bad description.

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:32 pm

quzar wrote:
Alexvrb wrote:
MetaFox wrote:Heh, actually that was a perfect comparison because most SegaCD games were slightly dumbed down versions of Genesis games with CD audio added.
It wasn't a perfect comparison, it was an good oversimplified comparison. Sega CD added a good amount of extra hardware, whereas NeoGeo CD added what? CDs and RAM, anything else?
Yea, i was gonna respond to that but i just figured he was kidding. if not then that is a really bad description.

I actually was kidding, but I decided to look it up, and it turns out it is true.

Sure, it had extra hardware - but hardly any companies - even Sega themselves ever used it. Hence why most of the games are just their genesis counterparts, or worse (and sometimes better), with CD audio.

Alexvrb wrote:Most Sega CD games were in reality interactive motion video garbage.

This isn't actually true. There were a lot of these types of games - but the bulk of the system's games were indeed ports from existing Genesis games, as they were cheap for the developers to produce.

Alexvrb wrote:Also, please list all Genesis games that saw dumbed down Sega CD versions with CD audio.

There are quite a few:

3 Ninjas Strike Back, Hook, Mortal Kombat, Samurai Showdown, Batman Returns, Ecco the Dolphin, Ecco: The Tides of Time, NBA Jam, NHL '94, Prince of Persia, Adventures of Batman & Robin, Amazing Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin, Battlecorps, Bill Walsh Football, Brutal: Paws of Fury, Chuck Rock, Chuck Rock 2, Cliffhanger, Demolition Man, Dune, Earthworm Jim, Eternal Champions, FIFA Soccer, Flashback.

Orange_Ribbon · Post by **Orange_Ribbon** » Mon May 10, 2004 6:21 am

At least the system saw some great games like Lunar 1/2 and Popfull Mail. I wish there was more more hope for Neo Geo emulation on DC. But in all fairness you need a 400Mhz PC and 64 Plus MB of ram to run the best emulators. Let us lower our mud clumps of war, and raise our mud clumps of peace. (if you get the reference you will be winked at.)

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Mon May 10, 2004 10:23 am

NeroRageX?

BTW: Ecco 1&2 without CDDA - who wants to play that?

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Mon May 10, 2004 10:34 am

I don't remember the games being dumbed-down. Granted, the only game I've played available on both the Mega CD and Mega Drive is Earthworm Jim, but you list that as being dumbed-down. What was missing?

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Mon May 10, 2004 10:34 am

Orange_Ribbon wrote:At least the system saw some great games like Lunar 1/2 and Popfull Mail. I wish there was more more hope for Neo Geo emulation on DC. But in all fairness you need a 400Mhz PC and 64 Plus MB of ram to run the best emulators. Let us lower our mud clumps of war, and raise our mud clumps of peace. (if you get the reference you will be winked at.)

Have you tryed Metal slug on V6.5

Were at 90% speed with cdda Lot of other games are fullspeed now.
Hmm What's U talking about? more hope of this then many other things.

Emulator right now is very good matches and is some what faster on some games then the pc version running on a 850mhz amd Which i have and test side by side.

Dont get your statement neogeo emulation via the cd system is very good right now.

Mikey242 · Post by **Mikey242** » Mon May 10, 2004 11:00 am

Well done on what you have done so far Ian. Because of your progress I will probably go onto ebay and buy a few NeoGeoCD games.