How much are you purchasing from the Virtual Console?

Wagh · Post by **Wagh** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:47 am

Seems odd that Nintendo themselves wouldn't already have a decent emulator for their consoles.

Lartrak · Post by **Lartrak** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:27 pm

Nick wrote:I bought Super Bomberman '93 when I had my Wii. It sucked balls.

Shame they released DKC after I sold my Wii. I would've bought that for sure. That game was the shit. First video game I ever bought for a home console. Memories.

Do you like the other Bomberman titles? If so, what's the big difference.

And Bomberman '93 is 5 player on the Wii, with any combination of Wiimotes and Cube pads. It's the only VC game I've been contemplating DLing.

Seems odd that Nintendo themselves wouldn't already have a decent emulator for their consoles.

They do, considering Animal Crossing had Punch-Out! perfectly emulated, which is one of the more difficult to emulate NES titles.

pavelbure · Post by **pavelbure** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:06 pm

well mario kart 64 is coming out in jan.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/752/752415p1.html

well, in japan at least.

Wagh · Post by **Wagh** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:49 pm

pavelbure wrote:well mario kart 64 is coming out in jan.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/752/752415p1.html

well, in japan at least.

The japanese got a lot of really cool titles at launch and we got...

Number Six · Post by **Number Six** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:45 pm

Let's say it's got built in emulation, for argument's sake. Why is it then that LoZ is not a 128KB ROM, but rather a 2.7MB file?

To answer the original question, I've got LoZ and Toejam & Earl. I'm going to get Castlevania 4 next.

Cyphix · Post by **Cyphix** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:06 am

I'm a VC Freak.

Pinball
Mario Bros.
Sim City
Mario 64
Donkey Kong
F-Zero
Street Fighter 2
Super Mario Bros
Legend of Zelda
Sonic
Donkey Kong Jr.

MulletMan13 · Post by **MulletMan13** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:10 am

I have Bomberman, TJ&E and SM64.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:17 am

Lartrak wrote:
Nick wrote:I bought Super Bomberman '93 when I had my Wii. It sucked balls.

Shame they released DKC after I sold my Wii. I would've bought that for sure. That game was the shit. First video game I ever bought for a home console. Memories.
Do you like the other Bomberman titles? If so, what's the big difference.

And Bomberman '93 is 5 player on the Wii, with any combination of Wiimotes and Cube pads. It's the only VC game I've been contemplating DLing.

I do enjoy other Bomberman games. I didn't really like the levels, the game's pace seemed to be off, and, overall, it just wasn't very fun. Both me and my friend agreed that the game straight up sucked.

SinisterTengu · Post by **SinisterTengu** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:56 am

I have yet to buy anything, but I will buy Gunstar Heroes as soon as I stop being lazy. I'm disappointed with the selection, and disappointed that Nintendo isn't really adding anything to these games. A year ago I would have been fine with it, but in the past year, Microsoft has been bringing plenty classics to Xbox Live WITH added networked multiplayer, often for better prices. For instance SmashTV (a classic we at DCEmulation I'm sure all love, right MrSiggler

) is 400 points ($5) with networked multiplayer! Others include Contra, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, Street Fighter II (which they kinda screwed up, but still), Frogger, among many others. I'd love to rebuy Mario Kart 64 with networked multiplayer, but there's no way I'm gonna buy it if its the same as my N64 version. Originally I thought I might buy these because they'll be output in hi-res to my large TV, but then I found out that Wii was not going to be HD and therefore these games will still look just as smudgy as the old systems do..ugh, the Wii frustrates me.

And BlackAura, you really think these big companies would just throw away code to old games? Somehow I doubt that, possibly for NES era, but not likely for SNES and I'd say there is no way they were throwing away N64 code. Why throw away code when sequels are always a possibility? Remember, there were quite a few SNES ports for GBA and Mario 64 is on DS. And if you think about it, although these games might have a fair bit of code I seriously doubt it compares at all to the amount of code that goes into current titles. I'd imagine a small group of a few programmers could manage to port an old title fairly quickly if they had access to old code and resources.

And this is all forgetting that the least they could do is continue to simply emulate, but add network play the way ZSNES and Snes9x have. Though not the most efficient way, it works fine with broadband. They could even have leaderboards the way Xbox Live does simply by reading top scores from sram saves. I just think Nintendo is taking the quickest route to make a buck and I don't plan on buying very many VC games unless they add netplay in the future. So far this wifi built into my wii isn't a way for me to enjoy gaming with friends, but a way for Nintendo to sell me (old) stuff.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:34 am

And BlackAura, you really think these big companies would just throw away code to old games?

Do you know how difficult it is to retain files for 20-something years? No matter what media you may have put it on, there's something like a 90% probability that it wouldn't work, even if you could find some hardware that was actually able to read it, and some software that could make sense of it.

I can pretty much guarantee that Nintendo don't actually have source code or data for the majority of their NES and SNES games. Even if they did, what good is it going to do them? Unless they wanted to modify it and re-release it on a NES, the code is of no use to them - it's 6502 (or 65c816) assembly language, likely written in some assembler that probably only works on hardware that's long since stopped working, and which directly mucks around with NES (or SNES) hardware.

The result is that it's completely impossible to port a NES or SNES game to a newer system. It has to be a complete re-write, and considering that modern system don't work like a NES or a SNES, that also means that you have to fundamentally change the way most of the game works.

The cost of doing this could easily approach the cost of making the game in the first place. You get to re-use the art assets, but that's about all. It is simply not worth the effort, when nobody would pay close to the original retail price for these games.

N64 games were written in C, using a fairly high-level library system, so it's actually possible to port N64 games to other platforms.

And if you think about it, although these games might have a fair bit of code I seriously doubt it compares at all to the amount of code that goes into current titles.

If you're writing a game in the first place, it doesn't really matter how (or what) you do with it. Whatever you end up with is the final game.

If you're remaking a game, it has to behave the same as the original. The whole game will be full of all kinds of implicit assumptions about how other parts of the game work, and if you don't get them right the game won't play as the original did.

Simple example - Lemmings. If you try to re-make Lemmings using the original data, you need an extremely detailed understanding of the game. If you don't get it exact, down to the individual pixel level, some levels will be impossible to finish.

And this is all forgetting that the least they could do is continue to simply emulate, but add network play the way ZSNES and Snes9x have.

No, they can't. Multiplayer mode in emulators is far to complicated, unreliable, and all-around buggy to ever be workable on a games console, where people are expecting things to just work.

SinisterTengu · Post by **SinisterTengu** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:20 pm

Media can easily last 20 years if stored properly. I know I have floppies that are over 10 years old that still have their data, and I'm in no way careful with those. It would be silly to think that my games from back then can still hold their saves, but Nintendo loses all their code. And no, its not written in C, but it does give them all the values and the algorithms they used for calculating things in the game to work off of. And for multiplayer, the only reason they are difficult with PCs is because you have to know eachother's IP address and both have the exact same rom. Every VC game is the same, and your friend list takes care of not knowing IP addresses. If amateurs can pull it off decently on my Xbox 1 emulators, I'd hope Nintendo would have the skills to at least match it.

Psst...there's been like 40 Lemmings games over close to 20 consoles, so thats a bad example. Some were different versions, but many were direct ports.

Juan · Post by **Juan** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:47 pm

I don't think that the reasons for the lack extra features are technical; it just seems like the typical Nintendo attitude of making the bare minimum to profit even more.

Post by **melancholy** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:42 pm

Quick question for anyone. I've never really been a fan of Castlevania, but I noticed the SNES version on VC and I cannot help but to be intrigued. Is it worth buying, considering I've never played a Castlevania game before (other than the first one when I was like 7)?

SinisterTengu · Post by **SinisterTengu** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:46 pm

Thats what I was getting at Juan

. And melancholy, that Castlevania is decent, but not as good as the playstation and gba ones.

Post by **melancholy** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Okay, I've seen a whole lot of you say that Donkey Kong Country is on the VC, but I'm currently on my Wii and it's nowhere to be found. When you guys say DKC, are you talking about a different game or something?

curt_grymala · Post by **curt_grymala** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:47 pm

melancholy wrote:Okay, I've seen a whole lot of you say that Donkey Kong Country is on the VC, but I'm currently on my Wii and it's nowhere to be found. When you guys say DKC, are you talking about a different game or something?

I was wondering the same thing. So far, I think stagg is the only one who's actually said it's been released in the US. I checked my Wii yesterday and didn't see DKC at all.

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:49 am

I read that it was coming for you guys on the VC but wasn't released. I wonder why AU got it before the US. I love being able to play DKC again

Dunno if you can change the button layout but it's horrible at the moment.

Orange_Ribbon · Post by **Orange_Ribbon** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:37 am

Pinball, Bonk, Bomberman 93, Zelda, Sonic, Mario 64, plus a couple more. I have an addiction.

pavelbure · Post by **pavelbure** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:36 pm

melancholy wrote:Quick question for anyone. I've never really been a fan of Castlevania, but I noticed the SNES version on VC and I cannot help but to be intrigued. Is it worth buying, considering I've never played a Castlevania game before (other than the first one when I was like 7)?

it is definitely worth buying. it tempts me every time i go on my wii. i still havent bought it yet though. if i remember correctly, it is a remake of castlevania 1.

BUY IT !!!!!!!

Orange_Ribbon · Post by **Orange_Ribbon** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:03 pm

melancholy wrote:Okay, I've seen a whole lot of you say that Donkey Kong Country is on the VC, but I'm currently on my Wii and it's nowhere to be found. When you guys say DKC, are you talking about a different game or something?

As far as american castlevanias go it is the best you are going to get that is in the classic formula at least until 3 comes out on VC.

Now if Castlevania ROB gets a proper port with only english subtitles. I would dance the robot for like 10 hours straight.