Why does Akira Toriyama keep getting work?

ASCIIN · Post by **ASCIIN** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:06 pm

For someone with no skill, people sure love to imatate his style a lot...

Lartrak · Post by **Lartrak** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:03 pm

ASCIIN wrote:For someone with no skill, people sure love to imatate his style a lot...

Do you have a point? There is very little connection between skill and whether people imitate you or not.

ASCIIN · Post by **ASCIIN** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:42 am

Lartrak wrote:
ASCIIN wrote:For someone with no skill, people sure love to imatate his style a lot...
Do you have a point? There is very little connection between skill and whether people imitate you or not.

as they say imatation is the best flatery......

but unless you can do better you shouldnt critisize

Post by **Specially Cork** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:17 am

ASCIIN wrote:and I personally would like to see you do better

Ive never understood why people say this. Are you not allowed to have an opinion on anything unless you can do better yourself?

not just souLLy now · Post by **not just souLLy now** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:24 am

BoneyCork wrote:
ASCIIN wrote:and I personally would like to see you do better
Ive never understood why people say this. Are you not allowed to have an opinion on anything unless you can do better yourself?

i personally would like to see you have a better opinion

Lartrak · Post by **Lartrak** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:35 pm

BoneyCork wrote:
ASCIIN wrote:and I personally would like to see you do better
Ive never understood why people say this. Are you not allowed to have an opinion on anything unless you can do better yourself?

They put out their point A (can you do better?), then conclude based on this point B (you probably can't, therefore you can't have an opinion), but there is no line connecting them. It's anti-logic.

Post by **melancholy** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:52 pm

I will say one thing, so take it or leave it. Look at every single cel-shaded game out there. Sure, they have a comic look to them, but not a single one of them look like they were hand drawn. They still look like 3D renders. Now look at Dragon Quest VIII. It has the backing of one of the most famous anime artists of our time. A man that has years of experience under him. And because of this, Dragon Quest VIII characters, no matter what angle you view them, look hand drawn. I could take any screenshot, edit out the background, and you would be hard pressed to decern it from a 2D sprite or even an actual drawing. Now, obviously Toriyama did not actually make the 3D models, but you can bet he was there helping to perfect them. No other game I have ever seen can compare to the sheer detail of DQ8, and if it wasn't for Toriyama's backing, I would bet that the game would have never reached that level of design.

Lartrak · Post by **Lartrak** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:22 pm

melancholy wrote:I will say one thing, so take it or leave it. Look at every single cel-shaded game out there. Sure, they have a comic look to them, but not a single one of them look like they were hand drawn. They still look like 3D renders. Now look at Dragon Quest VIII. It has the backing of one of the most famous anime artists of our time. A man that has years of experience under him. And because of this, Dragon Quest VIII characters, no matter what angle you view them, look hand drawn. I could take any screenshot, edit out the background, and you would be hard pressed to decern it from a 2D sprite or even an actual drawing. Now, obviously Toriyama did not actually make the 3D models, but you can bet he was there helping to perfect them. No other game I have ever seen can compare to the sheer detail of DQ8, and if it wasn't for Toriyama's backing, I would bet that the game would have never reached that level of design.

It is well-done cel shading, I won't deny that.

I can always immediately tell that it is cel shaded 3D graphics though. It's easy for me. I also don't think DQ8 is really much better than other excellent examples of the technique, like the Naruto Gekito Taisen series. Cel shading is not even close to the point of really looking 2D.

Screenshots from the first of the four, which has the worst cel-shading of the bunch (three is the best, I would say). edit to change.. Actually, from what I've seen, Naruto is better character wise, but of course, DQ8 has a larger emphasis on the size of the world and larger amounts of characters on screen.

I suppose it is worth mentioning I haven't played DQ8 (I dislike the series), just seen screenshots and videos of it playing. I HAVE played Naruto Gekito Taisen 3 and 4, and was impressed with its cel shading. The closest I have seen a game get to the look of the anime it is based on, without question.

toastman · Post by **toastman** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:06 pm

Viewtiful Joe looks just as "hand-drawn" as DQ8 (characters, not backgrounds). My opinion only though, so.

That and a lot of that look in DQ8 is due to fake-outs with textures. His face is a texture except for the mouth, and his shirt is a texture as well, so the laces are literally drawn on there.
Not saying anything against it technically speaking, as I believe faking out is just as good as the real thing. Like Suikoden, The characters are 1 polygon with one of four texture sets being swapped out depending on your angle. So you could have a good artistic depiction of your characters while still have them reacting well in 3D environments.

And as for the whole "if you can't do better, you can't critisize". Let's discuss what that means. It means that you cannot dislike any movie, book, drawing, or game. Because I'm pretty sure that your efforts would more likely than not be shit.
That, and I can recognize good art and what makes good art without having the ability to do it myself.

FETUS · Post by **FETUS** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:53 pm

How bout you worry about the storyline not how the characters look? Hell with that mentality actors should do only one role there whole life as to not get any confusion.

Dreamcast4life · Post by **Dreamcast4life** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:59 pm

I find akira Toriyama over rated too. Like dragon ball didn't get big here until the series died in japan (well here in indiana where I live) After DB saga everything else didn't seem to have the magic that paticular anime had. Chrono was a sweet character (boot leg goku)Now if akira toriyama would get off his behind and put some originality in his work,then he would indeed be a master piece aritst. I luv my Van goh ^_^

Post by **melancholy** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:06 pm

This whole arguement could be easily translated into music. You could go out and take every freakin' Staind or Three Doors Down song, rip out the lyrics, and put the music on top of each other and every song will sound practically the same. But somehow it continues to sell. The same with anime. Many artists could take the clothes off of the characters and place them side-by-side and you wouldn't be able to tell which character is which. But they continue to sell. Some artists become famous by unifying their talents into one style and ride the success of it. That's what Akira Toriyama does. Other artists switch up their styles and progressively redefine genres, or even make their own. If you are looking for a person like that, you need to look somewhere outside of anime (except for perhaps Shinichiro Wantanabe. That guy pushes boundaries)

Dreamcast4life · Post by **Dreamcast4life** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:07 pm

The last best anime I ever say was FY

ASCIIN · Post by **ASCIIN** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:52 am

a huge leap in originallity is asking for a lot seeing that most anime is very simplified.

Post by **Quzar** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:17 am

ASCIIN wrote:a huge leap in originallity is asking for a lot seeing that most anime is very simplified.

just like most television.