http://www.3dluvr.com/mindwork/night.html
arquerio has posted other scenes, though -- and they're of the same quality, so it doesn't seem as though they were pasted together... That definitely throws a twist into the banana, though.
Another Screenshot from my DC game
-
aisupikku
- Mental DCEmu
- Posts: 483
- https://www.artistsworkshop.eu/meble-kuchenne-na-wymiar-warszawa-gdzie-zamowic/
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:41 am
- Location: Minneapolis MN
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
Aww...
http://www.3dluvr.com/mindwork/night.html
arquerio has posted other scenes, though -- and they're of the same quality, so it doesn't seem as though they were pasted together... That definitely throws a twist into the banana, though.
http://www.3dluvr.com/mindwork/night.html
arquerio has posted other scenes, though -- and they're of the same quality, so it doesn't seem as though they were pasted together... That definitely throws a twist into the banana, though.
« ˆˆ -ˆ-ˆ ˆ » [ Let's help! Trizeal DC ]
-
DaMadFiddler
- Team Screamcast
- Posts: 7953
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:17 am
- Location: San Francisco, CA
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
- Contact:
Heh...not exactly the same, though. Shenmue was more of an interactive life-sim; this seems to be more a brain-teaser, along the lines of Myst. As far as I know, there wasn't anything like that on DC, although Myst itself was released for Saturn. (And I'm not quite sure, because I don't have the list in front of me at the moment...but I *think* Riven was one of the many, many cancelled PC => DC ports).
*sigh*
Not only do I think that the graphics are swiped, I don't believe for a second that there is even a "game" in development.
Its like this. It takes a long time to create an enjoyable game. And most of the games brewed by fans of the DC usually look pretty mediocre, because most of the games are being made by only one or two people, whose talents are usually coding. Not graphic design or music composition. Even the "professional" quality titles like Feet of Fury and Beats of Rage either have someone whos a dedicated musician, or are using graphics and sound from previous games. And thats not implying any type of disrespect to the homebrew programmers, its just the nature of the beast. I highly doubt that you're gonna see Rand or BlackAura be able to whip up a game enjine, then turn around build 3D environments for them in Lightwave.
So, does Arqueiro want to take credit for those industry-quality screenshots? Fine, I'll take that at face value. But there is NO WAY that I'll believe that he has also had the time to sit down and code over 70% of a game engine, interface, with graphics and sound, without any assistance of any of the other homebrew coders here. Sorry, that's just not feasible to me.
I've been here for a while, and I am definitely not one to attack somone's credibility, especially when it concerns development of another homebrew game. If I'm wrong about Arqueiro, then I will be more than happy to apologize to him, and the entire DC Emulation scene. But from what I've seen, and what I've studied of videogame development, I think this is a hoax.
Not only do I think that the graphics are swiped, I don't believe for a second that there is even a "game" in development.
Its like this. It takes a long time to create an enjoyable game. And most of the games brewed by fans of the DC usually look pretty mediocre, because most of the games are being made by only one or two people, whose talents are usually coding. Not graphic design or music composition. Even the "professional" quality titles like Feet of Fury and Beats of Rage either have someone whos a dedicated musician, or are using graphics and sound from previous games. And thats not implying any type of disrespect to the homebrew programmers, its just the nature of the beast. I highly doubt that you're gonna see Rand or BlackAura be able to whip up a game enjine, then turn around build 3D environments for them in Lightwave.
So, does Arqueiro want to take credit for those industry-quality screenshots? Fine, I'll take that at face value. But there is NO WAY that I'll believe that he has also had the time to sit down and code over 70% of a game engine, interface, with graphics and sound, without any assistance of any of the other homebrew coders here. Sorry, that's just not feasible to me.
I've been here for a while, and I am definitely not one to attack somone's credibility, especially when it concerns development of another homebrew game. If I'm wrong about Arqueiro, then I will be more than happy to apologize to him, and the entire DC Emulation scene. But from what I've seen, and what I've studied of videogame development, I think this is a hoax.
-
Ian Micheal
- Soul Sold for DCEmu
- Posts: 4865
- Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:56 pm
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
I doubt it' a hoax prolly overly optimistic. He is using SDL so a simple myst style engine is rather easy i have one i can use if i wanted. I doubt any of the screens move it would be like a chose your own adventure type thing of which i have a few to finsh when i get around to it.
Im pretty good at photo shop now but i could not do grafix like that Game i was doing halls pass horror camp type thing grafix were taking up more time then the coding.
Im pretty good at photo shop now but i could not do grafix like that Game i was doing halls pass horror camp type thing grafix were taking up more time then the coding.
Dreamcast forever!!!
BlackAura, both you and Ian have inadvertantly assisted in my argument.
Ian is saying that he could that he could create a game using a "simple" myst-style engine. But he also mentioned that he wouldn't be able to create images like the one posted by Arqueiro. Yes any of the major modeling programs out there (3D Studio, Lightwave, etc.) could be used to create and render a scene like that. But are you saying that YOU, as a programmer BlackAura, have the talent and time to not only create an adventure style game engine that uses static pre-rendered screens, but ALSO make commercial-qualitiy backdrops for it too?
If this was a team effort, where you had guys working on different components of the game, I'd find this much more believable, and would be genuinely excited about another upcoming homebrew game. But this is one guy (AFAIK), who is responsible for all the story development, engine, interface, graphics and sound. AND its an Adventure/RPG game on top of it all? That's just too complex a project for one person. This is Dreamcast programming we're talking about here. Not the Atari 2600.
Ian is saying that he could that he could create a game using a "simple" myst-style engine. But he also mentioned that he wouldn't be able to create images like the one posted by Arqueiro. Yes any of the major modeling programs out there (3D Studio, Lightwave, etc.) could be used to create and render a scene like that. But are you saying that YOU, as a programmer BlackAura, have the talent and time to not only create an adventure style game engine that uses static pre-rendered screens, but ALSO make commercial-qualitiy backdrops for it too?
If this was a team effort, where you had guys working on different components of the game, I'd find this much more believable, and would be genuinely excited about another upcoming homebrew game. But this is one guy (AFAIK), who is responsible for all the story development, engine, interface, graphics and sound. AND its an Adventure/RPG game on top of it all? That's just too complex a project for one person. This is Dreamcast programming we're talking about here. Not the Atari 2600.
-
BlackAura
- DC Developer
- Posts: 9951
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2001 9:02 am
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 1 time
Well, check Arqueiro's post history. You'll notice he's asked for some help with some stuff in the Programming Forums. Mostly SDL-based 2D graphics and sound/music stuff. He's had some problems which are very Dreamcast specific.
Realistically, you don't need much more than the ability to draw graphics on the screen, and store some data about each scene in memory to code an adventure game. If you're artistically talented, but still learning to do games programming, it should be well within your reach.
The good thing about these kind of programs is that you can think your way through it fairly logically, and get a working result. The first program I remember writing was a text-based adventure game using AmigaBASIC. It was essentially a choose-your-own-adventure thing, consisting entirely of PRINT statements, the odd INPUT statement, a load of IFs and a load of GOTOs. Fairly primitive, but not bad considering my age and the fact I'd never done anything like that before. Cursed line numbers...
The simplest way of doing it is the 1980's BASIC style, maybe a little more sophisticated because we have a better programming language available.
You store an array containing information on each room. That'd include the background to use, maybe any sound effects to use, which rooms are linked to the current room, and that's about it. I did something similar to that as my first Java program, which took me around half an hour. No big deal, really.
Next, you need some way of showing the stuff on the screen. SDL would be ideal. You just load the image for the current room, and draw it on the screen.
Next, navigation. Add some controller input, which is fairly simple to do. When the player wants to go in a direction, check if there's a room in that direction, and go to it.
Next, items. Create another array containing every item in the world. For each item, you store it's name, graphic, where it should be drawn on-screen, what room it's currently in, and whether you have it or not. Add item drawing code to the drawing part, and add item pickup code to the control part.
Next, an inventory. You just go through all the items and, if you have the item, draw a little icon for it. Simple inventory management usually consists of being able to examine or use an object. Examining an object prints a description from the item's data. The simplest way to implement item usage is to just do something like:
Obviously, you can do much more complex things than that. You get the idea thiugh -you can gradually build the game up, adding more interactions. It'd be quite tricky in places, but it's not beyond anyone who knows a little C. It's nothing that a sufficiently determined first year IT student shouldn't be able to do.
The other thing you should consider - much of a game's impact comes from the graphics and the presentation, especially slower games such as this. You don't really need a lot of programming expertise to write a program to drive a graphics adventure, but you do need graphics expertise to create decent graphics for it. You can get away with code that isn't particularly efficient or well designed, because it's only there to glue the graphics, sound, music and story together. Since the code's not visible, it makes to difference at all to the player, as long as the game works well, and plays well.
However, art done by programmers stands out like a sore thumb. It's immediately noticable, and reagrdless of how well the thing's programmed, it makes the game look shabby. However, it's usually functional to some degree, and can work if the game's mostly driven by the code. Most early arcade games are like this.
Realistically, you don't need much more than the ability to draw graphics on the screen, and store some data about each scene in memory to code an adventure game. If you're artistically talented, but still learning to do games programming, it should be well within your reach.
The good thing about these kind of programs is that you can think your way through it fairly logically, and get a working result. The first program I remember writing was a text-based adventure game using AmigaBASIC. It was essentially a choose-your-own-adventure thing, consisting entirely of PRINT statements, the odd INPUT statement, a load of IFs and a load of GOTOs. Fairly primitive, but not bad considering my age and the fact I'd never done anything like that before. Cursed line numbers...
The simplest way of doing it is the 1980's BASIC style, maybe a little more sophisticated because we have a better programming language available.
You store an array containing information on each room. That'd include the background to use, maybe any sound effects to use, which rooms are linked to the current room, and that's about it. I did something similar to that as my first Java program, which took me around half an hour. No big deal, really.
Next, you need some way of showing the stuff on the screen. SDL would be ideal. You just load the image for the current room, and draw it on the screen.
Next, navigation. Add some controller input, which is fairly simple to do. When the player wants to go in a direction, check if there's a room in that direction, and go to it.
Next, items. Create another array containing every item in the world. For each item, you store it's name, graphic, where it should be drawn on-screen, what room it's currently in, and whether you have it or not. Add item drawing code to the drawing part, and add item pickup code to the control part.
Next, an inventory. You just go through all the items and, if you have the item, draw a little icon for it. Simple inventory management usually consists of being able to examine or use an object. Examining an object prints a description from the item's data. The simplest way to implement item usage is to just do something like:
Code: Select all
if(item == gun)
{
if(room == place_where_guy_is)
{
shoot_the_guy();
make_bang_noise();
guy_drops_dead();
}
else
{
print_message("Shoot what?");
}
}The other thing you should consider - much of a game's impact comes from the graphics and the presentation, especially slower games such as this. You don't really need a lot of programming expertise to write a program to drive a graphics adventure, but you do need graphics expertise to create decent graphics for it. You can get away with code that isn't particularly efficient or well designed, because it's only there to glue the graphics, sound, music and story together. Since the code's not visible, it makes to difference at all to the player, as long as the game works well, and plays well.
However, art done by programmers stands out like a sore thumb. It's immediately noticable, and reagrdless of how well the thing's programmed, it makes the game look shabby. However, it's usually functional to some degree, and can work if the game's mostly driven by the code. Most early arcade games are like this.
First of, I appreciate your faith in Arqueiro, BlackAura. It really shows your character, and is yet another reason why I enjoy the Dreamcast scene.
Secondly, it seems like you (or Ian) need to sit down with an aspiring graphic artist, and make an adventure game. There hasn't been one done yet on the Dreamcast, besides the emulated ones in SCUMM. Id be all for it, and would love to compose music for it.
But staying on topic...
I mean, c'mon. Can you list off any fan made games on the Computer, either PC or Mac (or even the Amiga) that comes close to looking like that first pic? I've seen games like the remake of Kings Quest, interpretations of Tetris, and total conversions of the various quake and unreal engines that really look and play excellently. But EVERY ONE of those were games were projects that consisted of multiple people (yes, even the tetris games). This is not the era of the Commodore 64 or Apple ][e, where the games can be almost as sophisticated as a commercial game, because of the ingenuity of the programmer, and the limitations of the hardware.
But you know what? I'm hoping that I'm wrong. I'm hoping that Arqueiro really is a "wunderkind" who can honestly deliver another excellent homebrew game. As I stated in my first post on this thread, I don't like putting other folks' work on trial. And because of that, I'll back off, and watch this project silently.
Secondly, it seems like you (or Ian) need to sit down with an aspiring graphic artist, and make an adventure game. There hasn't been one done yet on the Dreamcast, besides the emulated ones in SCUMM. Id be all for it, and would love to compose music for it.
But staying on topic...
THIS is what I will keep coming back to, and is the main reason why I have doubts about the authenticity of this project. If Arqueiro said that he was making the graphics, while someone else is coding, I would be less skeptical. If he said that HE was coding, and was using graphics from other people because he's not the best of artists, I again, would be less skeptical. But to be the lone man who again, has the forsight to be able to plan out a story, the logic to write the game code (as far as he says he has), and the artistic talent to make graphics like the 2 pictures that were posted, is just too much of a stretch.BlackAura wrote: However, art done by programmers stands out like a sore thumb. It's immediately noticable, and reagrdless of how well the thing's programmed, it makes the game look shabby. However, it's usually functional to some degree, and can work if the game's mostly driven by the code. Most early arcade games are like this.
I mean, c'mon. Can you list off any fan made games on the Computer, either PC or Mac (or even the Amiga) that comes close to looking like that first pic? I've seen games like the remake of Kings Quest, interpretations of Tetris, and total conversions of the various quake and unreal engines that really look and play excellently. But EVERY ONE of those were games were projects that consisted of multiple people (yes, even the tetris games). This is not the era of the Commodore 64 or Apple ][e, where the games can be almost as sophisticated as a commercial game, because of the ingenuity of the programmer, and the limitations of the hardware.
But you know what? I'm hoping that I'm wrong. I'm hoping that Arqueiro really is a "wunderkind" who can honestly deliver another excellent homebrew game. As I stated in my first post on this thread, I don't like putting other folks' work on trial. And because of that, I'll back off, and watch this project silently.
its not easy to believe in this game, when you look at other homebrew games.. but i still hope this isnt a hoax...
and for the gameplay..
will it be like resident evil just without the guns and zombies and more myst style things? or will there be a few enemies?
will you release the source or parts of it?
thanks for your work!
and for the gameplay..
will it be like resident evil just without the guns and zombies and more myst style things? or will there be a few enemies?
will you release the source or parts of it?
thanks for your work!
-
WaCk0
- DC Respected Artist
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:35 pm
- Location: Brasil
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
- Contact:
Well, I'm developing a homebrew game, for PC. I'm responsible the gfx/3D models/textures/effects/audio/concepts... and a friend makes all the programming part. I think homebrew can have a good quality, also to make money and start to grow up. But takes too much time to do it, since the team is small, we're 2, working on it for 4 years.Sonic-NKT wrote:its not easy to believe in this game, when you look at other homebrew games..
-
aisupikku
- Mental DCEmu
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:41 am
- Location: Minneapolis MN
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
Indeed; That was quite refreshing, especially after some of the posts that I've read recently. Cheers, BlackAura!Mr. Jones wrote:First of, I appreciate your faith in Arqueiro, BlackAura. It really shows your character, and is yet another reason why I enjoy the Dreamcast scene.
That sounds fantastic to me as well, but... I've actually been thinking about the process of producing such games recently; and, to me, the "enthralling story" aspect is what makes such a game project suddenly become a fairly formidable undertaking.Mr. Jones wrote:Secondly, it seems like you (or Ian) need to sit down with an aspiring graphic artist, and make an adventure game. There hasn't been one done yet on the Dreamcast, besides the emulated ones in SCUMM. Id be all for it, and would love to compose music for it.
If you swap "lone" with "Renaissance," the above quote would sound a lot like emotive praise!Mr. Jones wrote:... to be the lone man who again, has the forsight to be able to plan out a story, the logic to write the game code (as far as he says he has), and the artistic talent to make graphics like the 2 pictures that were posted ...
Of course, with enough time and dreams, anything is possible. I believe that he could do it! Surely most everyone has several areas of personal interest, which are sometimes related and sometimes not. Raw HTML writers often have a slight amount of image editing capability, and usually vice versa. Persons that architect buildings might also like to play the trombone, and aspiring artists might also write poems or short stories in the meantime. Also, I must say that I have no experience in 3D graphics editing, but I would imagine that with the appropriate knowledge, one could simply set their PC up in a mechanic's garage and recreate the scene digitally in order to come up with something similar to the images in in this thread... 'Art imitates life,' isn't that right?
Times are changing... Tools are available these days that make short work of projects that were only dreamed about by all but the highest-staffed biggest-budged production houses of yesteryear. CG graphics in and of themselves used to be the neatest thing ever, but now, they're everywhere! PCs have opened up a newfound realm of possibility for the artist inside of individuals, which is shown to be ever-present by the amount of Web sites showcasing the fantastic pieces of 'amateurs.' 3D Studio Max, Cubase, and other such applications have provided the renewable canvas for whatever anyone wants to do with them. All that it would require for graphics of this game's caliber to show up in a fan made game is, of course; someone possibly already into this sort of graphics production, paired up with an interest in programming and game development. Considering the fact that there are millions of people around here, and that these are only a few interests, it had to happen sometime, right?Mr. Jones wrote:I mean, c'mon. Can you list off any fan made games on the Computer, either PC or Mac (or even the Amiga) that comes close to looking like that first pic?
My intention with this post is not to shoot down any of your arguments; In fact, I feel that they are all valid and well-justified. The above are simply a few of my thoughts on this matter, along with about 2500 unnecessary characters.
Here, BaldMonk -- I was leaked this pre-production graphic from someone under NDA:
Code: Select all
o
?|\
/\
(I know; not funny... )
« ˆˆ -ˆ-ˆ ˆ » [ Let's help! Trizeal DC ]
-
Ian Micheal
- Soul Sold for DCEmu
- Posts: 4865
- Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:56 pm
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
You know I think 2499 unnecessary characters if you count the smilys.
If your using SDL to free and flip sufaces then this game will not happen at all. You will run out of memory as it chokes on a memory leak. Dreammidi dies after 20 times freeing and creating a suface it's random so he may-get away with it but i doubt it. So like i said i tryed to do a game like he is well before but it crashes. Blue crab had to convert his rpg engine to kos due to the memory leak problem and crashes , i try to stay away from the "dc SDL port" as well it's just not the best or like pc SDL in a lot of ways it's great but he is using SDL for it and i doubt it would turn out well with these problems.
And Making grafix for the game before there is a WIP demo 3d engine is a bit insane as you go alone you will have to change them all any way. I dont think i like to make a set of grafix then code a game to match them pretty much happens the other way around.
I think it's optimistic and good luck but i dont think the SDL dc port would handle it to well.
If your using SDL to free and flip sufaces then this game will not happen at all. You will run out of memory as it chokes on a memory leak. Dreammidi dies after 20 times freeing and creating a suface it's random so he may-get away with it but i doubt it. So like i said i tryed to do a game like he is well before but it crashes. Blue crab had to convert his rpg engine to kos due to the memory leak problem and crashes , i try to stay away from the "dc SDL port" as well it's just not the best or like pc SDL in a lot of ways it's great but he is using SDL for it and i doubt it would turn out well with these problems.
And Making grafix for the game before there is a WIP demo 3d engine is a bit insane as you go alone you will have to change them all any way. I dont think i like to make a set of grafix then code a game to match them pretty much happens the other way around.
I think it's optimistic and good luck but i dont think the SDL dc port would handle it to well.
Dreamcast forever!!!
-
poots
- Insane DCEmu
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:16 am
- Location: England
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
if its a hoax, what a shame. BUT if its real i'll fall in love with the scene all over again.
...If you are offended...
Then you dont know me.
__[Peace] = [Poots!]__
visit http://www.retrodesign.co.uk to help out
Then you dont know me.
__[Peace] = [Poots!]__
visit http://www.retrodesign.co.uk to help out
-
Unph@zed
- Insane DCEmu
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:55 am
- Has thanked: 0
- Been thanked: 0
- Contact:
ok, I just now read all this, and as soon as I saw the guy in the trench, I KNEW that that was a POSER 3d Graphic. That's the P3 Male model, with a simple trench over it. Now, Poser is great for artists making simple 2d images, but for games? Nah, no way. And the Poser model was extremely simple compared to that background... and I would think that the model would have been tweaked like that background was too... so I'm thinking hoax...
wanna see how I know that was the P3 Model, check out this, it's a Quake-based comic strip I made using Poser/Bryce 3d, along with some old Quake models (just the armor, ranger and shotgun)... anyhow, compare my model (as much as one might try, the P3 male is just hard to alter... the female is much more versatile) w/ the one you saw at the beginning...
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/picass ... uaker.html
wanna see how I know that was the P3 Model, check out this, it's a Quake-based comic strip I made using Poser/Bryce 3d, along with some old Quake models (just the armor, ranger and shotgun)... anyhow, compare my model (as much as one might try, the P3 male is just hard to alter... the female is much more versatile) w/ the one you saw at the beginning...
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/picass ... uaker.html