FRONTLINE:THE MENTALLY ILL & OUR PRISONS

[Pale Rider]

MENTAL ILLNESS IS BETTER TREATED IN PRISION THAN IN FREE SOCIETY.WHAT A SAD F*CKING STATEMENT FOR THE U.S. GOVT.

the united states and it's selfish and self-centered full of GREED mental health system is more apt to deny treatment to those who
desperately need it and allow them to fall into an abyss among the healthy in society,comit crimes and be put in PRISON rather than give them treatment.Leaving the desperately over burdened prison system to attempt to care for those who need to be in a hospital enviroment rather than JAIL....we have systematically CLOSED over 95% of our state mental hospitals leaving the burden on prisons who need to be dealing with criminals rather than patients...what a sad f*cking statement for the "leaders" of the free world...and we preach human rights to china and other countries..nothing but a two faced society.....you can see this in our jurist system as well...cases involving the mentally ill,are viewed as scams by those accused....pitiful when juries are to ignorant and uneducated to not trust atleast SOME of the mentally ill cases presented to the courts...


to read more

http://www.pbs.org/

click on the frontline link..the show may be fully viewable online as well.

[Pale Rider]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... c/map.html


check this map to see just how bad it is in your state...

9.2 percent of South Carolina's total prisoner population of 23,719 was diagnosed as mentally ill as of 2003, and 2.7 percent of the state's 2003 correctional budget was allocated to mental health. Corrections officials surveyed did not consider the 54 therapists on staff in 2004 to be an adequate number. No special training for managing mentally ill inmates is required for correctional officers and supervisors.

Contact information:
Director Jon Ozmint
South Carolina Department of Corrections
P. O. Box 21787
4444 Broad River Road
Columbia, SC 29210
Telephone: (803) 896-8500
E-mail: corrections.info@doc.state.sc.us
Web site: http://www.doc.sc.gov/

Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics and the "Inmate Mental Health Care" survey found in the September/October 2004 issue of the American Correctional Association's Corrections Compendium (pp 12 - 31).

my state..

[Ex-Cyber]

"Unfortunately, I do believe that some of the mental health treatment that we provide in prisons is better than what one might get in the community," says Dr. Reginald Wilkinson, the head of the Ohio prison system. "I've actually had a judge mention to me before that, 'We hate to do this, but we know the person will get treated if we send this person to prison.' When you know the courts are more apt to send a person to prison because they are going to get treated, there's something disconcerting about that."

[Pale Rider]

i know...hell even the judges are confounded by it...the government and american people have let the mentally ill down by killing off about all the mental hospital funding...what a joke,and we spend hard earned tax payer dough on golf courses for these MEATHEADS we send to congress and the senate..but cant take care of our own.shows how ignorant and self centered the american people are.

[mikozero]

sounds like some people just like keeping the undesirables off the streets....
man, some aspects of the US are just sooooooooo f*cked up,
makes me glad i (and the people i care about) don't live there.
it's not like everything here's all great or something either,
but at least mental health is seen as a health problem and is delt with by the NHS.

there is a phrase i have heard a lot in life that's most usually applied to 'suits' and Torys - "they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing" closing state funded mental hospitals, how much did that save ?, not a lot compared with some other goverment spending i'll bet, what can i say, i'm so glad i live in a country where the right to health is assumed as almost a human right, and the vast majority don't have that "why should i pay for someone elses health care ?" attitude. i guess the majority in the US must think its better and cooler to belong to a nation that's far better at killing an others people than it is at looking after it's own....

[Ex-Cyber]

closing state funded mental hospitals, how much did that save

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it decreased value and increased waste in the big picture, but since it's off the government budget it's assumed to be a victory.

the vast majority don't have that "why should i pay for someone elses health care ?" attitude.

It's funny, in this country you pretty much have to "pay for someone else's health care" (through insurance premiums) to get any level of decent care, but the idea of a single-payer system with lower prices and less red tape is considered to be absurd by a lot of people.

[Pale Rider]

we not only need a nation wide health care system for everyone,we need to re-open our mental hospitals and begin treating the illnesses of the mind no different than any other illness.


it will happen..even if it comes to the point where millions march on washington with weapons in hand ready to force the change.that is what is sorely missing in this country..the backbone we used to have as a people..we have become hollywoodized,superficial,and short attention spanned morons for the most part.

[FETUS]

First off shutup with the whole national health care BS we already have federal funded health care for those who cant afford it and those who can should put up for there own treatment.
Also if they're in jail they have done something ILLEGAL meaning they need to be punished and rehabilitated if mental health help happens to be a good part of that rehabilitation then good go for it.
Mental disease does not cause people to break the law, if it does then they should lock all of us crazies up.
Hospitals need money to operate and we can't pour money into empty hospitals. Either we force treatment on us or shut down the hospitals, because obviously people aren't too excited about offering themselves to the looney bin.
I like your idea of marching to washington with weapons in hand to force change for the good of our country and its people, but when it does happen it will be done by people like myself who are willing to fight for what we believe in not just whine about it.

[Ex-Cyber]

shutup with the whole national health care BS

No.

I'd respond to the rest of your post, but it seems to be a completely aimless rant with no real point.

[Pale Rider]

first off,the whole point behind the frontline program was to expose that there were seriously mentally ill people that HAD been placed in prison because there was no where else to send them.and that there were a number of them that had commited misdemeanor crimes mainly due to being paranoid and delusional and were not being released due to acting out(which people with serious mental disease do without proper medication and control.)while in prison and racking up even more time.


you cant excuse away the way our country treats the mentally ill with the "i aint payin for it" attitude...one can never say when or if they will ever be affected by a mental disease brought on by gentics or whatever..and they would hope treatment would be available to help them,of which there is none now.....unless you make hundreds of thousands of bucks with top notch medical insurance..cause you can damned well be sure..the greedy mental facilities we have now will drain your ass dry for the treatment they will give you.

[mikozero]

Mental disease does not cause people to break the law

how do you tell the difference between "right" and "wrong" when you don't even know what reality is ?

I like your idea of marching to washington with weapons in hand to force change for the good of our country and its people, but when it does happen it will be done by people like myself who are willing to fight for what we believe in not just whine about it.

you shouldn't need to, representaive democracy is supposed to mean that that the elected representatives represent your collective opinions (for a given constituency), but (imo) currently the representatives in the US only really represent the rich individuals and the corporations who give them money to fight their campaigns to stay elected.

in all the great marches on Washington that actually changed anything no one was armed,
but that was the past, you people have forgot where and what the real power is.

we had up to 2 million march on the streets of London against our involvment in the last Iraq war, it was organised in less than a week by via the net (a great tool for doing such things) not the greatest example i'll give you, because that self-opinionated a-hole TB still went ahead anyway, but you can be dam sure the rest of the politicians were sh*tting themselves (there are after all less than 35,000 uniformed police in London) you have many, many more people and could easily push home hard any concern you wished, but you won't, it shouldn't have to come down to force of arms, that's not democracy that's cival war...

[Tall Israeli]

Hey buddy, you want to be the one that pays for the drugs, facilities and employees for mentally ill? You talk about it like it's something that can be done with the flip of a switch. Trust me, if they increases to help fund care for the mentally ill, you'd probably be the first one to complain.

[Ex-Cyber]

how do you tell the difference between "right" and "wrong" when you don't even know what reality is ?

That really only covers psychotic diseases, and only as a direct cause. There is a whole host of less-severe problems that are seen to be essentially psychosomatic (i.e. you could "think it away" if you just made a decision to recover) or just clinical names for character flaws (laziness, stupidity, short temper, pessimism, capriciousness, etc.). I don't know for sure how widespread these views really are but I do see them expressed with some regularity, especially with regard to ADHD and depression. It's not hard to imagine that social rejection caused by undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) mental illness could be a contributing factor for criminal behavior, for example by making it harder to find a worthwhile job. Of course this is conjecture, and I only consider it to be a possibility rather than a fact, but my main point is that mental illness is far bigger than "crazy people", and it's a good idea to consider the full spectrum of disorders when considering the impact of mental illness on society.

Hey buddy, you want to be the one that pays for the drugs, facilities and employees for mentally ill? You talk about it like it's something that can be done with the flip of a switch. Trust me, if they increases to help fund care for the mentally ill, you'd probably be the first one to complain.

You say this as though leaving mental illness untreated is free just because the costs don't show up itemized on a bill. It is likely that we are already indirectly paying for costs of mental illness. Economies - especially capitalist economies - are emergent systems; you can't always make a clear and direct correlation between cause and effect, or cost and benefit. Often we can only make somewhat-educated guesses rather than properly-informed determinations when dealing with complex problems like crime and disease.

[Covar]

I like your idea of marching to washington with weapons in hand to force change for the good of our country and its people, but when it does happen it will be done by people like myself who are willing to fight for what we believe in not just whine about it.

you shouldn't need to, representaive democracy is supposed to mean that that the elected representatives represent your collective opinions (for a given constituency), but (imo) currently the representatives in the US only really represent the rich individuals and the corporations who give them money to fight their campaigns to stay elected.

funny, they represent my views and opinions and i'm broke and currently without a job. believe it or not people actually hold capitalist views and don't believe the government should hand out everything.

[mikozero]

Hey buddy, you want to be the one that pays for the drugs, facilities and employees for mentally ill? You talk about it like it's something that can be done with the flip of a switch. Trust me, if they increases to help fund care for the mentally ill, you'd probably be the first one to complain.

i live in the UK which provides free health care for everybody "from the cradle to the grave" through the NHS, it's paid for by everyones taxes and we're still the 4 largest economy in the world and guess what, it works.

try reading the thread next time.

funny, they represent my views and opinions and i'm broke and currently without a job. believe it or not people actually hold capitalist views and don't believe the government should hand out everything.

i said imo, and i don't have much to go on not being a US citizen, i don't believe in handing everything out either, i'm a Scot and am well aware of the current economic system as my forefathers invented it (even the word capitalism), we also invented something called the protestant work ethic with had a great effect on the cultural formation in the US of the ideas you express. you seem to assume i'm not a capitalist, but on the other side of some "political divide", i don't see that way at all, i don't consider helping someone fight disease a handout. if you want to be all capitalistic about it, in many ways it's a form of long term investment.

but the truth is imo that it goes beyond politics and economics, human beings are supposed to help one another, that is what i believe. what does your God, if you have one, say on the subject "let the sick die" ? i doubt it. i know there are many in the US that see it as "why should i pay for someone elses health care ?" and i said i was glad i didn't live amongst them, i've already addressed it in my first post in the thread, there's nothing i can say to any of you that will change your minds if you think that way, i'm just glad i (and the people of my nation on both sides of the "political divide") don't.

[Lartrak]

i live in the UK which provides free health care for everybody "from the cradle to the grave" through the NHS, it's paid for by everyones taxes and we're still the 4 largest economy in the world and guess what, it works.

Considering how bloated and inefficient our healthcare system is (I'm in the US), and the huge profits the companies behind it make, I'm of the opinion that universal healthcare wouldn't cost more if it was done correctly (not a lot more anyways).. People don't discuss it in those terms over here though. They generally just say "the government can't/won't/shouldn't do that", rather than attempting to look at the pros and cons of the idea. It works the same way with welfare.

Welfare has been abused in the past, and probably still is being abused in some cases, but no one EVER looks at its positive aspects. They look only to the downsides, as a way of justifying getting rid of it - it has more to do with said people's beliefs that the government has no business doing such things, rather than a belief that it doesn't work.

[Pale Rider]

It is likely that we are already indirectly paying for costs of mental illness.

you are Ex-Cyber,but it's being done in an enviroment that is not condusive for these people to actually get and stay well once the treatment is administered.the prsions are not there to treat mental illness,they are there to incarcerate habitual law breakers..take the money we see being spent on prison treatment(which frontline reported was in the millions)plus what would be saved by these people not being in prison and costing more than the health care(if ya wanna call it that),devert that money back to the mental hospital system,add in just a fraction more for the up keep of the hospitals and atleast they wouldnt be in a prison enviroment being beaten by inmates and abused by gaurds..they would atleast get a minimum care and in a proper setting...people bitch about the money as if we are broke..hell we could take a third of what haliburton scammed off the US populous and make a huge dent in the mental health system...it isnt about not having the money its about how its spent...and big haliburton schemes definately arent the way i want my tax cash spent.

[FETUS]

I think a lot of the problems with this study is they count "clinical depression" wich everybody has now and days. If someone is in prison they aren't gonna be feeling happy every day.

[Lartrak]

I think a lot of the problems with this study is they count "clinical depression" wich everybody has now and days. If someone is in prison they aren't gonna be feeling happy every day.

I do tend to agree some conditions are overdiagnosed. ADD and ADHD are EXTREMELY overdiagnosed. But, I don't think this is reason enough to not say the system needs serious fixing.

[Ex-Cyber]

I think a lot of the problems with this study is they count "clinical depression" wich everybody has now and days. If someone is in prison they aren't gonna be feeling happy every day.

The "clinical" is in "clinical depression" for a reason - namely, that it's not referring to the familiar everyday concept of unhappiness but to a defined and unsual set of symptoms.