Sega is evil!

[dude322mg]

O...K... how the hell would you know that I run back-ups?

Because I remember when you started on this site you ran a hotline server that had DCwarez on it, and in your early posting life you were very obvious.

And even if I did run back-up's, EVERYONE hear runs CD-R's on there dreamcasts whether it'd be back-ups, emu's, homebrew games

Answered above by BlackAura, the way an emulator and warezed game run from a cdr are different. Emus and roms access the drive for a limited time, but a backup game is constantly using the drive and making it work harder.

Sorry, I didnt mean to quote you, I meant to quote Jabba because I dont remember him even being around back then. I could be wrong though.

[CupNoodle]

Those PSX and PS2s were not the launch versions. They were probably 6th revision PS2, and at least 3rd or 4th revision PSX. By then, they had sorted out a lot of the problems, but the original Japanese PSX/PS2s were very badly made.

then thats probably the case, my PS2 is version 4 btw, and didnt the original psx have to be turned upside down to play certain games?

[BlackAura]

I think I heard something like that. The original PSXs were really bad, as were the PS2s. I know that a lot of early PSX systems stopped reading discs altogether, or only read them if you hit the console, or turned it upside down, or only on the first day of June when it's raining before 8PM.

Unfortunately for us, Sega never had time to fix any problams with the DC before they pulled the plug on it, so if the GD drives are prone to wearing out, they never changed the design. Oh wel...

[zickfun]

i have a dc that's 7 months old bought 2nd hand with all my savings and i play backup's and real game's and emulator's and it hasn't stuff once

[zickfun]

not....

[The Kron]

not....

I guarantee you it will completely overwork your motor if you continue using backups, and eventually your DC wont read any type of GD/CD.

[zickfun]

i only got 10 backup's (inc. emulators)

[Epsilon-Eagle]

"Answered above by BlackAura, the way an emulator and warezed game run from a cdr are different. Emus and roms access the drive for a limited time, but a backup game is constantly using the drive and making it work harder."

What about Garou MOTW and Gekka no Kenshi? These two games can't be healthy for the drive i'm sure, much less so than using ISOs.

[The Kron]

What about Garou MOTW and Gekka no Kenshi? These two games can't be healthy for the drive i'm sure, much less so than using ISOs.

Garou and Blade are both ports mate, optimised/designed for the GD-rom files system, playing originals of those 2 wont affect your DC any more than any other GD.

[Epsilon-Eagle]

If you say so dude, my DC is giving off more heat than it used to so I might need to get a new power supply if that's the cause. I was worried that Garou was simply making it worse.

[Adri_Magnon]

Hi,

First of all think about this:

1) Jimmy has a Dreamcast.
2) Jimmie's Dreamcast doesn't play games anymore.
3) Jimmie's DC died becasue he used Warez!

Is that statement correct? No, it's not. I am assuming without any knowledge or reason that Warez/Backups were the cause. What about:

1) Jimmy has a Dreamcast.
2) Jimmie's Dreamcast doesn't play games anymore.
3) Warez will break a DC.
4) Jimmy used Warez.
5) Warez broke Jimmie's DC.

Now I am making a broad, sweeping statement. So, it can be inferred that ONLY warez will break a DC, since had Jimmy used only good store bought GD-ROMs, he'd be fine. This can be seen in:

1) Jimmy has a Dreamcast.
2) Warez will break a Dreamcast.
3) Jimmy didn't use Warez.
4) Warez didn't break Jimmie's DC.
5) Jimmie's DC is NOT broken.

There, all fine and dandy. If the statement above this is true, then the one above that is true. However, in only ONE DC was returned to the manufacturer before the backups/warez were developed, both the statements are wrong.

Also, in all of these I never explained the details. If you would agree with the middle one, then would you agree with this:

1) Jimmy has a Dreamcast.
2) Jimmie's DC is brokem.
3) Jimmie's controllers aren't being found in any port.
4) Warez will break a DC.
5) Jimmy used Wraez.
6) Warez broke Jimmie's DC.

We know that sometimes the DC breaks. It's one of the laws of entropy. My care engine breaks, the rubber on tires wears down over time - there is little that can be done wbout it.

Also, this can be refuted by someone simply providing a broken DC that never used a backup.

The information is mixed and since I can say I use and many of my fellow DCers use Backups and Originals, that my.

Second, it says here:

http://mozcom.com/~sknkwrks/gdcontroller.html

"Sega had their "proprietary" GD-ROM system designed to use media with 2 times the capacity of CD-ROM discs, but with off-the-shelf CD-ROM components, and may have used a technique of running the spindle motor at half the speed required for CD-ROM's in reading 2x density GD-ROM discs-- tricking the pickup into believing it's reading off data from a CD-ROM disc at "x" (CAV) spindle rpm when it is actually reading a GD-ROM disc at "y" spindle rpm (x divided by 2=y). With same data read rates as with a CD-ROM disc running at twice it's rpm, the optical head, focus servo controls, signal processors, etc etc. aren't aware it's actually reading data off from a larger capacity medium. In other words, the GD-ROM disc is nothing more than a "passively accelerated" (tightly packed) CD-ROM disc, "decelerated" to emulate a CD-ROM by running the spindle motor at half the rpm! "

not....

I guarantee you it will completely overwork your motor if you continue using backups, and eventually your DC wont read any type of GD/CD.

It looks like, if the website qouted above is true, that an original GD-ROM will spin the DC faster than a normal CD-ROM. Now here's the tricky stuff, how fast does the backup spin?

1) The backup spins at the speed of a CD-ROM.
2) The backup spins faster than the speed of the CD-ROM.
3) The backup spins slower than the speed of the CD-ROM.

4) The backup spins faster than a CD-ROM, but slower than a GD-ROM.
5) The backup spins at the same speed of the the GD-ROM.
6) The backup spins faster than the GD-ROM.

If it is any of 1 through 3, I feel that it would cause no problem. In fact, then I would say that the Backup will save wear and tear on the GD drive.
If it is 4 through 6 it changes.

4) If so, the backup might cause damage becasue the GD-ROM is not meant to spin that slow. However, I doubt this becasue if it can't spin that slow it won't.
5) If it is this then it doesn't matter what type of disc does it, the same amount of wear and tear will exist.
6) Again, the magic Backup is forcing the drive to spin in a way it wasn't designed to. If so, then it might be the culprit. Disassemble the drive and test EVRY component till the faulty piece is found.

Third, on a site that has anti-backup and warez feelings, it is not unlikely to see people saying that warez/backups are the scapegoat for everything. If you want to be "right" on something, prove it by showing links to sites that say that warez/backups are destroying DCs.

I have been messing with Warez/Backups for awhile and never once has seen anything negative about them destroying DCs come up. And I never saw that mentioned in any of the searching I did on their legality. There was not a release I saw that went:

"Sega Gets Last Laugh.

Today, Sega announced that backed up copies of games for their now retired Dreamcast are destroying GD-ROM drives."

Alos, Sega would do best to say so cause they can't tell what was used on the DC and if 1000 people have a DC under warranty and they send the DCs back, Sega is gonna have to replace them.

Incidently, I was gonna be an engineer and is school, we learned about tolerances. There is a chance that out of 1000 DCs produced, the components in 1 of them might make it fail. This is a natural part of life. In Consumer Reports, the cars are rated on how many out of some number (lets say 1000) develop the same problems as the others. So if one DC out of 100 breaks, then there is a 1% chance of failure. Also, lets be specific. If one DC'd GD-ROM breaks out of 100, then there is a 1% chance that a DC will have it's GD-ROM break.

This is simple nad doesn't incluide that out of the 99 left, that they will play GD-ROMs forever, somehow immune to the physical limitations.

You can screw up your DC, and this is one thing I have herad and reasoned possible but not verified, by turning up the power of the drive lazer. But someone might do it and have their DC work till 2020 with no problems with anything.

There is an abridged article here that will help you/us/I to make better decisions and arguments.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html

And finally, one might notice that if the GD-ROM is made with off the shelf parts, then off the shelf parts can fix it. In which case, if you can't or don't want to do it yourself, a place that fixes CD-ROMs or anything electronic could probably do it for you.

AdriMagnon

[JDCreationz]

I used to believe that Sega intended Dreamcasts to
have a minimal life span so that they could make
sales off the people who have to buy new ones

[Jeeba Jabba]

O...K... how the hell would you know that I run back-ups?

Oh and I never had a problem with my playstation or my PS2. Yet all my sega systems break. And even if I did run back-up's, EVERYONE hear runs CD-R's on there dreamcasts whether it'd be back-ups, emu's, homebrew games, ect... ect...

Yeah, Sadly to say, Most of the Sega systems do break. I dont know how many hundreds of people I've heard say that they're Genesis broke. Many people bought a Genesis 3 times over.

[Jeeba Jabba]

Indeed... "Jordan" was around then

He was talking about Jabba2442. Not me

[The Kron]

adri its really dissapointing as you ALWAYS feel you have to defend Warez (it seems like the only posts you make), to be honest people will care less for your opinion as your doing yourself 0 favours by taking that direction.

The fact is that there is a massive section of DC owners who have perfectly working Dreamcasts (try a search to find out "how do I repair my dreamcast and 10/10 times this has been placed on a warez board), (my DC was Japanese launch) and has seen at least 300 different imports and Domestic titles played through it, I have never played a single backup through it and it works perfectly, yet you turn to the hardware mod and help forum and you constantly see posts from people saying how their DC has *mysteriously* decided not to recognise a single game cd "even backups" which they tend to annoyingly add, its seems a little too much like bad luck that the same symptomns happen time and time again to people who continually use backups. If you read any gaming boards like TNL or Gaming Age people who have more respect than warezers for their gaming equiptment seem to have perfectly working game systems as they dont choose to the wrong option.

If you want to use backups thats your loss, but its a case of when rather than if with all people who run copies, to be honest they deserve all that they get as well.

[Adri_Magnon]

Hi,

adri its really dissapointing as you ALWAYS feel you have to defend Warez (it seems like the only posts you make), to be honest people will care less for your opinion as your doing yourself 0 favours by taking that direction.

I do not ALWAYS feel I have to defend warez. My last posts here are Diagnosing a GD-ROM that has a broken power swicth ( http://www.dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18014 ), a link to a GD-ROM in detail ( http://www.dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18649 ), and this post here. I alos have posted indepth and endlessly on the subject of increasing the DC's RAM and, after it was suggested, swapping the SH5 in for the SH4.

My post on this topic by the way is not to defend Warez but to point out the flawed logic in assuming that all warez will break a GD-ROM drive.

I post at the bottom a link to an abridged version of Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit. It says, shortened:

"The following are suggested as tools for testing arguments and detecting fallacious or fraudulent arguments:

* Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the facts
* Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.
* Arguments from authority carry little weight (in science there are no "authorities").
* Spin more than one hypothesis - don't simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.
* Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours.
* Quantify, wherever possible.
* If there is a chain of argument every link in the chain must work.
* "Occam's razor" - if there are two hypothesis that explain the data equally well choose the simpler.
* Ask whether the hypothesis can, at least in principle, be falsified (shown to be false by some unambiguous test). In other words, it is testable? Can others duplicate the experiment and get the same result?


"Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric

# Appeal to ignorance (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
# Observational selection (counting the hits and forgetting the misses).
# Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - "it happened after so it was caused by" - confusion of cause and effect.
# Excluded middle - considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities (making the "other side" look worse than it really is).
# Confusion of correlation and causation."

I saw flaws in the argument that warez/backups cause problems. In fact, I agree that Warez is bad. I have posted on it. I also have said that I believe Backups to be good and legal. I have contacted Sega and gotten two diifferent answers. In fact, knowing that the words Warez and Backups are used to mean the same thing I did so in my argument here earlier. Then, to shorten it, I chose the Backups.

The same is in the argument that I ALWAYS defend warez and that it seems like that is all I post on. I would say this a statement of exclusion on my other posts. If you want to prove your point now that my leanings are like this then do a search on my name and then post the topic link and then qoute the part of my post, remember to take it in context and I will respond. If you do this, and keep it fair;ly civil and logical, I will have no problem with discussing it. If in the end I have been shown wrong, I will admit it. I will however, if they are not, point out why.

On this site, under search, it says I have 68 search returns. That's not awhole lot, but go ahead and count and see in which ones I am in favor of warez. In fact, on several I remember someone chiming in that I was in favor of warez and some other poster would point out that I never said that.

Maybe our definitions are different. Here's mine:

Warez - Copies of sotware made illegaly. Warez is also software that is illegal to won.
Backups - Copies of software mame legally. backups can be owned as long as it is legal in that country or state.

I called Sega, first person I talked to aid it was absolutely okay and legal o backup my DC games even after I asked if that included downsamplig the audio. I could have been fine but I wanted to make REALLY sure it was so I asked for more information. The next guy said flatly piracy is piracy. But he couldn't really tell my why so he offered that if I e-mail what I want to know exaclty, he would forward it to the Seag legal department. I have not heard back since.

In all fairness, have you called Sega? I posted the number. In fact, on almost all my posts I provide the link to the information I am using so it can be confirmed. I get the feeling that nobody really checks, but I feel at the end of my post that I did my best. I neither tried to lie or hide behind some statement to try and prove I was right.

One last thing on Warez, my computer used to be a warez machine. I had tons of illegal and pirate programs. One day, I wondered if it was possible to have a computer Win32 based that had nothing but free software. And I mean free, not shareware of adware. The result is my computer is using Windows 98 warez and McAffe Virus Scan Warez. EVERYTHING else is free. I use Open Office instead of Office XP, GIMP instead of Photoshop, CDRecod and command line utilities instead of Nero or EasyCd.

I read about Warez and feel I've grown. I've also consulted a lawyer on the subject of DC game backups. It seemed that it all revolves around if the GD-ROM copy protection id covered by the DMCA. I mentioned this in my other posts. Oddly enough, even if it isn't, it is illegal to make DVD copies into DivX yet this site has advised that in certain posts. I've also seen the advice that someone go rent a DC and swap ports and then return it. I have not defended Warez. The only thing I would defend in relation to that is that everyone has a right to make their choices and if using warez is one of them then so be it. I do not think Warez should be legalized. I think that there are laws and they generally should be followed (if you want the exceptions ask and I'll post them or PM them.)

Most of my time here has been trying to show that there is another side to the arguments. I know that humans by nature will try not to do work so I made following up on my posts easy. Hell, in that long one on the legalities of backups I posted links to BOTH SIDES of the argument.

The fact is that there is a massive section of DC owners who have perfectly working Dreamcasts (try a search to find out "how do I repair my dreamcast and 10/10 times this has been placed on a warez board),

Post the links to either the search engine you used of the ten sites. I can argue the same that this site is all about warez also. How? Becasue the logic used in the argument above says:

If the question on Dreamcast repair has been asked on a board, that board deals with warez.

There are posts here on that subject and that does not mean this is a Warez board as it obviously is not. The logic above is flawed as by this idea of the Baloney Detection kit:

"Confusion of correlation and causation."

The detection kit is only to help people make their own judgements better. You would like ask me, if I was selling you a DC, questions about and it use the principles above. Why not use those same ones in the process of arguments?

(my DC was Japanese launch) and has seen at least 300 different imports and Domestic titles played through it, I have never played a single backup through it and it works perfectly, yet you turn to the hardware mod and help forum and you constantly see posts from people saying how their DC has *mysteriously* decided not to recognise a single game cd "even backups" which they tend to annoyingly add, its seems a little too much like bad luck that the same symptomns happen time and time again to people who continually use backups. If you read any gaming boards like TNL or Gaming Age people who have more respect than warezers for their gaming equiptment seem to have perfectly working game systems as they dont choose to the wrong option.

Can you explain why the DC would break with a backup having been used? Can you verify this? Can you post links to site that agree with your argument? I explained why I thought/think it is highly unlikely that a backup would break a DC or increase the wear. Did you read that? Did you agree or disagree? What did you take exception with if you disagreed? I thought I made it easy for other to argue logically with me at all times. Have I?

I can see no evidence that the backups have caused the problems. Provide the evidence and I will review it and change my mind if needed. However, I expect that out of courtesy, you would do the same if it shows that backups do not cause the problem. Will you agree to this?

If you want to use backups thats your loss, but its a case of when rather than if with all people who run copies, to be honest they deserve all that they get as well.

Again, I would like to see proof or data to support this. Since I have seen none, even on the newsgroups where I got my warez/backup/copies/evil, whatever you want to call it, you can see why I do not think that backups cause problems.

Hey, I just got an idea! Why don't you call Sega's technical support line and ask? Post the number and what they said. How about it?

As far as the thing earlier about me doing myself no favors by the directions I take, I have found no problem in it. I care little for what someone I don't know thinks about my posts.

Kron, I am sorry if you find my posts annoying. You have no need to read or respond to them. If I am the worse you have to ever put up with in life, in as far as people who annoy you, I am impressed by you and would hope you are happy that I am such a minor irratation.

Until my site had problems, I had a page on how to get backups/warez from the newsgroups. I had in big red letters at the begining the statement:

"**Disclaimer: Neither I, this site, Sega, the programs listed below or ANYONE is responsible for what you do with this information. It is here becasue I believe knowledge should be uncensored and free. No book banning on this site. So do with the info as you will. If anything bad happens, no one but you is responsible!!!**"

Book banning was a link to currentl;y banned books. I also believe in sharing and so on that same page I have:

"Look at the bottom post by dgdave. In his header he says "First Time (games) Max Steel(time to give back)." What he is saying is that he felt that it was time he posted a game in return for all the games and help he has gotten from the group. He was not required to. He did this because he wanted too to help foster sharing and the wellbeing of the group. It is people like him and ONLY like him that keep newsgroups alive. When a group no longer gets posters it dies or becomes extinct. If you get a game you like, and one day someone asks for it, really consider posting it. It won't hurt. In fact, if you post you can request a game you want. It's win-win."

I never have meant to attack you, if I have, and if I have wronged you I am sorry.

As far as warez, I lean towards anti-warez, only cause I think there are better ways. I also think that if you are gonna do warez you should learn to do your own cracks and patches. With backups, I am mixed becasue my calls and research have left me thinking it can go either way. With arguing, I still believe that it should be done with verifiable resources. I will be more than happy to see evidence that is contrary to my current point of view. Also, if the evidence is first filtered with the baloney detection kit or filtered of all unverifable data that might have caused the problems, I am evem more so happy.

DCs will break down. Whether or not backups/warez cause or accelerated it is unverifiable. From what I know of the GD-ROM and my readings it is not possible. It might be, but I would need to see the reasons and evidence and find no flaws in the data.

Sincerely,

AdriMagnon

P.S. At the bottom of my page under recoomended sites I had:

DCEmulation: This site deals with all the available emulators that are available for the DreamCast. Yes. You can play NES or Sega Genesis or Atari games on your DreamCast like new. You can also get the webbrowser, self booting guides and lost of links and info on the DC. They also have a forum (messageboard) where you can find help. !!!WARNING: They do not tolerate questions on backups or copying games!!! The forum is best for questions like "NesterDC isn't loading" or "When I use MamedC it reboots after several minutes." Also note that people have ported Linux to the DreamCast too.

[-Johnick-]

Get a spare DC.I have 2 DC's,both play CDR's.

[mariobro]

Wow, very intelligent, logical, reply.

These controversial topics should be discussed in the open, leaving puritanism behind. It's the only way to really combat piracy. Otherwise, the piracy business will become something like the drug business. I'm serious. It's already an enormous "underground" economy that lives on selling other people's work at dirt-cheap prices. But just like drugs, nobody wants to talk about it.

And also, like drugs, there are "respectable" narcotics, like alcohol and tobacco. Those would be MP3 and CD-Rs, in the data business. Nobody seems to think that the commercial use of MP3s is illegal. So I guess the BSA has done a much better job than the RIAA.

And if you think warez are a big problem (which they are), you should go to Asia or Latin America. Here, there are people who THINK that the pirated games for sale in street markets are originals. Yes, they're that good. A 12 year-old couldn't tell the difference between a copy and an original. (silk screened CD label, cover art,etc.). You know why the N64 flopped in Latin America? People said: "Nintendo is crazy. The games are too expensive, while the PS games are very cheap" Those cheap games were pirate copies. The N64 is seen as a rich-kid's console, while the PS is almost as popular as the NES was in its heyday!

Sony will admit off the record that piracy helped the PS a LOT in the international market.

Who left the CD-R backdoor in the DC? Why? Who leaked information about its existence?

Could it be that company executives just say: "Don't worry about piracy losses in Latin America and Asia. We'll make up for them in the US, Japan and Europe. Anyway, their consoles will break from playing copies, and they'll have to get more".

I'll admit this is X-files territory. I'm just speculating.

But if you're serious about piracy, you'll act like Nintendo. But it will hurt your worldwide sales. A friend just bought a GameCube. And he was very disappointed when he looked around for pirate copies, and found out there weren't anywhere to be found. That's how widespread piracy is in some countries. IT WILL INFLUENCE PEOPLE'S CHOICE OF A CONSOLE.

So how does Ikaruga for 30 cents sound to you? WEEKS before official release. Just drive to your local street market, and it's yours. That's a pretty damn big temptation for a lot of people to pass up.

But as always, in any country, the hardcore gamer will insist on original games.

However, many American and European friends who come here, see the market stalls with pirated games and music, and buy as much as they can, for personal use, and to sell them when they go back home. Just last Sunday, a French friend bought EVERY PS2 game on display (27). The street merchant thought it was Christmas... he got them at 20 cents of a Dollar a pop... He also bought some other illegal stuff (which I mentioned earlier...) to sell in France. Go figure.

So, it's a shady topic, and a very complex one at that. Unless it's dealt with by those involved (consumers, manufacturers, institutions, governments), it won't go away.

I hope I don't get banned. I just wanted to offer a wider perpspective...

[The Kron]

No 1 Adri, why do you want 2 sides when it comes to a Warez/Backup argument? Cant you see the slightly obvious right from wrong here? and why do you incessantly need to defend the use of copied software?

And if you do a search for yourself no need to call a lawyer or any other pointless excercise you will see countless corporate site that have legal facts in the form of a faq (this applies to rom and ISOs), This example is from Nintendos homepage:

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

If you want to read any more of it head to:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/faqs/legal.html

That's how widespread piracy is in some countries. IT WILL INFLUENCE PEOPLE'S CHOICE OF A CONSOLE.

That makes zero consequence to games companies as they make their profits from selling software not hardware, knowing they have sold 1 console to a person who will only play backups during the duration of owning the console is not a positive.

[Adri_Magnon]

Hi,

First, thanks for taking the time to do some research on the internet. It makes things easier and verifiable.

No 1 Adri, why do you want 2 sides when it comes to a Warez/Backup argument? Cant you see the slightly obvious right from wrong here? and why do you incessantly need to defend the use of copied software?

Maybe I misunderstand this. Please put down you definitions of a "backup" and of "warez." Don't worry about feeling condescending towards me, just make sure I understand.

Like I said earlier, warez = illegal, backups = legal. So by this, IF this is right, there has to be two sides.

And maybe a better description in the last sentence qouted is "why do you incessantly need to defend the use of copied software by the people who bought it in the first place, if they agree not to give out copies?"

Also, I have explained in these ( http://www.dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18060 , http://www.dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15518 ) posts why it is so hard to get a clear view on the legality of backups.

And if you do a search for yourself no need to call a lawyer or any other pointless excercise you will see countless corporate site that have legal facts in the form of a faq (this applies to rom and ISOs), This example is from Nintendos homepage:

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

If you want to read any more of it head to:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/faqs/legal.html

Let me show you why it is hard for me to find to find an answer. I can read your quote from the FAQ and say "Jeepers! It is illegal." But what if I do a search. I found this on my first try:

"Can I Back Up PlayStation Games?

Remember, we neither endorse nor encourage software piracy in any form. Using a backup for anything other than personal archives violates the law. "

This is from TechTV! http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answ ... 93,00.html

So right there is a discrepency. Also, the nintendo qoute you used dealt with the question "Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game? "

That is different from copying a CD. Also, some or the other Nintendo things from that FAQ are:

"How Come Nintendo Does Not Take Steps Towards Legitimizing Nintendo Emulators?

Nintendo Emulators promote piracy. That's like asking why doesn't Nintendo legitimize piracy. It doesn't make any business sense. It's that simple and not open to debate.

"Are Game Copying Devices Illegal?

Yes. Game copiers enable users to illegally copy video game software onto floppy disks, writeable compact disks or the hard drive of a personal computer. They enable the user to make, play and distribute illegal copies of video game software which violates Nintendo's copyrights and trademarks. These devices also allow for the uploading and downloading of ROMs to and from the Internet. Based upon the functions of these devices, they are illegal.

"Can Websites and/or Internet Content Providers be Held Liable for Violation of Intellectual Property Rights if they are Only Providing Links to Illegal Software and/or Other Illegal Devices?

Yes. Personal Websites and/or Internet Content Providers sites That link to Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo emulators and/or illegal copying devices can be held liable for copyright and trademark violations, regardless of whether the illegal software and/or devices are on their site or whether they are linking to the sites where the illegal items are found. "

The last is particularly scary. That means that by Nintendo's own FAQ, this site can be held liable because Nintendo says "sites That link to Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo emulators and/or illegal copying devices." That means that the links to NesterDC and DreamSNES violate Nintendo's laws and can be held accountable.

So, knowing this, will all links and information to Nintendo game emulators be removed? If not, why?

There's a number on that FAQ that allows you to report "Potential Infringements" to Nintendo Products. And, that would mean some one could call on this site.

So, by Nintendo's own FAQ this site is liable for infringement even thought there are no links to ROMs. Some possible explanations are that the FAQ is wrong, the FAQ is right, this site is illegal, this site is legal, or any mix of the above. Also, the quote used earlier reguarding "second copy" responded to the use of ROMs. If ROMs are different than CDs then there is a discrepency and the truth of the matter will require further searching.
By TechTVs own site, "Using a backup for anything other than personal archives violates the law." So that means that as long as you use a back up for archival purposes, you are not violating any law and legal.
By looking at my past posts and reading them and the links you'll find that some of the links are to the U.S. Government's law and articles, whcich seem to favor backups.
One last thing. It is possible that Sega will say that Back ups are legal and Warez is not. There is a distinction. I say this because I read or heard once that requardng this site a company was helping so it was deemed good or legal or something. I can't seem to find mention of that in the FAQs, though.

Cheers,

AdriMagnon