Dreamspec and DC_64 illegal why its ok to break the law!

[IMRtech]

It's not just sega or ms its a host of other people who yes still use parts of that kit . illegal is illegal you seem to think if no one cares then do it is that the state of todays young people . GREAT really it does not matter if any one cares or if you get sued or if sega says take it down its illegal thats the only thing that matters katana is not homebrew its cheating and WRONG. And goes right against the spirt of homebrew developement mp3's warez are also illegal. Just because a vast number of law breaker's do it does not make it right. Problem is just that how many warez site's still provide downloads and get away with it ISOZNEWS being one. And had the same POV & LOOK what happen in the end taken by the state department why risk that just to keep some illegal emulator's ????? strange. You should care its illegal not sega because every one does it. Does not make it right does it Lots of people use drug's does it make it OK or right lot of people get killed and murders get away with it does it make it right if we were to use your logic the world would turn to choas.

IT's illegal it does not matter if any one care's YOU should!
your logic forced me to reply on this matter just because no one cares does not mean you can break the law. If you think that to be the case then something is a miss in people of today. As illegal is wrong legal is right we dont do illegal things because there bad wrong cheat people out of there work Saying sega does not care the system is dead is eronious
you think abandonware is legal ??? most people get away with it the person within your self should be telling you this is wrong you should not be waiting for sega. To ask to remove it like they did with segagen .

katana is illegal it matters not if sega does not tell you to take it down its not in the spirt of homebrew legal development!


IMR

[Swiss_Cheeseman]

Ever tape recorded a TV show and watched it more than once?

You broke a copyright law that has a max 5 year jail term.

Theres things that are illegal that are only illegal because if it happens in extreme cases, the victim is protected. The law is just a guide, its up to you and your morals to choose what is right or wrong.

[Swiss_Cheeseman]

It's not just sega or ms its a host of other people who yes still use parts of that kit.

DCEmu doesnt supply any actual katana devkit files, only a bootdisk.

GREAT really it does not matter if any one cares or if you get sued or if sega says take it down its illegal thats the only thing that matters katana is not homebrew its cheating and WRONG.

The only reason they got the bootdisk iso (which I from what I can tell is pretty much the only katana based program on DCEmu) is for really old homebrew programs. The DC Devver community have phased out the bootdisk, but its still there for historical puposes, for homebrew games that were made before selfboot existed.

mp3's warez are also illegal.

What makes MP3s illegal? Its like saying a jpeg is illegal because it can contain child porn.

Just because a vast number of law breaker's do it does not make it right.

Warez is wrong, and as you can see, it is strongly discouraged on these forums, take SegaGen for example.

Problem is just that how many warez site's still provide downloads and get away with it ISOZNEWS being one.

ISONews never EVER had ANY warez downloads EVER. They only had information on warez releases in the form of TXT files. The reason why they got taken down is because the guy who owned it sold modchips. That is the ONLY REASON.

And had the same POV & LOOK what happen in the end taken by the state department why risk that just to keep some illegal emulator's ?????

Point me to an illegal emulator.

You should care its illegal not sega because every one does it. Does not make it right does it Lots of people use drug's does it make it OK or right lot of people get killed and murders get away with it does it make it right if we were to use your logic the world would turn to choas.

Ever heard of punctuation? Logic would dictate that due to the fact that sega have pretty much no problem with a single katana program being available on DCEmu, there would be no problem on having it on the site.

your logic forced me to reply on this matter just because no one cares does not mean you can break the law. If you think that to be the case then something is a miss in people of today.

How many times have you broken the law mate? Cos I can tell you that you wouldnt be able to count. The law is very broad and generalised.

As illegal is wrong legal is right we dont do illegal things because there bad wrong cheat people out of there work Saying sega does not care the system is dead is eronious

We dont to illegal things to cheap people out of their work, exactly. How is hosting a goddamn bootdisc cheating anyone out of their work?!

you think abandonware is legal ??? most people get away with it the person within your self should be telling you this is wrong you should not be waiting for sega. To ask to remove it like they did with segagen .

It isn't legal, but I have no problem morally most of the time. Take ---Link removed by Kron--- for example. They host plenty of abandonware, but anything that is still in distribution that take down and post a link to where you can buy it. Do publishers care? No. Some developers I have talked to dont have any problem with underdogs. It HAS been contacted by the IDSA, but they only wanted a select few games taken down. Man, I have even seen on the back of a game box at a store, a quote from a review at underdogs!

katana is illegal it matters not if sega does not tell you to take it down its not in the spirt of homebrew legal development!

It isnt in the spirit, we got free utilities to use now. But that wasnt the case a while back, so thats why the bootdisk is still there.

[IMRtech]

Dreamspec is illegal its made using katana its hosted by this site your own admin states its illegal! this has got nothing to do with the boot disk.





IMR

[Swiss_Cheeseman]

hmm, I was not aware of this. Checking out the dreamspec/C64 site I cant see any idication that it is.

Anyhow, 2 emulators arnt going to make much difference either. Instead of spamming this forum, how about you go to an actual warez site and start annoying them?

[Mask of Destiny]

It's not just sega or ms its a host of other people who yes still use parts of that kit . illegal is illegal you seem to think if no one cares then do it is that the state of todays young people . GREAT really it does not matter if any one cares or if you get sued or if sega says take it down its illegal thats the only thing that matters katana is not homebrew its cheating and WRONG. And goes right against the spirt of homebrew developement mp3's warez are also illegal. Just because a vast number of law breaker's do it does not make it right. Problem is just that how many warez site's still provide downloads and get away with it ISOZNEWS being one. And had the same POV & LOOK what happen in the end taken by the state department why risk that just to keep some illegal emulator's ????? strange. You should care its illegal not sega because every one does it. Does not make it right does it Lots of people use drug's does it make it OK or right lot of people get killed and murders get away with it does it make it right if we were to use your logic the world would turn to choas.

IT's illegal it does not matter if any one care's YOU should!
your logic forced me to reply on this matter just because no one cares does not mean you can break the law. If you think that to be the case then something is a miss in people of today. As illegal is wrong legal is right we dont do illegal things because there bad wrong cheat people out of there work Saying sega does not care the system is dead is eronious
you think abandonware is legal ??? most people get away with it the person within your self should be telling you this is wrong you should not be waiting for sega. To ask to remove it like they did with segagen .

katana is illegal it matters not if sega does not tell you to take it down its not in the spirt of homebrew legal development!


IMR

I was not trying to justify the distribution of these emus or the illegal use of the Katana or WinCE devkits. I was merely refuting your implied claim that this breech would be punnished, a claim that I find silly. Even if either of the companies involved cared, they would probably request it be taken down before they took legal action and as long as the owners of the site complied with the request. In such a case there would be no legal consequences.

Ever tape recorded a TV show and watched it more than once?
You broke a copyright law that has a max 5 year jail term.

The legality of tape recording a show for your own personal use has been upheld in court.

[Swiss_Cheeseman]

The legality of tape recording a show for your own personal use has been upheld in court.

Actually, VCRs were only made legal because they could be used for "time shifting". It is illegal to watch the program you recorded more than once.

[Mask of Destiny]

Time shifting was the main justification under fair-use for the legality of taping a copyrighted program, but there is nothing in the ruling that implies that watching the program multiple times would be infringement. Especially since one could tape a program for "time-shifting" purpose and then later decide that he wanted to watch it later. The subsequent viewings do not involve any copying beyond the original copy made for time-shifting purposes. Also couldn't the multiple viewings also be considered time shifting?

[Nyarlathotep]

in summary: reaper2k2 constantly ignores the GPL a legally binding agreement that is solely designed to make open source programmign better through peer review, and sends IMR to moan about a hex edit of it (which wouldn't be neccessary if the GPL was adhered to and source was released) and to call us hypocrites because we host programs that were made with Katana and WinCE devkits.

I take it you have proof that BigBoy and The Gypsy do not legitimately own WinCE devkits, as you'd look an ass if they do wouldn't you as there is significant proof that reaper2k2 has breached the GPL.

and I happen to know for sure that the Gypsy has a legitimate devkit, although I cant say *for sure* BigBoy does.

[toastman]

To toastman read what you admin's words they host illegal made katana warez then rethink you mind they dont follow any law what so ever. GPL VS ILLEGAL KATANA WAREZ ? i know which one is worst DO you.Plus the fact bero has done the same lost source code or not.

I can't control the actions of others. What the main site does and what the forums contain are two seperate entities at times it seems. I can beg and plead in the staff forum (which I may be doing, you honestly don't know) but in the end, I can't control anyone but myself.

Grow up toastman get over you jealousy and constant vendetta towards a great dc scene coder that a lot of people support and injoy his shown proving coding talent .I was under the impression you were hacking it to do other things ive talked to reaper and he says its ok on ahlpa software
TO black aura coding in Katana not geting permission and break copyright licences is a CRIME lets not back away from that really and any legal site should not host such made emulators and app's .
IMR

Jealous of reaper? No. Tired of his ego? Yes. Nice "port" of SubSilver to ezBoard by the way.
Technically, copyright falls under civil, not criminal, law, so it's not a crime. You can sue under a civil action, but unless a huge amount of monetary damage comes into play, you can't bring charges.
Also, brush up on your English, I see a bit of rere creeping up in your post there.

[SuperMegatron]

What does the flash linker have to do with using a sega dev kit IMRtech? basicly as I see it most freeware distributed on the dreamcast is illegal anyway that sega screen that pops up and says the following program is licensed and endoresed by sega kinda makes it that way. But having said that I believe its completely legal to make programs using the sega dev kit and distribute them the agreements software companies make with sega applies only to programs they sell. If capcom used the sega kat. dev kit to make street fighter 2 and then released street fighter 2 for free they would not be breaking the law if they made street fighter 2 and sold it for the dreamcast they would be breaking the law

[moora101]

aaahh.. i find this current argument so ironic...

Reaper.. you're getting your knickers in a twist over the katana developed DC 64 and Dreamspec.. and yet YOU'RE developing emulators for several arcade machines.. now what I would like to know, do YOU OWN every one of those machines?? Including the System 16 machines you recently had beta testing for? Because.. legally speaking you would have to own each of those machines, unless of course you are developing them WITHOUT the actual arcade roms. And the argument of this original post of hacking releases did you not hack the original MAMEd source code in order to develop the single arcade emu's?

Why are you bothered about the legality of other emu's? This really stinks of you trying to stop the development of DC 64 and Dreamspec (which were pretty close to being dead anyway), and with all this.. I can't see them being resurrected....

Sometimes this site annoys me with the Segagen is illegal (so don't speak about it) yet DC 64 is, but I wouldn't go as far as hounding other developers to remove their "warez" (as you like to call it). Personally speaking I think every emulator that has ever been developed for the DC should be up here (including SegaGen and Bleem beta) seeing as the Dreamcast is dead. However, that's my opinion... I'm not going to start screaming on this BB about why they aren't there....

Just let it lie.. so a couple of people have edited your emu's to make them work better (in their opinion). You should be flattered that there are people taking an interest in them. Instead you're just pissing off everyone with your behaviour and acting like a child in saying that you're going to stop devving the emu's. Maybe we should all just get along and get some really good arcade emu's going.. share the source and see what else come's out!!

Moora

[IMRtech]

Just forget it please OMG .





IMR

[Phantom]

Reaper has written permisson to do what he does he has permisson from a number of authors and emulator authors to do what he does Lupengo being one of them it is GPL code but he holds the right to release it Lgpl the author has written and allowed this among other's so thats the main point you are far off base and toastman is wrong about any GPL volations
as Reaper has permisson to do so and has released the source to many if not all software even some he does not have to release the source to .

The LGPL is used for libraries, not for stand-alone software. Besides, software released under the LGPL is also open source and you're not allowed to modify LGPL software without releasing the modified sourcecode.

[IMRtech]

Can i have the source code to the katana illegally made DC_64 then ? since it is so legal im sure reaper would finsh it and add sound . Developement is over bigboy who worked for DMA stoped and is finshed with the illegal scene is he not ..?????
And the comment a bit ago about tape recording tv show, well, i get 3 channels of nothing. Record? lol... funny.Phantom do you support illegally made emulators ??? was bring up gpl and lgpl some type of cover so you cant say what you want ???

Do you support emulators and apps made with non hombrew illegal dev kits thats what you should be asking your self not some open source soapie.!

The authors have given reaper the right. What ever it was under the authors all ways have the right to release it under what ever they want they give him the right to do what he wants with it . Email' ask the authors who link to reapers site .

CASE CLOSED its illegal dont bring up any other points there are not going to hide the fact its illegal "dreamspec "DC_64" .To wrongs dont make a right ether so what are you trying to say Phantom. About lgpl and gpl what about about bero do you talk about that Phantom go hound bero. Lost source mean's what that he cant release it thats what it means so go hound him then every one else. I will use the logic some people on this site have .

IT's NOT hurting any one who cares . If some one says take it down he will etc etc
if the author or the GPL board ask to take it down then he will it's not hurting any one is it . I think zac said that and a few other's same logic how do you like it.


I think if you want to Phantom if you think reaper has done wrong then inform the gpl board and be done with it and if some one asks him to take anything down he will.

IT's not hurting any one LMAO







IMR

[BlackAura]

TO black aura coding in Katana not geting permission and break copyright licences is a CRIME lets not back away from that really and any legal site should not host such made emulators and app's .

I agree, we shouldn't really host it here. But technically, violating the GPL falls under the same category. Distributing software in violation of the GPL means violating the licence between you and the original author, which is much the same as distributing Katana stuff. Either way, it's an abuse of someone else's property without their permission.

Saying it's illegal because most people use it for piracy would be like saying that CD burners or MP3 compression are illegal.

Good old DMCA.

They have lost nothing by this illegal use of the devkit.

Doesn't matter - it's the principle of the thing that matters. Essentially, distributing Katana/WinCE binaries without licence is akin to stealing, as is distributing GPLed stuff in violation of the licence. Not to mention that it disrespects the original authors of that code (yes, even Microsoft).

As for the code licensed from other companies in the devkit, I can't really comment since I don't know what's in there.

I'm not sure either, but there's stuff by NEC, Hitachi, and a load more in there.

Regardless, I fail to see how the legal status of these unrelated programs have anything to do with whether or not someone should be able to hex edit reaper's releases.

Um... Nothing? It seems pretty much irrelevant to me.

basicly as I see it most freeware distributed on the dreamcast is illegal anyway that sega screen that pops up and says the following program is licensed and endoresed by sega kinda makes it that way.

Actually, no. Ever heard of Accolade? They started making unlicenced games for the Sega MegaDrive. In later versions of the hardware, Sega added the "Produced or licenced by" screen, and make the console not boot any cartridge that didn't have some specific code in it. Accolade copied it, and Sega tried to sue them. They lost. The outcome is that we're allowed to use parts of copyrighted software if they are absolutely required to make interoperable software. In other words, since the code for that screen can not be bypassed in any way, we're allowed to use it. Of course, a lot of things do either add a disclaimer just after the Sega screen, or during the Sega screen.

Personally speaking I think every emulator that has ever been developed for the DC should be up here (including SegaGen and Bleem beta)

Umm... No, I don't think so. For one, Rand would not be happy if we hosted the Bleem beta here. Both of those truly are warez, since they're being distributed without permission from anyone who created it.

I take it you have proof that BigBoy and The Gypsy do not legitimately own WinCE devkits, as you'd look an ass if they do wouldn't you as there is significant proof that reaper2k2 has breached the GPL.

Doesn't matter - they're still not allowed to freeley distribute code built with them. Of course, maybe the licence agreement for the SDK allows you to distribute binaries. I know that the XDK licence does not, and that the WinCE licence does not, but I have no idea about the Katana licence. I assume not though.

Phantom do you support illegally made emulators ??? was bring up gpl and lgpl some type of cover so you cant say what you want ???

Do you find the GPL personally offensive or something? If you don't like it, don't use any software licenced under it. Simple as that. And how is bringing up a valid point about the LGPL (still requires source release) evidence of supporting illegal software?

The authors have given reaper the right.

And that is fine. Nobody is disputing that.

About lgpl and gpl what about about bero do you talk about that Phantom go hound bero. Lost source mean's what that he cant release it thats what it means so go hound him then every one else. I will use the logic some people on this site have .

He didn't want to release it, as far as I can recall.

[az_bont]

Can i have the source code to the katana illegally made DC_64 then ?

Firstly, as it wasn't released under the GPL, he doesn't have to release the source. Secondly, where is your proof that DC_64 was made with an illegal SDK?

[BlackAura]

Firstly, as it wasn't released under the GPL, he doesn't have to release the source. Secondly, where is your proof that DC_64 was made with an illegal SDK?

I can verify that, actually. Have a look at the BIN with a hex editor, and you'll see the copyright notices from a load of Sega libraries, and the "Lib Handle Start/End" bit at the top, just like XDP.

[ZacMc]

IT's NOT hurting any one who cares . If some one says take it down he will etc etc

Ummm, Phantom didn't say that reaper was hurting anyone or that reapers work should be taken down.. He just tried to explain t oyou the differance between gpl and lgpl

[ZacMc]

He didn't want to release it, as far as I can recall.

He lost the source as the release of his VCD player came years after he made it.