Software Piracy Laws

[Dr. Doom]

I forget the name, but isn't there a law which states that you are allowed to make backup copies of software that you legally purchased? With the stipulation, of course, that you are the only one who will be using the software?

The reason I'm asking is because I sold a computer for someone on eBay. They can't find the original Win2000 disk, so I'm sending the customer a backup copy he made. Isn't this legal? After all, he owns the original software (though it's currently misplaced) and as the new owner, the eBay buyer is legally entitled to using that backup disk, right?

Please help with any information you could provide.

[SonicJam]

Well, first off, that's a difficult quesiton, and you'll be getting lots of opinions and nto facts... secondly, if you're asking merely cause you don't want to break the law and get a lashing, sending Windows 2000 on a CD won't get you caught and fined... so if you're worried, don't, if you're a super good person who completely cares about these little laws, then good for you.

[Forum Man]

It is legal but had to have a copy but you knew that but he has show you something that will let know that he had the if not your in big crap so it's always best to find out if the person has the software before you send him a backup copy.

[Adri_Magnon]

Hi,

I forget the name, but isn't there a law which states that you are allowed to make backup copies of software that you legally purchased? With the stipulation, of course, that you are the only one who will be using the software?

I think that this is most states. However, you have to have the original. If you have Win98 SE as the original CD you can back it up. But, if you ever lose the original or sell it, you have to destroy the backup(s). This might be different where you are or when dealing with the thing below.

The reason I'm asking is because I sold a computer for someone on eBay. They can't find the original Win2000 disk, so I'm sending the customer a backup copy he made. Isn't this legal? After all, he owns the original software (though it's currently misplaced) and as the new owner, the eBay buyer is legally entitled to using that backup disk, right?

Please help with any information you could provide.

Oddly, I don'tt hink it is legal to sell backed up software over the internet and have it be completely legal. You might be able to, provided the buyer electronically signs an agreement stating that they own an original, the laws of their country or state allow them to own a backup and that they will destroy the software should at any point their owning it becomes illegal. This is what the old ROM sites I used to go to had. Also, look at the warning that porn sites have that say that you are allowed to view their material or that you are at least 18 years old.

If you really wanted to be safe, have the buyer sign a contract or get a notarized document to say that they have the original and they will not hold you accountable for any violation of copyright laws. If you can get them to sign and fax or send you something like...

I, "buyers name," do own a fully legal and copy of the operating system Microsoft Windows 2000. I am requesting a backup from "sellers name here." I have told the seller that I own an original, legal copy of the software and therefore hold him/her not responsible for any legal situation in which the back up he/she is sending might be or become illegal under the laws of his/her state and mine.

X_______________________
witness__________________"

Really, why wouldn't they just drive image their working drive, if they have Win2000 installed on another computer. Or, why wouldn't they make their own backups. Or, they could get their own backup.

Did you say that you would provide the software with the system? If not, I don't believe you have any legal obligation to.

Your best bet might be to contact ebay and explain the situation to them and see what they say. Also, I would, if I cared about the chacne of getting in trouble, have them sign something saying that they own an original copy and it is misplaced. Even then I think you could still get in trouble, but you can prove that you were decieved by the buyer and maybe that counts for something.

Generally, I don't give out backups of software unless the person A) can't make their own B) needs the software to do some non-profit thing like using 3D Studio Max 4 to make a model for Unreal Tournament and then delete the program.

I used to be a warez fiend and horder, and I still have a fair collection of warez. I did however, get inda tired of it. I have things I never used and probably never will. I went from baby-warezer (someone who gets the software from the internet and then finds the cracks) to a low level-mature warezer (someone who still gets the programs from the internet, but can do their own cracks or 'reverse engineering') to someone who only uses (with two exceptions) complete freeware on their computer.

I'm just trying to say that from all the stuff I have experienced and heard, I would probably either have the buyer send an e-mail at the very least saying they have the software and such or I would tell them where to get it (newsgroups) and let them do the work.

Good luck,

AdriMagnon

P.S. On laws, I beleieve that you can find information at Cornell Law or on a related law newsgroup.

[toastman]

If there is a post concerning Copyright Law, Adri Magnon shall appear out of the blue and post.

[Veggita2099]

I understand you can only backup a peice of software to the same media (cd-rom program to a CD-Rom) That is why it is illegal to own roms of NES games that you own. A Rom is not a legit backup of a NES cartridge.

I think its stupid myself. IF you own the game you should be allowed to have a legit backup. Or software companies should have a policy on what to do if your cd-type media breaks. Seems like no matter how hard you try cd type media's always scratch cause there very fragile. And if they get stepped on then thats it!

Obviously when you pay 50 bucks for a program your not paying for that CD media. The CD Media probably cost them about 3 dollars to put together, if that. Your paying for the program on the media. Far as I am concerned when you buy that program it is yours. So what happens if you step on the cd or the cd breaks? You spend another 50 dollars for a replacement media. That isn't right! You all ready paid for the software, there should be away you can send your defective media and say $5 and get it replaced. I even remember back in the old days computer software manuals always said "Be sure to make a backup of this disk". But you read in a Gamecube manual and it will say something about It is illegal and not neccesary to back up this game. Yea those mini-dvd's must be made of the same stuff superman is made then since there obvious invulerable to damage. Of course at this time there is no known way to back them up, but point being if there was it WOULD be in the interest of the person who bought the game to be able to back it up.

Oh in your case I don't think your 100% legal to do that since that other person didn't prove he/she owned that. But seriously people sell pc's with a OS installed all the time. My friend bought a laptop from a company and it had windows 2000 pre-installed on it. But there was no back-up media.

[EvilSporkMan]

Backup copies are allowed or not in the license agreement for the software, so look there.

[Wasgo]

Quick answers:
Backups do not need to be on the same media. Laws were written when the majority of backups were from disks to tape drives. The backup does not require the original, that's the whole point. And the EULA (End User License Agreement) cannot restrict guranteed rights, and if they try it would be struck down in court. The only exception being the DMCA which seems to supercede fair use.

[Adri_Magnon]

Hi,

If there is a post concerning Copyright Law, Adri Magnon shall appear out of the blue and post.

Yeah Baby! I'm on it like white on rice!

AdriMagnon

[farrell2k]

ok here's how things work.

Backing up copyrighted material: 100% legal as long as you DO NOT circumvent anti-copy encryption procedures, such as macrovision protection, with something like decss. Courts have viewed this as infringing on a company's intellectual property rights.

Selling backups: Illegal 100% - legal if you include original disk, and the original was not copy protected e.g. a DVD.

These queer backup sites like Jamey's backups, belonging to a relative of a certain DCemulation preson, are 10000000000% ILLEGAL, even if the buyer owns the original. - You cannot sell someone elses copyrighted work without their permission, no matter the circumstance.

Selling a PC on ebay - it would technically be illegal because you are NOT providing the original OS CD. Best bet is to have the OS installed on the HDD and ship it like that.

*It is illegal to have any nes snes roms, etc because there were copy protection methods in the cartridges. You circumvent them nd you violate nintendo's intellectual property rights.

* When you buy a piece of software of a dvd movie, you do NOT own that movie or that piece of software; you are given right to use it in its original form. You own the CD it was written to, but not the contents that were written.... how gay is that!? Anywho, It was established in the 80s that you are allowed to backup your software, games, and movies; however, with the dmca, you are not allowed to circumvent any sort of copy protection. In my opinion, this is unconstitutional. Companies have the right to protect their copyrighted works, but the do not have the right to deny us our fair use rights.

It's like the old stoy goes: Big corporations have the money, the lawyers, and the law makers in their pockets, so they are getting away infringing on our fair use rights; however, without these big companies, we probably wouldn't be able to experiencethe quality of living (200 channel cable, cheap movies etc.) we currently do.

Thanks,
Tom - Your resident law student!

[Prophet][]

If you include the licence on the manual, thats usally ok too