Gay Marriage Ban Defeated

Cn'Fused · Post by **Cn'Fused** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:06 am

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I'm not trying to bash anyone with this link by the way, I thought it would be interesting for all people to look at it and think about it. It makes me think whether we should take everything within the Bible literally. There was a reference I once read where some guy's daughters slept with him so they could pass his seed along or something, but obviously incest isn't something accepted.

I can't remember the Bible section which condemns homosexuality, but I'm absolutely certain there will be some problem with the wording of the text, or the fact that it contradicts with something else, blah blah farkedy blah. So have a look if you like...

greay · Post by **greay** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:12 am

<sigh> this again?

az_bont wrote:
EvilN wrote:Similiar to what vegeta said, being gay is a choice, not something they are born with.(Link me if I'm wrong, and I think I am).
I don't have a link to hand, but I think I have something better. If you think being gay is a choice, then be gay for a week. Go on. Wake up tomorrow and say to yourself, "I choose to be gay this week, and during this period I will be sexually attracted to men, and want to engage in sexual relations with them".

If it works, then I'll admit that you're right.

You stole my line

Why doesn't anybody who claims it's a choice ever respond to this?

I'll go for the conditioning argument this time. Conditioning = repeating an action, which results in feedback, in order to produce a particular behavior in response to certain stimuli.

If being gay is the result of conditioning, as some people claim, then at some point while growing up, before the sexual attraction part of my brain developed, I must have sat down with pictures of hot guys and said to myself, "wow he's hot" and kept repeating that until it became second nature. To the point that I don't just say to myself, "he's hot", but actually believe it.

The only problem is, I did that with girls. I actually tried to condition myself to be attracted to girls, because I believed that crap about being gay would send me to hell.

I even tried to date a girl. She was friendly, and smart. A great girl. Except I wasn't attracted to her. I had no desire to touch her, or kiss her, or any of that. I tried to want to do that, but I couldn't do it. And I couldn't just pretend, because it wouldn't be fair to her - she deserved someone who actually wanted to be with her. not just be her friend.

So, the thing is, you just can't change being gay. Just as much as you can't change being straight. You can change your behaviour - I haven't had sex in about four years, because I don't want to go through the trouble of a relationship, and I'm not down with casual sex - but you can't change who you're attracted to. Period.

EDIT: here's a link to a discussion on Leviticus and homosexuality: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm

Egotistical EvilN · Post by **Egotistical EvilN** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:15 am

For the record, I was merely posting news.I didn't mean to start a debate.

Captain Spaulding · Post by **Captain Spaulding** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:18 pm

It didnt get that bad until my Adam and Eve comment

scott6565 · Post by **scott6565** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:03 pm

Pointless personal attack deleted -HH

scott6565 · Post by **scott6565** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:30 pm

man gay people piss me off, theyre always going on those gay protest marches! they have this snotty fucking "im gay, deal with it" attitude and then when we do and cut off a few of their rights they cry like babys. They think being gay is so cool and cutting edge, "look at me im gay but im ok with that", good work asshole we dont f*ckign care, being a fag doesnt make you anymore of a person your still loser.The only people who piss me off more than gay people are people who be friends with gay people for stupid reasons, they tend to have this attitude: "hey look at me i can handle having a gay friend, that means im way cooler and intelectually ahead of all of you". Anyways... There is somthing about homosexuality that is just wrong, i think its probly some kind of brain sickness or somthing. If you think about it, people who were bi-polar were once thought to just be cry babys but now we know that its a brain defect type thing as result of smaller brain tissue at the frontal lobs or somthign liek that, dont quote me on that part cause i sleep through psycology class so i might have just pulled that out of my ass. Anyways Im pretty sure this fag thing is gonna have similar results.

i almost forgot about the topic... let them get married, but DO NOT let them adopt kids thats just trouble

Watch your language, please - Roofus

greay · Post by **greay** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:59 pm

good work asshole we dont f*ckign care

Well, it's clear you do care, otherwise you wouldn't get so worked up about it. I think what you meant to say is that you don't want to hear about it, which is fine. I don't really want to hear about whom you have sex with, either.

So for the record I'm not thrilled about the gay pride marches, either. I don't think there's anything wrong w/em, mind you, but I'd never go to one. They're a celebration of "gay culture" which I'm simply not a part of - I'd feel just as much an outsider as you. Well, maybe a little less because the display wouldn't bother me as much.

Next: so let's assume being gay is a defect. A brain sickness. So what? It doesn't affect someone's capacity to live a happy life. It's not like any other sickness in that it doesn't affect a person's ability to perform any day-to-day tasks (whereas bipolar disorder makes life really hard for the person that suffers from it). Being "cured" of being gay wouldn't make someone's life any better. So... what's the sense in worrying about it?

lastly: I don't really know what sort of trouble letting gay couples adopt kids would cause. I love my parents, and wouldn't trade them in for anything, but I can't imagine having gay parents - male or female - would have messed me up in any way. What sort of trouble do you imagine?

weeperofsouls · Post by **weeperofsouls** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:27 pm

it just goes back to the old stereotype that all gays are weirdo sicko sex fiends or something. mostly held by rednecks, christian zealots and the intolerant.

Pyrosurfer · Post by **Pyrosurfer** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:52 pm

Here's my theory/belief about the universe, similar to OneThirty8's. Time has always existed, it would be impossible for there to be a beginning. The universe was never "created" but this current cycle of the universe started at the big bang. I believe if you went in a super fast ship that went in a exactly straight line(theoretically speaking, in practice this could never be accomplished), you would end up where you started(like in the game asteroids). So if matter is traveling outward from the big bang, eventually it will reach a point where a lot of the matter is getting closer together. This would probably cause another big bang in a different center than the past big bang. The cycle would continue on and on... I'm not saying this is what happens, just my opinion.

Lartrak · Post by **Lartrak** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:47 pm

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I've read through a lot of it. Some of it is well thought out and interesting, but there are some things that it bashes that are fairly easily explained - like one part that the site claims refers to a flat earth takes place in a DREAM. Worth looking at, though. It is also sometimes too literal, though I sense they do this on purpouse in response to people who literally believe in every word of the bible.

BTW, the story you're referring to is that of Lot, whose two daughters raped him. They became pregant, and their descendants became two seperate tribes of Israel.

FETUS · Post by **FETUS** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:04 pm

oh my god this thread has gone in a weird direction

Skynet · Post by **Skynet** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:54 am

BTW, the story you're referring to is that of Lot, whose two daughters raped him. They became pregant, and their descendants became two seperate tribes of Israel.

Post by **Quzar** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:50 am

Cn'Fused wrote:http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I'm not trying to bash anyone with this link by the way, I thought it would be interesting for all people to look at it and think about it. It makes me think whether we should take everything within the Bible literally. There was a reference I once read where some guy's daughters slept with him so they could pass his seed along or something, but obviously incest isn't something accepted.

I can't remember the Bible section which condemns homosexuality, but I'm absolutely certain there will be some problem with the wording of the text, or the fact that it contradicts with something else, blah blah farkedy blah. So have a look if you like...

Incest and murder is rampant in the Old testament. One of the best examples is the question of where Cain's wife came from. Cain was the son of Adam and Eve and was banished to the land of nod (iirc) when there he got married, but to who? At this time the only humans in existance were Adam, Eve, and their children. Solution: Cain marries one of his sisters.

Orange_Ribbon · Post by **Orange_Ribbon** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:40 am

Actually Quazar there was Lilith. Lilith left Eden on her own accord cause she didn't want to put up with Adam. She was basically the first Feminist. Well she did end up getting punnished and was mother to demons. All her spawn did last to long though as they died really quickly.

Mrfiddlez · Post by **Mrfiddlez** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:04 am

1.

scott6565 wrote: they have this snotty fudging "im gay, deal with it" attitude

Probably Because of people Like you, or this is just a stereo-type reaction caused by homosexual tv personality's?
2.

They think being gay is so cool and cutting edge, "look at me im gay but im ok with that", good work asshole we dont f*ckign care, being a cigarette doesnt make you anymore of a person your still loser.

Have you met every Homosexual in the world, studied them, then come to the conclusion that theyre try-hards? I doubt
3.

The only people who piss me off more than gay people are people who be friends with gay people for stupid reasons, they tend to have this attitude: "hey look at me i can handle having a gay friend, that means im way cooler and intelectually ahead of all of you"

Do i have this attitude? im sure many other people on this forum don't and yet they hame homosexual friends, Maybe ur just getting confused, these people are probably just defending their friends, u might possibly have a perception problem.
4.

Anyways... There is somthing about homosexuality that is just wrong, i think its probly some kind of brain sickness or somthing.

How can it be Brain Sickness? IT IS NATURAL, How can we have homosexual's in this world if it isn't natural? It is Human Behavior, Human Behavior is Natural.
5.

i almost forgot about the topic... let them get married, but DO NOT let them adopt kids thats just trouble

You Truly are fucked in the head to deny a homosexual a child, merely for who they are, let me tell you something, i dont know how to explain this properly, but i will try, I have grown up in a Hetoral-Sexual enviroment - by this, i mean, my relative family are hetoralsexual, when i was around 4, my family was shocked, a man, around 20yrs old had come up to my grandpa and said You are my Father - or sumfin like that - my family came to love him, he is now my family, when we got to know him, we found out he was homosexual, he is an influence of my tolerance towards homosexuality, to me, a homosexual is a person - exactly like a hetoral sexual, -{NOTE: I am tired of typing Hetoral/homosexual, so now i am going to refer to them as HTS and HMS}- exactly like an Aboriginal is Exactly the Same as a White Australian. I Also had another Influence on my Life, Michelle & Alison, the Most entertaining and caring people i know, Michelle has 2 kids, M + F, they are both Married and Both Hetoralsexual, their father is a sperm-donor, how can they be different to an adopted child in their upbringing? Ali Has 2 childeren, a 6yo boy and a 11yo girl,
These Kids are as normal as ever, beleive it or not kids, Just because their primary upbringers are HMS, does that not mean they dont get HTR influences in their life- Other family Members? Television? SCHOOL? to my knowledge, Ali's kids have not been Discriminated/Outcasted or Tormented in anyway because of their parents.

James

Hopefully, i havent Missed any holes in this post.
James

Pyrosurfer · Post by **Pyrosurfer** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:19 am

I don't know but know about where you live, but around here if you had gay parents you would be discriminated left and right. If you had lesbian parents some guys might be like "Dude did you hear _______'s parents are lesbians, lesbians are fucking hot" (everyone seems to think this nowadays) so you wouldn't really be made fun of much. If you were a boy with 2 gay fathers then you would have many people (mostly male) discrimating against you.

scott6565 · Post by **scott6565** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:30 pm

Mrfiddlez wrote: Have you met every Homosexual in the world, studied them, then come to the conclusion that theyre try-hards? I doubt

ill give you that one, I admit i based that part more or less on celeb bahaviour since i live in a relativly straight area...

Mrfiddlez wrote: Do i have this attitude? im sure many other people on this forum don't and yet they hame homosexual friends, Maybe ur just getting confused, these people are probably just defending their friends, u might possibly have a perception problem.

Hahaha sorry pal im pretty sure i dont have a perception problem, but judgeing by the people in this toppic i wouldnt expect you to notice whats going on

Mrfiddlez wrote: How can it be Brain Sickness? IT IS NATURAL, How can we have homosexual's in this world if it isn't natural? It is Human Behavior, Human Behavior is Natural.

Well down syndrom is natural too, i guess you could call it a natural birth defect then. I didnt mean sickness as in a virus or somthing that you catch i meant liek a condition. And by the way... i guess you might get away with callign it natural, but nature messes up once in a while ya know. If its so natural and normal why isnt everyone gay? heres an idea, lets commit our lives to homo sexuality and see how long the human race lasts! haha you wanna know know whats natural? A man and a WOMAN together, someone said it before "it was adam and eve not adam and steve" that quote seriously says it all. Saying that homosexuallity is natural because peopel are born liek that, is like saying down syndrom is natural and healthy because people are born with it.

about the gay adoption thing, the guy right above me hit the nail right on the head. Having 2 dads could mess up the most stable kid, is destroying someones life worth having your little gay adoption crusade? maybe you guys should start a gay march about it... i can see the argument right now, "give us a child so we can make him a social outcast! gay people have rights too you know!"

Master Higgins · Post by **Master Higgins** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:34 pm

Ol Babylon (modern Iraq) had a mostly bisexual population as did Persia (Iran) who claimed supposedly half bisexual population, nowadays it is illegal there and people are quite fearful of homosexuality. The perception of gayness, sexuality in general is purely societal and I believe some cases genetic, to say that gayness is just some kind of strange abomination created by apostates, and heretics of whatever religion you claim who have been fed with first world decadence is just baseless, as homosexuality was uber-prevalent, maybe more prevalent than ever at the origin of western civilization, that being Greece and Rome, as well as being found in ancient Japan, in almost identically as Greece, with Sempai/Kohai and Master/Apprentice relationship being the main vessel of homosexuality. As for femininty going along with homosexuality, I don't know where that came from, as most homosexuals don't act effeminate although the ones that always get noticed are the ones that act effeminate which puts a major label on all of them as being that way. In homosexual sub-cultures like those of the soldiers of sparta and the samurai of Japan, femininity was high looked down upon. However, I guess the main difference,that one would be hardpressed not to point out about modern homosexuality versus classical homosexuality, is that in classical times it was not an exclusive and alternate lifestyle, gay/bisexual men had life partners in women and would intermingle with younger men whom they usually were teaching, you didn't have marriage between the two, you had a relationship of companionship, sempai/kohai and butt-banging lol.

scott6565 · Post by **scott6565** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:38 pm

DOWN SYNDROM RIGHTS!!!

ive decided that down syndrom is a natural thing! Its ok to have down syndrom, so i think people who have it should be able to adopt children to hold down normal jobs, and to drive cars all because down syndrom is natural. People with down syndrom are "exactly like" normal people. People have an attitude about down syndrom "Probably Because of people Like you, or this is just a stereo-type reaction caused by downsyndrom tv personality's?". "How can it be Brain Sickness? IT IS NATURAL, How can we have down syndrom in this world if it isn't natural? It is Human Behavior, Human Behavior is Natural"

Tomorrow morning im leading a down syndrom march! whos with me!

Master Higgins · Post by **Master Higgins** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:45 pm

scott6565 wrote:DOWN SYNDROM RIGHTS!!!

ive decided that down syndrom is a natural thing! Its ok to have down syndrom, so i think people who have it should be able to adopt children to hold down normal jobs, and to drive cars all because down syndrom is natural. People with down syndrom are "exactly like" normal people. People have an attitude about down syndrom "Probably Because of people Like you, or this is just a stereo-type reaction caused by downsyndrom tv personality's?". "How can it be Brain Sickness? IT IS NATURAL, How can we have down syndrom in this world if it isn't natural? It is Human Behavior, Human Behavior is Natural"

Tomorrow morning im leading a down syndrom march! whos with me!

Ya I am sure you will fit right in a crowd of retards