DC and Saturn

zero · Post by **zero** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:26 pm

I kinda already knew that, but my point was is that most of the time the bits do mean more then just the numbers, i mean really, when did you ever see a console that was in the 16 bit, 32 bit, 64 bit, 128 bit range look way more better then any other consoles in their range?.

Post by **Quzar** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:54 pm

That skirts away from the issue that the DC was inbetween the N64 and PS2 timewise, and yet was a much bigger improvement. Given the amount of time compared to the DC, it shouldnt matter if its 128 bits or 9 bits but it should look considerably better. If it aint broke, dont fix it. The PS2 was simply not 2 years worth or performance different than the DC.

Spector · Post by **Spector** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:59 pm

But the xbox isn't 128-bit - it's 32bit. The use of "bits" as a way of showing the potential power of a machine ended with the DC, which is 128-bit. After that, the term had no real meaning, as the Xbox being just 32-bits is clearly not inferior to the DC.

zero · Post by **zero** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:44 pm

the DC was inbetween the N64 and PS2 timewise

Yes cos the was a 2 or 3 year cap for the dc and N64, and a 1 year cap for ps2, true the ps2 should of been a more bigger jump, but it wasn't. now the xbox and gc imo is a right size jump for the time cap, with some games, and others not so big, and by that i mean, size of game worlds etc.
and the way you really should be looking at it is this.

Psx > ps2 a very big jump.
N64 > GC a very big jump.
Saturn > DC a very big jump.
Xbox.. well ms never had another console so.. yeah.

Anyway my point still stands, the has never, and most likely will never be a big jump in the same bit consoles, even if the bits don't mean nothing, it doesn't matter, thats just the way things are, plus you have to take cost of hardware into account, and you can see where the jumps come from, i mean really, what kind of jump where you expecting?, the same type of jump we will see from dc to xbox 2, ps3, gc2?, at the time that could never happen, with the prices of hardware etc, if any of them consoles would of been more powerfull back then, then you would be expecting to pay a lot more then you did.

MKE · Post by **MKE** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:46 pm

zero wrote: Psx > ps2 a very big jump.
N64 > GC a very big jump.
Saturn > DC a very big jump.
Xbox.. well ms never had another console so.. yeah.

that's why im hesitant on buying a new console... were so used to seeing a huge difference in detail from console to console (ex pong to atari 7800 to nes to snes to n64 to gc) that i cant see there being that much of a difference this time around....and watching some of the videos of games that are going to be released on x2 and stuff it doesnt really look all that much different than they do now. (but i also think that is not everybody owns an hdtv yet so they arent makeing all games hdtv compaitble and stuff)

even with audio, it went from just misc beeps to midi music to better midi music and misc sounds, to cd quality sound, now to dolby 5.1, 7.1, pro logic 2, that there isnt much new tech. to use to upgrade the consoles anymore like they have in the past.

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:29 pm

the '128' bit designation is just marketing, just like calling the tg-16 16 bit and neo geo 24 bit.

Totally agree in principle, but I'm pretty sure Emotion Engine actually does have 128-bit general-purpose registers.

Spector · Post by **Spector** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:00 am

[quote="MKE"]
that's why im hesitant on buying a new console... were so used to seeing a huge difference in detail from console to console (ex pong to atari 7800 to nes to snes to n64 to gc) that i cant see there being that much of a difference this time around....and watching some of the videos of games that are going to be released on x2 and stuff it doesnt really look all that much different than they do now. Even with audio, it went from just misc beeps to midi music to better midi music and misc sounds, to cd quality sound, now to dolby 5.1, 7.1, pro logic 2, that there isnt much new tech. to use to upgrade the consoles anymore like they have in the past.[/quote]

A good point. The "wow" factor in seeing a new machine with greatly enhanced visuals may well be about to go forever, and I think that will be the end for gaming as we know it. Sound can't make any huge jump, so it's only a matter of time before visuals go the same way, maybe the generation after next will be the last one that we will see any real difference from the previous generation of machines. At that point, what will games companies do to excite people?

cube_b3 · Post by **cube_b3** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:03 am

the term bits I think dealed in colors ...
so the dreamcast has more colors then xbox

and that's why all the colorful games come on game cube cauz it has more colors this theory could be wrong..

Post by **Quzar** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:27 am

BILAL_XIA wrote:the term bits I think dealed in colors ...
so the dreamcast has more colors then xbox

and that's why all the colorful games come on game cube cauz it has more colors this theory could be wrong..

thats what bits are supposed to refer to, but i know the dreamcast does not use 128 bit colors, because that would simply be insane.

zero · Post by **zero** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:40 am

well looking at the unreal engine 3.0 in action, i think the next gen of consoles will be making a pretty big jump, maybe not as big as say, psx to ps2, or saturn to dc etc, but a big one none the less.

cube_b3 · Post by **cube_b3** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:20 pm

the next gen consoles will probably be making an even bigger jump as they are not comming till 2009 or maybe later...

Zealous zerotype · Post by **Zealous zerotype** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:17 pm

These new consoles arent really nex gen in my opinon rather say starters or say enzymes in a way.To hold people over wanting more giving them ataste of what we could have.I mean yea I see vitural reality being the next big thing.That can be carried far though.Arcades will get it first.Then we will go back into this loop.Hey just think we get the honor of potentaly being in the first "loop" of games.I mean if vitural reality does come (or imersive 3-d) then arcades will get it first,people will want to play that and onyl can get it at arcades.Then sooner or later we will be liek "wow dude this is kinda...retro?"
Meh I hope so.Btw if it does I SAID IT FIRST!

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:30 pm

quzar wrote:
BILAL_XIA wrote:the term bits I think dealed in colors ...
so the dreamcast has more colors then xbox

and that's why all the colorful games come on game cube cauz it has more colors this theory could be wrong..
thats what bits are supposed to refer to, but i know the dreamcast does not use 128 bit colors, because that would simply be insane.

Both you are partially wrong. Yes, bits are used in the "##-bit color" nomenclature, but not only on it. Bits are used on everything in computers. About the "Dreamcast is a 128 bit console" and the "X-Box is a 32 bit console", the bits mentioned are the word size that the CPU works with, not the color depth. For example, it would be insane to say that the Neo-Geo is a 8-bit console just because its games uses 8-bit colors.

Post by **Quzar** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:03 am

Fragger wrote:
quzar wrote:
BILAL_XIA wrote:the term bits I think dealed in colors ...
so the dreamcast has more colors then xbox

and that's why all the colorful games come on game cube cauz it has more colors this theory could be wrong..
thats what bits are supposed to refer to, but i know the dreamcast does not use 128 bit colors, because that would simply be insane.
Both you are partially wrong. Yes, bits are used in the "##-bit color" nomenclature, but not only on it. Bits are used on everything in computers. About the "Dreamcast is a 128 bit console" and the "xbox is a 32 bit console", the bits mentioned are the word size that the CPU works with, not the color depth. For example, it would be insane to say that the Neo-Geo is a 8-bit console just because its games uses 8-bit colors.

i had said that in an earlier post and was restating that to billly, saying that in the case of the dreamcast it most certainly did not refer to color depth.

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:05 am

Fragger wrote:About the "Dreamcast is a 128 bit console" and the "xbox is a 32 bit console", the bits mentioned are the word size that the CPU works with, not the color depth.

For CPU's yes, but when applied to a console it gets more complicated. Both Dreamcast and Genesis use 32-bit CPU's (if you look at word size), while the former was marketed as 128-bit, and the latter as 16-bit. In the case of the Dreamcast it might refer to vector maths, in the case of the Genesis it might refer to the data bus... or maybe it's all just marketing.

aisupikku · Post by **aisupikku** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:13 am

I say, "marketing."

Things were simpler in the past, when the mainstream featured the "8-bit" NES and then the "16-bit" Genesis and Super Nintendo were released... I'm sure that it correlates to something (or at least, once, it did), but, I'd heard that the Nintendo Dolphin was "256-bit" before it was released. I understand that it would be interesting to understand the basis behind the designation, but, with so many mainstream consoles out (especially when introduced at staggered intervals), it will become only more and more irrelevant as to which "512-bit" system is better than the others, or, how cool the "1-kilobit" systems will be when they are released...

(Marketing departments will surely drop such designations when they start to sound too much like complete computer terminology... Except for Microsoft, perhaps. "Bring together all of the appliances in the house... ")