NETHERLANDS HOSPITAL EUTHANIZES BABIES

Talk about anything and everything not related to this site or the Dreamcast, such as news stories, political discussion, or anything else. If there's not a forum for it, it belongs in here. Also, be warned that personal insults, threats, and spamming will not be tolerated.
User avatar
AuroEdge
DCEmu Mega Poster
DCEmu Mega Poster
Posts: 1667
https://www.artistsworkshop.eu/meble-kuchenne-na-wymiar-warszawa-gdzie-zamowic/
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Anywhere
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

NETHERLANDS HOSPITAL EUTHANIZES BABIES

Post by AuroEdge »

Nov 30, 4:24 PM (ET)
By TOBY STERLING

Image

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures, which include administering a lethal dose of sedatives.

The announcement by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.

In August, the main Dutch doctors' association KNMG urged the Health Ministry to create an independent board to review euthanasia cases for terminally ill people "with no free will," including children, the severely mentally retarded and people left in an irreversible coma after an accident.

The Health Ministry is preparing its response, which could come as soon as December, a spokesman said.

Three years ago, the Dutch parliament made it legal for doctors to inject a sedative and a lethal dose of muscle relaxant at the request of adult patients suffering great pain with no hope of relief.

The Groningen Protocol, as the hospital's guidelines have come to be known, would create a legal framework for permitting doctors to actively end the life of newborns deemed to be in similar pain from incurable disease or extreme deformities.

The guideline says euthanasia is acceptable when the child's medical team and independent doctors agree the pain cannot be eased and there is no prospect for improvement, and when parents think it's best.

Examples include extremely premature births, where children suffer brain damage from bleeding and convulsions; and diseases where a child could only survive on life support for the rest of its life, such as severe cases of spina bifida and epidermosis bullosa, a rare blistering illness.

The hospital revealed last month it carried out four such mercy killings in 2003, and reported all cases to government prosecutors. There have been no legal proceedings against the hospital or the doctors.

Roman Catholic organizations and the Vatican have reacted with outrage to the announcement, and U.S. euthanasia opponents contend the proposal shows the Dutch have lost their moral compass.

"The slippery slope in the Netherlands has descended already into a vertical cliff," said Wesley J. Smith, a prominent California-based critic, in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Child euthanasia remains illegal everywhere. Experts say doctors outside Holland do not report cases for fear of prosecution.

"As things are, people are doing this secretly and that's wrong," said Eduard Verhagen, head of Groningen's children's clinic. "In the Netherlands we want to expose everything, to let everything be subjected to vetting."

According to the Justice Ministry, four cases of child euthanasia were reported to prosecutors in 2003. Two were reported in 2002, seven in 2001 and five in 2000. All the cases in 2003 were reported by Groningen, but some of the cases in other years were from other hospitals.

Groningen estimated the protocol would be applicable in about 10 cases per year in the Netherlands, a country of 16 million people.

Since the introduction of the Dutch law, Belgium has also legalized euthanasia, while in France, legislation to allow doctor-assisted suicide is currently under debate. In the United States, the state of Oregon is alone in allowing physician-assisted suicide, but this is under constant legal challenge.

However, experts acknowledge that doctors euthanize routinely in the United States and elsewhere, but that the practice is hidden.

"Measures that might marginally extend a child's life by minutes or hours or days or weeks are stopped. This happens routinely, namely, every day," said Lance Stell, professor of medical ethics at Davidson College in Davidson, N.C., and staff ethicist at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, N.C. "Everybody knows that it happens, but there's a lot of hypocrisy. Instead, people talk about things they're not going to do."

More than half of all deaths occur under medical supervision, so it's really about management and method of death, Stell said.
---------------------
I wonder if Dr. Jack Kevorkian was involved.
Image
"The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is
that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too." -Oscar Levant
User avatar
Roofus
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
Posts: 9898
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:42 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: NETHERLANDS HOSPITAL EUTHANIZES BABIES

Post by Roofus »

AuroEdge wrote:I wonder if Dr. Jack Kevorkian was involved.
Kevorkian is in prison.
User avatar
toastman
Iron Fist of Justice
Iron Fist of Justice
Posts: 4933
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 3:08 am
Location: New Orleans
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by toastman »

"A hospital in the Netherlands recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns."

Big difference from "OMG THEY KILL TEH N00BS!!111"
It's not like they are whacking random babies over the head with a mallet. These are infants who are going to die regardless. I say end it quick before they suffer too much.
No signature.
User avatar
Roofus
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
Posts: 9898
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:42 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Roofus »

Just a hypothetical question: How do we know a kid with no brain (or a severely retarded kid) is suffering? Chances are at best he's very, very dimly aware of what's going on. If you can't prove he or she is actually in pain (indeed, you could probably make a good case for the baby not feeling pain at all) how does that constitute suffering?

I'm not trying to advocate a particular position here, I'm just trying to open discussion
MystiK
DCEmu Nutter
DCEmu Nutter
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:44 pm
Location: the Islands
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by MystiK »

that title is misleading. The Schiavo case in Florida is the same as this
French Connection United Kingdom should be renamed to French Union Connection Klothing
Skater_dusto
DCEmu Cool Poster
DCEmu Cool Poster
Posts: 1121
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:05 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Skater_dusto »

Why are people so bloody uptight about euthanasia? Is it that they're bible humpers or just self righteous tards who think that regardless of the circumstances it's simply (and without a god damned explanation) not good to let people go?

Toastman hit the baby on the head with his statement, it's not like they're slaughtering innocent babies. If they're terminally ill, or are mentally debilitated then I'm sure that the parents have a right to choose whether or not they stay alive? I never bothered to read the article, but I'm fairly certain that the doctors have the parents consent before the euthanize the toddlers. Otherwise I would retract my remarks, and be outraged that a doctor took the life of my child without letting me make the decision myself.
User avatar
toastman
Iron Fist of Justice
Iron Fist of Justice
Posts: 4933
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2001 3:08 am
Location: New Orleans
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by toastman »

Roofus wrote:Just a hypothetical question: How do we know a kid with no brain (or a severely retarded kid) is suffering? Chances are at best he's very, very dimly aware of what's going on. If you can't prove he or she is actually in pain (indeed, you could probably make a good case for the baby not feeling pain at all) how does that constitute suffering?

I'm not trying to advocate a particular position here, I'm just trying to open discussion
Not even talking about the brainless variety here, just the terminally ill.
You can tell when a baby is suffering, they let you know.
As for the mentally deficient, that's a whole nother case. Yes, where does one draw the line? How deficient is deficient enough?
No signature.
User avatar
AuroEdge
DCEmu Mega Poster
DCEmu Mega Poster
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Anywhere
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by AuroEdge »

From my recent experience (thoroughly explained in my A favor post) is that you must first consider the person's wishes, and then do everything you can to make their health better. If they're really sick and just want to die, do whatever you can to keep them alive without compromising their comfort. In the case of babies, nobody knows what it wants. So, all one can do is do everything you can do to keep it alive.
Image
"The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is
that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too." -Oscar Levant
User avatar
Roofus
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
Posts: 9898
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:42 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Roofus »

AuroEdge wrote:From my recent experience (thoroughly explained in my A favor post) is that you must first consider the person's wishes, and then do everything you can to make their health better. If they're really sick and just want to die, do whatever you can to keep them alive without compromising their comfort. In the case of babies, nobody knows what it wants. So, all one can do is do everything you can do to keep it alive.
Sometimes being alive isn't enough. We seem to be obsessed with doing whatever we can to keep the heart beating and lungs breathing (if that) for as long as we can, even after the mind is long gone. All I can do is try to think what I would want if I was in their place. If my mind were to go, or if I faced a lifetime of persistent unmanageable pain, I'd want to die. And I'd have to presune that that's what my loved one would want. Keeping them alive for you because that's what you want is selfish and wrong.
farrell2k
DCEmu Fan
DCEmu Fan
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:49 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by farrell2k »

People should mind their own business more often. If someone wants to euthanize their terminally ill child, then he/she should be allowed to do so, as long as both parents consent.
User avatar
not just souLLy now
DCEmu Respected
DCEmu Respected
Posts: 4070
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by not just souLLy now »

farrell2k wrote:People should mind their own business more often. If someone wants to euthanize their terminally ill child, then he/she should be allowed to do so, as long as both parents consent.
watch out dude you're at risk of sounding liberal and openminded.
Matt
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4235
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: By my PC Hair:Bad
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by Matt »

where a child could only survive on life support for the rest of its life, such as severe cases of spina bifida and epidermosis bullosa, a rare blistering illness.
I spose im for it then
User avatar
arrowhead
DCEmu Super Fan
DCEmu Super Fan
Posts: 2601
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 5:21 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by arrowhead »

"So its ok to have an abortion but its not OK to euthanize a baby? Where do you draw the line? Killing is killing. Teh abortion is teh ev17."

Im just kidding, I dont really want to hijack this and somehow turn it into an abortion issue. I was just sure that sometime soon a brainwashed pro life moron would somehow bring it back to abortion and I wanted to quote a fictional sheep prior to its actual chime in.

If there is no way in hell these babies can have any quality of life, or life without total and utter pain, or even have the cognitive ability to know they are actually a living being the parents should have the option of euthanasia. Why should the parents wake up everyday to a pain that none of us can imagine until perhaps we have had our own terminally ill newborn? Its like taking care of a plant that everytime you look at it a feeling of hopeless despair envelopes your entire being. Would you force another human to live with that pain and despair? I should hope not.
Shut that cunts mouth before I come over there and fuck start her head
-Azathoth-
Jounin Shinobi
Jounin Shinobi
Posts: 4215
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2002 10:48 pm
Location: Watching Anna Ohura Posts: ????
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by -Azathoth- »

I think as long as you view the situation very carefully, as not to kill children who COULD lead normal lives, then it should be ok. Obviously there must remain extreme scrutiny when deciding if a newborn should be killed.
"Deviantart is the home of messed up emo kids"
Image
weeperofsouls
DCEmu Nutter
DCEmu Nutter
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:35 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by weeperofsouls »

i never understood why people get so worked up about euthanasia. i mean, most people dont care about a complete stranger beforehand, but if they want the right to end their own lives, suddenly they care and start whining about the sanctity of life. damn hypocrits.
User avatar
Roofus
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
President & CEO Roofuscorp, LLC
Posts: 9898
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:42 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Roofus »

weeperofsouls wrote:i never understood why people get so worked up about euthanasia. i mean, most people dont care about a complete stranger beforehand, but if they want the right to end their own lives, suddenly they care and start whining about the sanctity of life. damn hypocrits.
Because some people are not happy unless they're minding other people's business
farrell2k
DCEmu Fan
DCEmu Fan
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:49 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by farrell2k »

weeperofsouls wrote:i never understood why people get so worked up about euthanasia. i mean, most people dont care about a complete stranger beforehand, but if they want the right to end their own lives, suddenly they care and start whining about the sanctity of life. damn hypocrits.
Well said.
Nick
DCEmu Super Fan
DCEmu Super Fan
Posts: 2498
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:11 am
Location: United States
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Nick »

Isn't this kind of *almost* like building a perfect race type thing? In a way, it is.

But honestly, I would say if they are in pain and would be a vegetable, then euthanasia is merciful.

[quote=Roofus]Keeping them alive for you because that's what you want is selfish and wrong.[/quote]

How right this is. I honestly think, when someone dies, people cry more for themselves than for the deceased. Afterall, how do we know death is a bad thing?
Very sexy hero, omg
BlackAura
DC Developer
DC Developer
Posts: 9951
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2001 9:02 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by BlackAura »

Isn't this kind of *almost* like building a perfect race type thing? In a way, it is.
Eugenics? Not really. These kids would either not have survived long enough to procreate, or would have been unable to do so.
User avatar
Cn'Fused
Insane DCEmu
Insane DCEmu
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Cn'Fused »

Crikey!
The fact that they're performing it before it has become legal is what disturbs me the most. I mean, if they're going to die then a quick death might be better, but at least try not to do it until it is legal.

Man, these issues are so hard to think about...:(
Post Reply