State of the Wii - Graphics, Sound, Controls.

[ace]

Been done before, I know.

I've recently migrated to my Wii after my Xbox 360 suffered a general hardware failure. Jus before the 360 failed I had finished Alpha Protocol, Red Dead Redemption and my third play through of Mass Effect 2.

I've had a Wii nearly since launch, and its spent most of the time in the box. Sure it comes it for occasional party games of tennis, but with so little time to game, I mostly stuck to the more "hardcore" 360.

Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun. I just finished Goldneye (way too short). I'm also really into Okami (fucking epic), Super Mario Galaxy, Bully, Little Kings Story, House of The Dead Overkill (an absolute must), Trauma Team, Zelda: TWP and about a half dozen others.

Im really trying not to be a graphics whore, but I find it difficult with the state of Wii graphics. I appreciate unique art direction and innovation, and that's why a game like Okami still looks brilliant today, despite being a PS2 port. But why do Wii games have to be so devoid of shaders, reflections, transparencies, realistic water, VOICE ACTING? It's unfortunate to look back at consoles like the original Xbox, and indeed even Gamecube (Rogue Squadron) and see advances that still aren't common with Wii games.

I get the lack of third party support. I get the lack of HD hardware. I get the lack of advanced licensed engines. I get that the environment may be harder to code for. I'm not saying the games aren't fun. I just want my production values.

</rant>

[ace]

Damn that's a bad post. Ah well fuck it, I meant it.

[Specially Cork]

I gave up on Nintendo once they refused to translate Last Story into English. If you guys grew up with Nintendo and want to bumsex them forever go for it, but if Nintendo's games are so awesome, they should stop making hardware nobody cares about and produce them for better systems. It's been well over a decade now since Nintendo have managed to produce a good home console with an acceptable lifespan - and anyone who wants to argue with that won't manage to without mentioning Nintendo's games - great titles that would SAVE ME MONEY on hardware if they just went third-party. Fuck em.

Oh, and region protection on 3DS? Suck my balls.

[DanteJay]

It's been well over a decade now since Nintendo have managed to produce a good home console with an acceptable lifespan

While what you're saying is technically true, I don't think you're being entirely fair. The GameCube's hardware was borderline "acceptable" for it's time. I feel that way because it did at least support 480p over component cables, but unfortunately it did not have a digital output for audio, which became a standard since the PS2. Besides that, at least the GC was quiet, reliable, and compact. The short lifespan was a attributed to bad marketing, plain and simple. Nintendo also chose to avoid licensing DVD video playback, which also hurt their image.

The Wii launching with-out DVD, HDMI and a digital audio-out is completely unacceptable. Although at this point in time most people don't care to have another DVD player in their home.

[Nico0020]

I don't have a wii, and don't really plan on purchasing one anytime. The backcatalog of the online store / emulation options really intrigue me. The Idea of having THE Nintendo console. A Nintendo console that plays everything, and perfectly. But I assume their next console will do it, and do it better.

I'm not sure what to say about Nintendo anymore. I bought a gamecube to play Phantasy Star Online, and for the longest time regretted the purchase. Having the dreamcast just been dumped by sega, and this was a console many people were praising but I just didn't see it then, and I barely see it now. Only played a handful of games on it besides PSO. Metroid Prime, Zelda WW, Zelda TP, Kirby Air Ride, P.N.03, Smash Bros; you know the usual. I have component cables for my GC and it does help step up some of the games. But there is no excuse not to have games in HD on the wii. It cut costs on the console sure, but every wii Ive ever seen hooked up in someones home is on a huge 1080p tv in their living room. So all that says is nintendo knows how to cut corners and make money.

If you guys grew up with Nintendo and want to bumsex them forever go for it

I grew up with a NES and Sega Genesis (not truly discovering the greatness of SNES until emulation) but I recognize what these companies can and can't do. Sega will forever put out subpar games of their old series, and continue to put out compilations of the same games. They will never again make a console, and rarely put out anything that blows me away.
Nintendo, can't make consoles anymore. They will continue to do so, since they can make money on day one by making an outdated console with a shitty but different controller. In the end, thats about it is about, making money. I'll deal with nintendo putting out shitty consoles I guess, as they will continue to push out zelda, metroid and mario games that still pretty damn decent. Though I will only be playing these games on emulation so I can hook up an real gamepad and kiss that motion control bullshit goodbye.

[pixel]

I'm sorry, Nintendo leaving the console business is just the single stupidest thing I've ever heard and I've not grown up with Nintendo or turned my Wii on for months. Because of the success of the DS and Wii Nintendo have the second largest warchest of non-debt money in electronics behind Apple. It may not appeal to us, but neither do tampons and they sell quite well.

Lock this thread. Conversation completed.

[mankrip]

I'm still stuck in the DC era. I've never had a PS2, GC, XB, PS3, WII or 360, and a month ago I've just bought a Dingoo A320, which is the first true handheld I've ever had (cheap cell phones doesn't count).

The insanely cheap price of the Dingoo sealed the deal for me, but what made me want to have one in the first place are the possibilities for developing for it. And for the same reason, the 360 is the only newer console I'd really like to own.

I'd love to explore the potential of the Wiimote and make some games that would fulfill that potential, but that's pretty much out of the question. On the other hand, the 360 seems to be a lot more open to independent R&D, and XBLIG seems to be a quite mature distribution platform.

But anyway, I better probably just save my money and wait for the next wave of consoles. It shouldn't take more than a couple years for MS and Sony to announce what consoles they're going to come up with next. Plus, it'll take many months before I get enough free time to develop anything again, and I've still got a lot to learn.

[Specially Cork]

Sony could have saved me money on their overpriced glossy mess of shit if they produced their games for 360!! Hell, it would even make more sense for Sony to do it with their losses per console than Nintendo with their profit. Sony and MS stared at them while they came out with weaker, cheaper hardware that they made a profit on per unit and destroyed their install base numbers. They even did it twice to Sony including the DS too.

I'm sorry, Nintendo leaving the console business is just the single stupidest thing I've ever heard and I've not grown up with Nintendo or turned my Wii on for months. Because of the success of the DS and Wii Nintendo have the second largest warchest of non-debt money in electronics behind Apple. It may not appeal to us, but neither do tampons and they sell quite well.

They don't bundle tampons with beer. Well done, you've sold my parents a video-game based fitness machine. Now take the stuff that appeals to me (Mario, Zelda...) and stick it somewhere else.

I'm willing to bet Wii is an exception anyway. I don't believe the market they sold the Wii to will buy a follow-up.

[Specially Cork]

My suggestion is only from a selfish consumer point of view. I'm just angry at Nintendo at the moment. Furthermore, while the Wii has been successful in selling to a different demographic, it's worth noting that it's still some 60million units shy of outselling the PS2 - a console that was just for gamers.

For me, that's evidence enough that gamers are still where the money is for consoles, as long as it's the right console. I guess what I'm getting at is: I either want a Nintendo console for gamers (with the 3rd party support of the SNES days), or they can make their money selling stuff to my Mum, and put their "gamer" material on a different platform. I think the Wii suffered an identity crisis in the end.

[Smiley]

Mostly I just use the wii for the homebrew channel to watch movies on.

[mankrip]

Eew.

[melancholy]

I was perfectly fine with the Wii being underpowered all the way up to the day when I realized that my cell phone could put out better visuals than the Wii. After that, the Wii seemed ridiculously dated.

[mrandyk]

Im not even sure they upgraded the graphics from the Gamecube.

[DaMadFiddler]

Eew.

I was just looking at the same thing. I've heard it argued that part of the reason is because they had to squeeze a 1GB game into a 40MB download, and you will notice some environmental details missing (such as grid textures and various other set decorations). But what I don't get is why they downgraded the lighting and removed the shadows. Surely *that* doesn't save a whole lot of space....

To be fair, though, I think (as has been mentioned above) that it's as much laziness on the part of developers as it is the Wii's actual limitations. The Wii is more or less a GameCube with much higher system resources (more memory and much higher clock/bus speeds), but there were still plenty of things done visually on the GameCube and Xbox that nobody bothers to implement on the Wii. It seems that developers are taking advantage of already-low consumer expectations to slack off--since the Wii isn't as good as PS3 and 360, then--even though it's still better than the previous generation--why should they bother to try making things look good at all?

Thus, "the Wii's graphics suck" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[ace]

To be fair, though, I think (as has been mentioned above) that it's as much laziness on the part of developers as it is the Wii's actual limitations. The Wii is more or less a GameCube with much higher system resources (more memory and much higher clock/bus speeds), but there were still plenty of things done visually on the GameCube and Xbox that nobody bothers to implement on the Wii. It seems that developers are taking advantage of already-low consumer expectations to slack off--since the Wii isn't as good as PS3 and 360, then--even though it's still better than the previous generation--why should they bother to try making things look good at all?

Thus, "the Wii's graphics suck" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Precisely. I mean, I get that third party games don't sell very well on the Wii. I do understand on some level why some developers are apprehensive to additional resources on their Wii titles, but when it comes to a game like Tiger Woods/PGA Tour, it's inexcusable. The Wii version still looks essentially the same as the PS2 version. I remember when EA got caught for advertising the 360 version of the, preceded by Tiger using a Wii-mote. EA's defense? The Wii's graphics aren't broadcast quality. Lol.

It's sad when you're best looking game is a first party mascot platformer.

[ace]

Also, why the hell does every developer think that waggle remote = engaging motion controls? If you're simply putting the motion controls in because you can or you feel obligated to because you are coding for the Wii, then you are doing it for the wrong reason. I'd rather button mash than control every Wii game with the same motion. Sure it was fin at first, but it sure got old fast. Think about it - the Wii was supposed to bring a new level of realism/interaction for gamers that would lend an air of authenticity to it's controls. It's all well and good until you realize that you control your katana with a waggle in Red Steel, you reload your gun with that same waggle in House of The Dead, and you dispatch enemies with a similar motion in Super Mario Galaxy.

And there's just no excuse anymore since Wii Motion Plus came out AND Nintendo only seems to sell Wii Motion Plus ready remotes anymore (thanks Nintendo, for making the four additional peripherals I bought COMPLETELY obsolete). Dome games do support Wii Motion Plus; obviously Wii Sports Resort. So does Red Steel 2, although still not 1-1. Again, I understand that developers are apprehensive to develop controls for an optional accessory that not everyone has (Though I bet many do thanks to the bundle with Sports Resort). But EA has developped seperate control schemes in Tiger Woods. I'm sure it really broke the bank.

God damned Wii. With all my complaints I should just break down and get another 360.

[Calavera]

Also, why the hell does every developer think that waggle remote = engaging motion controls? If you're simply putting the motion controls in because you can or you feel obligated to because you are coding for the Wii, then you are doing it for the wrong reason. I'd rather button mash than control every Wii game with the same motion. Sure it was fin at first, but it sure got old fast. Think about it - the Wii was supposed to bring a new level of realism/interaction for gamers that would lend an air of authenticity to it's controls. It's all well and good until you realize that you control your katana with a waggle in Red Steel, you reload your gun with that same waggle in House of The Dead, and you dispatch enemies with a similar motion in Super Mario Galaxy.

I have to agree with you somewhat there, I hate the added on motion controls in Donkey Kong Country Returns, I wanted to be able to play it with a GC\Classic Controller

[Nico0020]

Also, why the hell does every developer think that waggle remote = engaging motion controls? If you're simply putting the motion controls in because you can or you feel obligated to because you are coding for the Wii, then you are doing it for the wrong reason. I'd rather button mash than control every Wii game with the same motion. Sure it was fin at first, but it sure got old fast. Think about it - the Wii was supposed to bring a new level of realism/interaction for gamers that would lend an air of authenticity to it's controls. It's all well and good until you realize that you control your katana with a waggle in Red Steel, you reload your gun with that same waggle in House of The Dead, and you dispatch enemies with a similar motion in Super Mario Galaxy.

I have to agree with you somewhat there, I hate the added on motion controls in Donkey Kong Country Returns, I wanted to be able to play it with a GC\Classic Controller

thus when I get a new computer I'll give the wii a go through emulation. Custom controls on a nice 360 pad, and remapping waggle functions to a button will make a lot of games playable again.

[melancholy]

Custom controls on a nice 360 pad, and remapping waggle functions to a button will make a lot of games playable again.

Reeeeally? That would fix my biggest problem with Donkey Kong Country. I think I might investigate this right now.

[Quzar]

I really enjoyed (and found nothing wrong with the graphics of) Murasama, Epic Mickey, and Dokapon Kingdom. Those I think were the last three games I played for the system (aside from Mario Galaxy 2, which enough has been said about), over the course of the last year.

I've never found myself having any sort of standard for graphics, as long as they don't interfere with gameplay.