Quake 3 engine dev kit for Dreamcast

Segata Sanshiro · Post by **Segata Sanshiro** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:04 am

If I'm out of my element here, or this has been discussed before please excuse me and delete this post...
but has anyone been to the official ID software Technology Licensing Page

and have you quake modders and program gurus read this:

Our technology is unsurpassed in the number of operating systems that it operates under. All of these are included with any of the licenses. For example, when you license the QUAKE III Arena engine, you get Mac and Linux in addition to the PC for no extra up-front cost. You’ll also have the ability to use the Dreamcast port of the engine without additional up-front cost, as well as any other operating system or console ports for which we own the source code. Both the QUAKE and QUAKE II engines have similar features and cross-platform functionality.

If this can be used in any way, please comment on the issue, i'm personally involved with game-dev for 3 years (design/modelling/animation) with another engine that has nothing to do with the DC, but will be happy if something came out of this and some cool indie projects emerge.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:58 am

To compile the Q3DC source you still would have to use the official licensed DCDevkit/(afaik) and you wouldn't be allowed to distribute you Binaries without SEGA's ermission/license.

Segata Sanshiro · Post by **Segata Sanshiro** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:18 am

OK, at least i tried

But isn't there a way to achieve anything with this? maybe a commercial project?

Morphv2 · Post by **Morphv2** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:14 am

But do you have any idea of the implications of this? ID is going to release the source of a WORKING ONLINE DREAMCAST GAME. Not only does Q3 use the BBA but the modem as well. If the source is released, we will effectively have good working network code to use in homebrew apps.

This nes is absolutely FANTASTIC.

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:30 am

Awesome

After visiting the website I've not seen any link to the Q3A DC source code - will that be released too or do you have to port it again by yourself

For the case it would be available soon and that you'd need the Katana dev kit, maybe it would still be an option for releasing Quake 3 TCs via the GOAT Store...

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:29 pm

I've read into it, and...

If your title requires the best technology available, this is what you?re looking for. You absolutely will not find a more elegantly coded engine. But, honestly, it?s not for everyone. It takes a technically savvy team to use, and it?s not priced for a "me too" title. For a single title [6] license, we charge a $250,000 guarantee against a 5% royalty of the wholesale [7] price for the title. Not cheap, but it pays for itself with the marketing cach? alone.

If you are interested in the QUAKE III Arena technology and would like to experiment with it before contacting us, simply purchase a copy of the game, then download the game source and tools from our technology downloads page.

Our technology is unsurpassed in the number of operating systems that it operates under. All of these are included with any of the licenses. For example, when you license the QUAKE III Arena engine, you get Mac and Linux in addition to the PC for no extra up-front cost. You?ll also have the ability to use the Dreamcast port of the engine without additional up-front cost, as well as any other operating system or console ports for which we own the source code. Both the QUAKE and QUAKE II engines have similar features and cross-platform functionality.

QIII may go GPL soon, but this doesn't mean that the DC source will also go GPL. All that article is saying is that if you purchase the QIII engine license, you get access to the other platform code at no extra cost.

Segata Sanshiro · Post by **Segata Sanshiro** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:25 am

QIII may go GPL soon

I've heard that rumor almost a year ago, lets keep our fingers crossed.

All that article is saying is that if you purchase the QIII engine license, you get access to the other platform code at no extra cost.

And isn't the source code for one of the best looking DC titles with online capabilities important news??

I think the price of the licence should be a lot cheaper now. Anyway ID looks like nice company toward indie game devvers, and with such an enormous and devoted Dreamcast community, if we write to them (i mean someone that knows what he's taking about, not exactly me

), we could have their attention and could profit from this. I don't mean free Dev kits for anyone, but maybe some advice from the pros or a decent price for a community funded project. I remember the interview with John Carmac (in Gamers-Republic magazine vol.2 No.4 September/1999) there he tells the story that in several occasions SEGA behaved like asses with ID about Q3 on the DC, generally not wanting to do it, then they wanted, then refused again... but he (John Carmac) wanted to do Q3 on the DC just because its a challenge and it would look and play well. That puts ID in somewhat positive light IMO.
It is possible to assemble a team for a real DC title, there are a lot of good programmers, musicians, designers, modellers and level designers on this forum, the only thing we need is enough will to fabricate a game. I know i have.

Anyway, i'm a newb to DC dev, so forgive me if i speak sh*t.

Morphv2 · Post by **Morphv2** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:02 pm

So what are you suggesting? Everyone email ID? I'm in, in that case.

HomerCIDAL · Post by **HomerCIDAL** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:11 pm

I also would like to see this happen. I know how to use GTK-Radiant/Q3Radiant/QERadiant editing tools and am still an active Quake 2 mapper. I would love to work on some DC exclusive gaming if it was possible using the Q3A engine.

Imerion · Post by **Imerion** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:21 pm

If I have understood this right, its awesome! We might be able to do our own online games finally! That is HUGE news! Lets hope that source gets a release...

DARKHALO2K · Post by **DARKHALO2K** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:43 am

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:55 pm

The source code of Doom for the SNES will never be released.
The source code of Doom for the GBA will never be released.
The source code of Doom for the 32X will never be released.
The source code of Doom for the Saturn will never be released.
The source code of Doom for the Playstation will never be released.
The source code of Doom 64 will never be released.
The source code of Quake for the Saturn will never be released.
The source code of Quake 64 will never be released.
The source code of QuakeDC will never be released.
The source code of Quake 2 for the Playstation will never be released.
The source code of Quake 2 for the Nintendo 64 will never be released.
The source code of Quake III Arena for the Playstation 2 will never be released.
The source code of Quake III Arena for the Dreamcast will never be released.

All ports of id Software games were ported using official SDKs, and were ported with/by other companies (for example, Sega developers were involved in the development of Q3A for DC), and because of this, they contain libraries, pieces of code, artwork and other elements that are not property of id Software.

id Software can not and will not put under the GPL any source code that isn't 100% their work.

Sorry for the harsh tone, but I don't know other way of making it clear enough to everyone.

pb2ya · Post by **pb2ya** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:41 pm

I really think someone should email ID and ask them about this... it's the only way to know for sure.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:27 pm

No point. When id do get around to releasing the source code for Q3, it should be possible to port it to the Dreamcast using KOS. Q3 seems to be far more resource efficient than Q2 and Q1 were, and has a lot of features that can be turned off to save resources, or to speed up rendering, almost all of which appear to be used by the official Dreamcast version.

Even if they did release the code for the DC version (which they can't, because they don't own it), it would not be useful. We couldn't use any of it because we're not using Sega's development kits.

bender · Post by **bender** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:31 pm

If they release their dc source code under the GPL it would be legal to modify that source and distribute it under the GPL (without the binaries). Anybody who owns the devkit officially, could compile his binaries.
I know this doesn't sound very good, because at the end people will use pirated versions of the sdk for getting their binaries (and probably those binaries could end in a p2p program as all those many pirated games), but the real thing it's that it'd be legal to distribute that source code under the GPL.

About the official devkit probably there's no worth os using it (not for linux users at least

) but also i think that it would be really interesting to know what sega says about distributing actually binaries with their sdk for non profit.

Smurph · Post by **Smurph** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:23 pm

If ID were to GPL Q3, and if someone could get their hands on the Q3ADC source code through legal means, it might be possible to re-write the modem and BBA code (to ensure upmost legality, so it would not contain any ID code), and engineer our own libraries to be compatible (maybe someone who is licensed the katana devkit could do it?). Sure, it would be a lot of work, but wouldn't it be worth it in the end?

MetaFox · Post by **MetaFox** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:06 pm

Sanitary Smurph wrote:If ID were to GPL Q3, and if someone could get their hands on the Q3ADC source code through legal means, it might be possible to re-write the modem and BBA code (to ensure upmost legality, so it would not contain any ID code), and engineer our own libraries to be compatible (maybe someone who is licensed the katana devkit could do it?). Sure, it would be a lot of work, but wouldn't it be worth it in the end?

For what purpose? KOS's modem and BBA code could be used with the GPL licensed Q3 sourcecode without even looking at the DC Q3A code.

Smurph · Post by **Smurph** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:48 pm

MetaFox wrote:
Sanitary Smurph wrote:If ID were to GPL Q3, and if someone could get their hands on the Q3ADC source code through legal means, it might be possible to re-write the modem and BBA code (to ensure upmost legality, so it would not contain any ID code), and engineer our own libraries to be compatible (maybe someone who is licensed the katana devkit could do it?). Sure, it would be a lot of work, but wouldn't it be worth it in the end?
For what purpose? KOS's modem and BBA code could be used with the GPL licensed Q3 sourcecode without even looking at the DC Q3A code.

I was under the impression that the homebrew modem/BBA stuff was somewhat incomplete.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:03 pm

Sure, it would be a lot of work, but wouldn't it be worth it in the end?

No. The networking code that Quake 1 and 2 uses actually wouldn't need much modification to get it working on the Dreamcast (and I might have tried if I had a BBA, which I don't). The KOS networking API is pretty standard, so the only bits that really need changing are the initialisation bits (because you need to initialise the network hardware, rather than just assuming the operating system has done it all for you).

I was under the impression that the homebrew modem/BBA stuff was somewhat incomplete.

The BBA stuff works fine, and has done for years. The networking stack works just fine. The modem works fine, although only at 33Kbps. The only problem is that the networking stack doesn't work with the modem, although it works fine with a serial cable.

Smurph · Post by **Smurph** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:40 am

Oh. Nevermind then.