'Radquake Final' and mods...

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:55 am

Today I've tried the beta version of Envenom with 'RADQuake final' and it seems that the controls are causing the slowdowns, not the PVR renderer which was my first thought.
I could not get corporal to run, instead he moves as if I'd press the button and pull it immediatly.
I havent tried saving yet cause my VM is full but I guess it'll work.

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:27 am

I think they're a lot of factors in RADQuake (final)'s slowdowns. While playing regular Quake, shutting off the HUD entire actually improves performance quite a bit. On visual judgement, it looks like it hits +50 FPS in some areas.

Post by **Tyne** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:06 am

The controls are causing slowdown? What the heck? You did execute the dreamcast controller binds I setup in it right? All you need to do is open controls.cfg and uncomment the Dreamcast related stuff.

Post by **Quzar** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:10 pm

if the controls are still SDL then that is probably what is causing the problems, because SDL controller code is slow.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:37 pm

It's never used SDL controls. It uses the input driver I wrote for nxQuake, which is KOS only, and I've never noticed any kind of problem with it.

speud · Post by **speud** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:52 pm

controls were never changed actually.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:02 am

hmm, no slowdowns when i play with the keyboard!
Turning off the rumblepack in the menu doesnt help (i dont have any btw)
but when i control the player via keayboard it works without any 'slowdowns'.

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:37 am

the only relevant difference with mods is the keys/buttons binded.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:45 am

the slowdowns happen on normal quake as well. maybe my controller is broken?

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:23 pm

the slowdowns happen on normal quake as well.

no it doesnt.

maybe my controller is broken?

no its not, like i said the controls havent been changed since 4.4.

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:30 pm

Just to say, I'm kinda disappointed with RadQuake Final, especially if it's final and lacking CD Audio, a mod menu, and not fixing that step height bug I've complained about so often - especially since it has a very negative effect on Envenom's playability (which means I may make it lean towards NxQuake).

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:48 pm

if you dont like it and prefere the previous versions then just dont use this version. i dont see why you would prefere the previous versions though. it doesnt have any negative effect on controls, thats just the default config is loaded properly now, so just fix the default config file and it will work like it did with 4.4.

also i offered to send you a beta so you can test it with your mod some time ago. so now dont reproach me the fact that your mod is not designed for this version. plus i told you about the binding problem with the preview you sent me. also reproaching me not to fix a bug just because you mentionned it is really selfish, and you never told me about this bug btw.

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:54 pm

speud wrote:if you dont like it and prefere the previous versions then just dont use this version. i dont see why you would prefere the previous versions though. it doesnt have any negative effect on controls, thats just the default config is loaded properly now, so just fix the default config file and it will work like it did with 4.4.

also i offered to send you a beta so you can test it with your mod some time ago. so now dont reproach me the fact that your mod is not designed for this version. plus i told you about the binding problem with the preview you sent me. also reproaching me not to fix a bug just because you mentionned it is really selfish, and you never told me about this bug btw.

I prefer the older version simply because of the mod menu, it allows me to test my mods as many times as I want without conflicting graphics from multiple pak files in the /ID1/ directory. For example, if a mod changes the HUD at the bottom of the screen, then I burned my mod overtop of that one in a new pak file I would most likely get the HUD from the mod before since I never managed to get around to making a custom HUD for my mod and there's more reasons on top of that one.

I'd waste many more CDs testing Envenom simply because Quake only allows up to 8 PAK files, but on 4.4 I can burn Envenom over 100 times simply because it resides in it's own directory each burn.

Don't call me selfish for being disappointed with your release that's not being selfish at all; makes me wonder if you even know the meaning of selfish :|, I'm just stating my opinion just like Carmack states his opinion on why he prefers OpenGL over Direct3D.

The binding "problems" in my mod are not my problems at all - I told people to uncomment the Dreamcast controller binds in the controls.cfg which Envenom loads up EVERY level change; not to mention I have it loading the proper controls every time on my test CD which is currently using 4.4. This also works flawlessly on the PC version ofcourse.

I've mentioned the step height bug many times to Ian, about 10 times atleast I pretty much expected him to tell you about it but I guess he never got around to it (he even told me he'd bring it to your attention). - The reason I say I'm leaning towards nxQuake is because if I were to have release Envenom on this version of RadQuake (which is what I'd LIKE to do); I'd have to undergo some map changes and put up invisible walls to stop the player from going where I don't want him to go :\ The invisible walls would stop projectiles too and the mod would look sloppy.

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:28 pm

you can use multisessions' discs.

you didnt simply gave your opinion. you do reproach me not to have fixed the bug you claim having mentionned many times.

yes its a problem with your mod. why does it load the default cfg at every level change? the original quake only loads the default cfg at host inting, then you can reload it from the options. of course if you design it for 4.4 you'll get some compatibility problems, as i said the binding init has changed, and the config's loading wasnt there before this version.

i never heard about the step height bug.

i dont reproach you to wait and see how nxQuake will be. i just reproach your negative attitude about RADquake final. like i said, if you dont like it then dont use it. actually it was almost canned, i released it anyway hoping people who planned to release mods using the new feature would enjoy it. and now the same people reproach it to me, crazy.

(EDIT: Accidently edited speuds post instead of properly quoting it, d'oh! I'll be more careful next time

- Tyne)

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:57 pm

speud: The modmenu was present in the released binary of RADQuake 4.4, but apparently it doesn't work in the source which Ian released. I noticed several differences between the binaries and their corresponding source codes in more than one of the releases of RADQuake, most notably in the versions 4.4 and 4.5. To put it simple, the source which Ian released isn't the one compiled in the binary. IIRC, it seems that the source of RADQuake 4.3 is the only one that has the modlist working.

Also I believe when you said that Ian never told you about Tyne's request.

Now let's everyone keep this discussion at the techinical level, please.

Post by **Quzar** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:58 pm

just so you know speud, your use of the word reproach is incorrect most of the times you use it.

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:04 pm

quzar, I'd like to ask you and everyone else to use the

button when you want to send a personal message.

I don't want to start deleting posts or to lock the topic.

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:52 pm

Fragger wrote:speud: The modmenu was present in the released binary of RADQuake 4.4, but apparently it doesn't work in the source which Ian released. I noticed several differences between the binaries and their corresponding source codes in more than one of the releases of RADQuake, most notably in the versions 4.4 and 4.5. To put it simple, the source which Ian released isn't the one compiled in the binary. IIRC, it seems that the source of RADQuake 4.3 is the only one that has the modlist working.

yes i know one version had the mod menu working, it wasnt in the code i used anyway. also ian told me about the compatibility problem of the mod-menu with 4.4's source, thats why the version released didnt have the mod-menu implemented. as its something that i didnt plan to include and it could have taken some time to implement it i asked ian if he was ok if i released it without the mod-menu, so he could try and add it later if he wanted to. despite the "final" name this version might have a few other releases to fix unexpected bugs or implement features that are really missing. whether this release is the last one or not isnt up to me anyway, like i said before.

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:35 pm

you can use multisessions' discs.

I could yes, but as I said before; Quake only allows around 8 PAK files in the /ID1/ directory or mod directories (on the PC version or Radquake 4.4) before it crashes and refuses to work, something every hardcore Quake modder/engine coder knows. This means I could only run aproximately 6 Envenom tests on the same CD (since regular Quake already has 2 paks reserved for it) and then I'd have to burn a new one. I'm currently on Envenom Test #13 using RadQuake 4.4 on a single CD with the mod menu.

you didnt simply gave your opinion. you do reproach me not to have fixed the bug you claim having mentionned many times.

I don't understand this but I'll say I did give my reasons for not liking this version (no modmenu, no cd audio, etc..) - calling it final is silly too since it lacks many things such as the absolutely awesome CD audio that helps Quake's atmosphere a ton.

yes its a problem with your mod. why does it load the default cfg at every level change? the original quake only loads the default cfg at host inting, then you can reload it from the options. of course if you design it for 4.4 you'll get some compatibility problems, as i said the binding init has changed, and the config's loading wasnt there before this version.

My mod doesn't load "default.cfg" at startup, in the QuakeC of Envenom it's setup to load "controls.cfg" every map change which includes all the Dreamcast controller binds and shouldn't be a problem whatsoever. FrikaC and others from the Quake community can back me up on this one.

i never heard about it.

That's both mine and Ian's fault I guess, well as long as you know now since it's changing gameplay mechanics drastically in mods and regular Quake also; kinda weird since I don't see how the step height could of changed in the first place.

i dont reproach you to wait and see how nxQuake will be. i just reproach your negative attitude about RADquake final. like i said, if you dont like it then dont use it. actually it was almost canned, i released it anyway hoping people who planned to release mods using the new feature would enjoy it. and now the same people reproach it to me, crazy.

Oh so if I'm disappointed in something you release I automatically have negative attitude? Ok there speud.

Most people can take constructive critisism but I guess you just can't handle it.

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:08 pm

Step height bug has been solved! How simple too..

I asked FrikaC on IRC where the step height code is stored:

<FrikaC> RenegadeC: top of sv_move.c for movetype_walk and about midway down in sv_phys.c for MOVETYPE_STEP
<FrikaC> RenegadeC: in both cases the define it:
<FrikaC> #define STEPSIZE 18

Forwarded it to Fragger on MSN and..

Manoel says:
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!1111111111
I suck at MSN says:
What?
Manoel says:
// Ian micheal
#define STEPSIZE 30
I suck at MSN says:
jesus christ