Do CD-Rs or whatever people call "backups" really.

Ronin · Post by **Ronin** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:30 pm

Do they really screw up the drive and things?

Warmachine · Post by **Warmachine** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:22 am

Well backups yes because they are forcing the drive read it. I think it starts with out to in on a cd. But if you dummy i heard it was better. It is better not to play any backups at all.

SlammedNiss · Post by **SlammedNiss** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:43 am

Ronin wrote:Do they really screw up the drive and things?

Here's my whole take on this question. If you notice that every time this question is asked, people will say backup's of commercial games will indeed ruin the drive, but yet any homebrew won't. I think it's total BS. This site is obviously an anti-piracy site, so of course this will be ev everybody's reply. There isn't any single amount data they can show to back up (no pun intended) their statements. I've known a couple people who have been using back-ups for over a couple years now, and their DC works as good as the day they bought it.

Kyosuke · Post by **Kyosuke** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:44 am

I've used tons of CD-Rs for Homebrew games and Linux on DC and my drive works fine.

farrell2k · Post by **farrell2k** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:29 am

Everything is going to ruin your drive, eventually. Will CDRs speed that up just because they are CDRs? lol. no. Don't believe all this dumb crap about moving from outside to in, having data at the beginning of the disc, etc.

sixteen-bit · Post by **sixteen-bit** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:45 am

farrell2k wrote:Everything is going to ruin your drive, eventually.

Agreed.

farrell2k wrote:Will CDRs speed that up just because they are CDRs? lol. no. Don't believe all this dumb crap about moving from outside to in, having data at the beginning of the disc, etc.

With a CDR, the read head does have to move further to read the data than with a GD. With GDs, it will spent most of its time in the outer half of the disc whereas with a CD, who knows where it'll have to load from?
Anyway, a badly dummied warez rip will cause the drive to read and seek more often than normal but then again so will a legit copy of Crazy Taxi and Soul Calibur with their constant BGM reading.

Chaniyth · Post by **Chaniyth** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:41 am

@farell2k

You are misinformed. It WILL kill the drive faster than it should!

When you burn software to a CD-R/CD-RW (homebrew or "backups"), the data gets fragmented all over the CD, while in the case of a commercial GD-ROM the data is defragmented.

farrell2k · Post by **farrell2k** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:07 am

You are only 50% correct. If the iso is built properly, it will have the same directory structure as the original. Kalisto and some other groups were well known for slapping one half of a file at one place, then the other half a mile away, but echelon were masters.

Chaniyth · Post by **Chaniyth** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:49 am

i'm not talking about files, i'm talking about the data itself, the 1's and 0's. It get's fragmented all over the CD-R.

T1z3R · Post by **T1z3R** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:31 pm

if you wanna talk about burning ISO's (whether legal or not) to CD-R then there is no fragmentation taking place. the original ISO is taken in order from the original disk. the ISO is then written to the CD-R in the same order.

talking about the GD drive working harder when it has to read the inner tracks of a CD-R is nonsense. if so then playing music CD's on your DC (which i do a lot) would wear out your GD drive as it has several of its tracks on the inner tracks. . but this is simply is not the case.

a GD drive is no different (mechanically) from a CD drive. it operates in exactly the same way. the only difference is in the drive controller (for reading the extra tracks present on a GD disc) and perhaps the lens itself...nothing more.

at least...this is my understanding of it.

the debate goes on

farrell2k · Post by **farrell2k** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:48 pm

kubyx wrote:i'm not talking about files, i'm talking about the data itself, the 1's and 0's. It get's fragmented all over the CD-R.

No. Burn anything to cd, flip it around and look it. Data is written one sector at a time, from sector 0 through the last.

Kyosuke · Post by **Kyosuke** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:22 pm

Burn away friend.

FFgamer · Post by **FFgamer** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:46 pm

using a cd-r that is a backup will hurt your drive more than an original. The data is more spread out, because the cd is not as dense as the gd, and as a result the drive has to move more to get all the data it needs. Think of it as having 10 basketballs all neat and in one pile, then having to look at each one(GD), vs. having 10 basketballs spread out and having to look at each one(CD). Having them spread out will take mroe time and wear you out more.

farrell2k · Post by **farrell2k** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:47 pm

that makes sense, and i agree with it, but the gd was made to do things like that.

farrell2k · Post by **farrell2k** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:48 pm

I guess the best answer you could give anyone is: Who cares?! Either way, you're probably gonna get at least 5 yers out it

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:18 pm

The "backups" will probably make the drive work a lot harder, since the drive reading mechanism does have to move around the disc a lot more. That shouldn't damage the drive. However, I've noticed that the drive does tend to get very warm when it's working hard (playing Soul Calibur, or a couple of discs I've burned with the data spread all over the disc). If the DC gets too warm, that can cause serious problems (like random resetting) or it could just damage the drive itself.

That's all just a guess, by the way. I really have no idea.

SlammedNiss · Post by **SlammedNiss** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:20 pm

FFgamer wrote:using a cd-r that is a backup will hurt your drive more than an original. The data is more spread out, because the cd is not as dense as the gd, and as a result the drive has to move more to get all the data it needs. Think of it as having 10 basketballs all neat and in one pile, then having to look at each one(GD), vs. having 10 basketballs spread out and having to look at each one(CD). Having them spread out will take mroe time and wear you out more.

then show me some written proof or data that can back up your claims...

I'll be waiting over here in my corner for your reply....

sixteen-bit · Post by **sixteen-bit** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:02 pm

SlammedNiss wrote:
FFgamer wrote:using a cd-r that is a backup will hurt your drive more than an original. The data is more spread out, because the cd is not as dense as the gd, and as a result the drive has to move more to get all the data it needs. Think of it as having 10 basketballs all neat and in one pile, then having to look at each one(GD), vs. having 10 basketballs spread out and having to look at each one(CD). Having them spread out will take mroe time and wear you out more.
then show me some written proof or data that can back up your claims...

I'll be waiting over here in my corner for your reply....

Look at a GDROM (I presume you do actually have one for comparison).
See that thick ring round the outside? That is where the data lies for the DC game.
Look at a CDROM, see the entire area? That's where the data lies for a rip.

Now, the GDROM has its data closer together. The stepping mechanism (the motor and little plastic gears that make the read head move) don't have to travel as much when reading the tight-packed data from the GD as the CD.

Now, being that it is a mechanical device, the simple act of actually using it will cause it to wear and eventually break down and the more you use it, the quicker it will break.
Whether this, ever so slightly, increased usage of the drive to load from a CD is significant or not is still open to debate though.

Oh and for what it's worth, some commercial games do seem to use the drive excessively ingame-- soul calibur being the prominent example so I wouldn't worry about a DC drive dieing anytime soon.

-Johnick- · Post by **-Johnick-** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:32 pm

Actually, the whole file order argument doesnt matter anymore.Darkfalz found a way of getting the proper file order from a GD rom.Ive tried burning a few games with the correct file order and while some make no difference (Resident Evil CV or any other game that has stuff ripped/downsampled) others do (Jet Set Radio and all other games that fit on a cd with nothing ripped/downsampled) and load just as fast as the original, and the drive makes just as much noise as the original to.

I agree with 16bit though, even a backup with the correct file order and a dummy file will put the laser under SLIGHTLY more strain then the original, just like DVD rips do with Ps2 lasers.However, weither its enough to matter is unknown.

Lavalord · Post by **Lavalord** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:17 pm

A simple solution....get a CD-r dedicated Dreamcast and use one for commercial games and one for Homemade ones.

Lavalord

Do CD-Rs or whatever people call "backups" really.

Do CD-Rs or whatever people call "backups" really..

Re: Do CD-Rs or whatever people call "backups" really..