Silent DC

Ni-Mh Foe · Post by **Ni-Mh Foe** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:12 am

My DC is perhaps the loudest piece of electronic hardware I've ever owned - And that's no understatement. So I've been trying to do whatever I can to quiet this thing down. I started by replacing the metal plate/heatsink covering the top of the mobo, and putting two fanless GPU heatsinks on the CPU and GPU. I then replaced the original metal plate with a wire mesh, to help neutralize those radio waves, if it makes a difference. My only problem is the cooling fan which I want to remove completely, but there's a problem. The fan is one of those three-wire jobs and the DC won't work for more than ten seconds unless it detects an RPM signal from the fan. Does anybody know if there's any way to trick the DC into thinking there is a functional fan attached? I've already tried removing the actual fan blade from the shaft, but obviously, a brushless motor won't spin without the fan blade, thus it will not send an RPM signal to the DC. I was thinking that some quartz crystal might be able to generate a suitable signal, but it's only a guess. Does anybody have any suggestions?

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:57 pm

People have successfully bypassed that by (from what I understand) just applying a little voltage to the wire. But you shouldn't run a DC with no fan, even with better heatsinks. The heat will build up and it will get really hot, unless you plan on running it without a case. Why not use a larger, but slower fan? It could push about as much air, because its larger, but would be quieter because it would spin at a lower rpm.

Also, I don't know about you, but the biggest source of noise from my DC is the GD-ROM during heavy loading. My fan isn't that loud, just a soft whir. So I don't know if this is going to do what you really want.

Ni-Mh Foe · Post by **Ni-Mh Foe** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:41 pm

Thanks for the reply

My specific DC actually seems to have a significantly louder fan than my brother's and friend's. I know they used to make DCs with liquid cooling, but I don't think either of theirs are equipped. It's not really so much the sound volume that I find annoying - It's really more the "tone" of the fan.

The heat sinks that I used for the CPU and GPU are actually specifically designed to replace fan-based heat sinks on graphics cards. Anyway I'll first try to run it w/o the fan, carefully monitoring the temp. If it gets too high, I'll just go with a larger fan. - Thanks.

Dreamcast ? · Post by **Dreamcast ?** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:27 pm

From my own personal experience, at least, I've noted that fans seem to get a bit nosier when they are dirty. You might want to try using some form of compressed air (be it from an air compressor or a can) and try to clean it out a bit. My bios fan on my PC makes a grinding sound when it gets clogged up, and a few bursts of air normally clean it out and takes care of the problem for a while.

Dreamcast ?

someoneElse · Post by **someoneElse** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:47 pm

Ni-Mh Foe wrote:Thanks for the reply
I know they used to make DCs with liquid cooling, but I don't think either of theirs are equipped.

Those were heatpipes. They move the heat from the chips to a metal fan housing where the plastic one now resides, and acts as a sort of radiator. I say sort of because it didn't do much good. They would have worked a lot better if the radiator had been larger.

Dreamcast ? wrote:My bios fan on my PC makes a grinding sound when it gets clogged up

You have a fan on your BIOS chip?

Heh, that's probably the NorthBridge chip. It handles the interface between CPU, Memory, AGP.

Post by **Quzar** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:42 pm

my PC is the loudest thing i own. when watching TV with it off, i have it on 12-15, with it on, that has to go to 18-22 just to be audible at all.

bizzle · Post by **bizzle** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:57 pm

My PC is pretty loud becuase I have 4 LED fans in the front of the case.. not sure how loud they are, 2 Thermaltake Smart Fan II's in the back running at 5000rpm plus 2 on the PSU, one 4000rpm fan on the CPU, ect.. but I deal with it. It's not THAT distracting when I have music/television on.

Post by **Quzar** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:40 am

dual CPUs. each has a thermaltake tornado 7 (? maybe 9, whichever is the lit edition color and such). these things are loud as hell. 2 back fans. one front fan, one side fan, one loud PSU fan, 3 smaller fans inside the case (40mm) and a set of two 40mm fans cooling my primary hard drive. on top of that i have 5 hard drives.

lots of moving. it IS cold as hell inside my case though!

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:41 am

Ni-Mh Foe wrote:The heat sinks that I used for the CPU and GPU are actually specifically designed to replace fan-based heat sinks on graphics cards. Anyway I'll first try to run it w/o the fan, carefully monitoring the temp. If it gets too high, I'll just go with a larger fan. - Thanks.

Doesn't matter what the heatsinks are like. They could be 4 times as big and copper, the heat has to GO someplace, see? So you either have to punch holes in the top all over, or have some sort of fan. It doesn't have to push THAT much air, and a larger one would be nearly silent and wouldn't have a whir/whine in the same frequency range.

Quzar and Xylene: That's by choice though.

The noisiest thing in my PC are the HDs, and that's mostly because they're right up in the front of the case and therefore are about 20" from my face right now. Still pretty quiet.

Post by **Quzar** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:13 am

i dont WANT my compy to be loud. i want to have it function so i cool it. as a result its loud. i want a new case that is more thermodynamically oriented.

Nemesis · Post by **Nemesis** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:49 am

My comp isn't loud,...except when you burn... then it's loud...

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:02 pm

quzar wrote:i dont WANT my compy to be loud. i want to have it function so i cool it. as a result its loud. i want a new case that is more thermodynamically oriented.

The case isn't the biggest issue if you've got fans that go "wheeeeee" all the time. A poor choice in HSF(s), case fans, PSU, HDs, etc, can result in that kind of noise. I've made mistakes in the past on that front, I know how it goes. If you absolutely need serious cooling, you might as well invest in mid-grade watercooling. I know you have two CPUs, so you'd either want twin 80mm radiators or a 120mm radiator. Otherwise, I there are better aircooling solutions for a good balance. As for case, I currently favor Antec's Sonata and any chassis that shares its design. Primarily because of the HD bays, as they rock, but I like quiet 120mm fans too.

Oh, and I'd like to mention that my northbridge fan also clogged easily and made a ruckus. So instead of cleaning it again, I replaced it with a larger passive heatsink. It probably didn't even need that, could have likely just removed the fan, but I'm cautious.

Post by **Quzar** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:42 pm

The thing with watercooling is that i cant find a good internal solution that will fit in my case. The thing i was saying about the case, is that i want one of those new Lian-Li V2000 series cases, the ones that are btx styled. It has space for 12 HDDs and 6 5 1/4 bays as well.

Oh, also, i know you can have both processors on one radiator, but like... ugh i really dont like the idea of passing hot water over one of them =P.

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:33 am

quzar wrote:Oh, also, i know you can have both processors on one radiator, but like... ugh i really dont like the idea of passing hot water over one of them =P.

You don't have to. Ideally you would have two radiators. But even with one radiator, you can always split the flow of water, and then recombine it after it goes through both CPUs. The only complication I can think of is that you would have to use blocks fitted with smaller connectors. You aren't likely going to be splitting a 1/2" to two 1/2", pressure would drop too much.

Also, I'm pretty sure you could fit an internal kit, but probably not a great one. Enough to get the job done, but might as well get a new case too. Of course, you could just get a pair of Copper Silent 2s or something and stick with air cooling.

someoneElse · Post by **someoneElse** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:05 am

quzar wrote: Oh, also, i know you can have both processors on one radiator, but like... ugh i really dont like the idea of passing hot water over one of them =P.

The temperature difference of water before and after a waterblock is usually very minimal, sometimes only by a degree or two, since the water is only in contact with the heat sources for a split second, before being moved on down the line. So the heat is distributed throughout the entire volume of water in the loop. You just need a big high performance radiator capable of dissipating the wattage being dumped into the entire volume of water.

Multiple radiators don't really do much at all. They work as a differential, so you get much better dissipation on the first radiator in the line, because there's more heat. Another radiator in the line just won't have enough of a differential between the coolant and the air to have much impact for the cost and hassle. One big radiator is good, preferably an automotive style heater core. (Many 'professional' PC radiators are simply rebadged automotive heatercores with hose barb fittings attached)

I suggest going over the water cooling sections at http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Lots of useful information, including what has to be THE best article on coolant chemistry EVER..

http://www.overclockers.com/tips1153/

That's Part Two, so be sure to go to the Part One linked near the top.

Post by **Quzar** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:30 am

i used to frequent that forum a lot and i have been all around overclockers.com.

i just wish i could find that case that swiftech(i think?) made for a while that had integrated watercooling for DP. At the moment though, there really just isnt any room in my case for anything, and i dont like external stuff. (where would my DC go?

[it sits on top of my computer hooked up to vga box hooked up to computer speakers through input 2 then to a KVM switch with the vga box and two PS/2 =>DC adapters, if only i had a BBA and a nexus vm, then it would have like... all the ports of an old PC hehe] )

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:04 pm

someoneElse wrote:The temperature difference of water before and after a waterblock is usually very minimal, sometimes only by a degree or two, since the water is only in contact with the heat sources for a split second, before being moved on down the line. So the heat is distributed throughout the entire volume of water in the loop. You just need a big high performance radiator capable of dissipating the wattage being dumped into the entire volume of water.

That depends on a lot of factors. A hot CPU and a hot waterblock, especially if you aren't using a high-flow high-pressure system, the water can heat up. It isn't usually a problem though as long as your cooling is good enough (see below next quote). Sometimes running in parallel can produce better results, as long as you know what you're doing and how to keep pressure up. Pressure is even more important than flow for waterblock performance.

someoneElse wrote:Multiple radiators don't really do much at all. They work as a differential, so you get much better dissipation on the first radiator in the line, because there's more heat. Another radiator in the line just won't have enough of a differential between the coolant and the air to have much impact for the cost and hassle. One big radiator is good, preferably an automotive style heater core. (Many 'professional' PC radiators are simply rebadged automotive heatercores with hose barb fittings attached)

Again, you don't always run stuff in serial... especially radiators. If you have two radiators, you often will want to go parallel. It depends on your particular situation, but for a quick example: http://www.wc101.com/articles/vs/

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:11 pm

quzar wrote:i just wish i could find that case that swiftech(i think?) made for a while that had integrated watercooling for DP.

Although I'd rather get a different case and just install watercooling myself, it isn't a bad chassis. Not all of the Quiet Power are dual CPU-ready though, I think you have to get one that comes with a second waterblock or buy one yourself.

someoneElse · Post by **someoneElse** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:50 pm

Splitting for a pair of waterblocks AND splitting for a pair of radiators needs a pretty powerful pump to get water through both radiators after the pressure loss, for no actual real world gains. Why stop there you may as well have two pumps and two loops?

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:18 pm

someoneElse wrote:Splitting for a pair of waterblocks AND splitting for a pair of radiators needs a pretty powerful pump to get water through both radiators after the pressure loss, for no actual real world gains. Why stop there you may as well have two pumps and two loops?

Splitting for the radiators alone is usually more feasible for people to do. It depends on your parts and your system. Using two loops would be fine, but you can save space and money using one somewhat more powerful pump. If I had the parts to keep pressure high enough, and decided to split for the radiators and blocks, I'd only have to split once. Tubing would go straight from each radiator to a block. But you're right, most people won't have the parts to net good gains.

Using one larger radiator is simply a superior solution, I agree. But if you have two, second radiator would be all but useless if you chained them one after the other. You would get better use (if you have good flow) with parallel radiators only, or *maybe* if you did something creative like Radiator -> CPU -> CPU -> Radiator -> GPU -> northbridge. I haven't seen anyone set something like that up.