Katana SDK Leaked!

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:25 pm

Apparently, someone named NuAngel has chosen to leak the official Katana SDK for Dreamcast. He says "I'm not out to do it for fame, or to get under a companie's skin... it's all for the hopes of progress". Needless to say, I'm downloading it and you can get it as well here:

http://www.nuangel.net/

There are definitely legal issues associated with this but, man, I want to see how the official dev kit can compare to KOS AND see if it can help out Super Famicast or NesterDC SE in any way.

Actually, NuAngel made this available publicly April 6th. I did a search through the forums here and no one has noticed it yet. I dunno but this is big to me.

q_006 · Post by **q_006** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:28 pm

hasn't it been leaked before?

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:31 pm

Damn, I guess you guys have already gone through this because that domain name is being filtered out of my post! Geez, talk about completely anti-warez. I understand though. Don't hate on me. I'm kind of Makavelian when it comes to programming. I love KOS and all but I must try Katana for myself. I tried the WinCE SDK for DC but it's performance is weak compared to KOS.

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:32 pm

q_006 wrote:hasn't it been leaked before?

Maybe but this is the first time I've been able to get my hands on it.

ETR · Post by **ETR** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:33 pm

in before lock!

speud · Post by **speud** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:39 pm

i think using katana for nesterDC or sfcast would ruin all the previous legit work on them, that would be a real waste.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:44 pm

scherzo wrote:Damn, I guess you guys have already gone through this because that domain name is being filtered out of my post! Geez, talk about completely anti-warez. I understand though. Don't hate on me. I'm kind of Makavelian when it comes to programming. I love KOS and all but I must try Katana for myself. I tried the WinCE SDK for DC but it's performance is weak compared to KOS.

WinCE is weak ? Hmm What tested did you do with it. It out did kos on all the exmaples i tryed.

Some of us bought the kit ive had it for yonks And really does not matter you cant use it for public work. Leaked version is a lot worst.

With you saying your going to use it to taint Legit open source software thats just not a good move.

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:52 pm

Legit work? I think there's nothing wrong with using something like Katana. I mean, there's no possible way I can legally obtain a real copy of it. Dreamcast is nearly dead in the commercial games market. I don't have enough money to become a licensed Dreamcast developer. No matter what anyone says about it, I'm going to try it out. I'm too curious not to.

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:53 pm

I've moved to the dark side, I guess. Therefore I suck.

q_006 · Post by **q_006** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:59 pm

what would be interesting is for you to make two versions?
one with KOS and with Katana. just for developmental purposes.
plus you might learn a thing or two in the long run.
(that way the Force can be balanced

)

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:01 pm

Heh Well SDK is still used nearly dead is not dead. Plus it's not all from sega. Lic is not just from sega and the libs are not all sega owned. Never be legal to release bins made with it. Whole point of kos was to have a legal homebrew scene.

Still i can tell you some peoples claims about wince sdk is not correct it has full hardware rending support using DirectX subset on grafix and 3d examples it blows kos away with out to much trouble..

But i digress.

Lic with katana forbids public downloads of any thing made with it or info used from it

Here it is for you to read you can get it with out breaking the law you can buy a dev kit I asked sega before i bought mine it was fine to use for home use no public info or downloads. Many people have bought one on ebay. But you cant use it for the homebrew scene.

Legal.txt

Your employer has signed an agreement with Sega Enterprises,
Ltd. ("Sega"), which contains certain restrictions on the use and
disclosure of the contents of this software. The important points in
that agreement are as follows:

1. The development hardware, software and accompanying documentation
("Products") which have been supplied are proprietary to Sega and
are considered confidential information ("Confidential
Information"). Disclosing, distributing, reproducing, duplicating,
dissembling, decompiling, peeling, reverse engineering, copying or
utilizing these Products in any way, in whole or in part, outside
the restrictions contained in the agreement is not permitted.
Developing, manufacturing, producing and/or distributing any
software, hardware or any other product derived from or developed
with reference to, or which in any way incorporates, any of the
Confidential Information outside the restrictions set for the
agreement is also not permitted.
2. Sega and affiliates grant no license or other right, by implication
or otherwise, by allowing use of these Products or knowledge of the
Confidential Information.

3. These Products may contain technical inaccuracies and/or
typographical errors. Sega may make modifications to the Products
at any time.

4. Sega is not responsible for any damage that may result from the use
of these Products.

Please observe these restrictions. Failure to comply with the
provisions of the agreement could result in Sega's seeking damages
against you and your employer.

It's fine to use it for homeuse and learning but nothing you learn can be used. We dont want to endup like the XBOX SCENE

speud · Post by **speud** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:02 pm

Legit work?

i was refering to the work made on nesterDC and superfamicast using legal tools.
i can understand you changed your mind about kos, i can also understand you dont care about making superfamicast illegal.
but i think you should think about it again before using official dev kits on an open source project that was started by other devvers using legal tools.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:11 pm

He will find that katana is much harder to use. with out any forum help on how to use it and examples on it's use i doubt it will be to much of a help to any one. There's no forum i know of giving help to How to use audio64 driver in katana or Kamui2.

All you will have is a few example. It uses the same compiler as were using. We have most of the same support.

Vorrtexx · Post by **Vorrtexx** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:18 pm

Ian Micheal wrote:He will find that katana is much harder to use. with out any forum help on how to use it and examples on it's use i doubt it will be to much of a help to any one. There's no forum i know of giving help to How to use audio64 driver in katana or Kamui2.

All you will have is a few example. It uses the same compiler as were using. We have most of the same support.

Ian is right saying this. There is no support for Katana and you will not receive help for it in any forum either. Whatever docs come with it, if any, is probably all you'll have to go on. And the SDK was leaked back in 2000 if I remember correctly.

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:03 pm

Alright, I'll play with it some but I promise I won't make any releases of anything that I produce with it. I'll keep the scene taint-free. NesterDC SE and Super Famicast will still be developed with KOS.

SinisterTengu · Post by **SinisterTengu** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:10 pm

I'm a little surprised to see that people are only just finding out about it being leaked. I know that R9 has been leaked for at least six months if not much longer, and also R10 has been out for at least three months that I've seen in on DC++, but again, it could be much longer. From what I've looked at it, its not terribly interesting. I was hoping to get some good information about the rumble pack out of it, but its turned out to be totally useless for that. The .h files don't have a lot of info, and the rest is precompiled. It is interesting how much the way things work differ from KOS though. Personally, it looked like KOS was a bit more user friendly..

Strapping Scherzo · Post by **Strapping Scherzo** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:02 pm

Alright, I installed it, looked at some samples, and decided that I'm too used to KOS to go through the trouble of learning the ins and outs of Katana anyways. I'm going to work on other stuff now. Sorry to even bring this up.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:14 pm

Still i can tell you some peoples claims about wince sdk is not correct it has full hardware rending support using DirectX subset on grafix and 3d examples it blows kos away with out to much trouble..

That's because we don't have any 3D examples. The throughput from KOS is slower than Katana, because we're only using store queues at the moment, and we should be using DMA as well, but it's still pretty fast. And there's only one or two features of the hardware we can't use.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:59 pm

I like Kos better if i had the choice of using the 2 i use kos.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:32 am

I think we could probably do with some decent 3D examples though. It's not particularly obvious how you're supposed to do anything with it, and the examples included are mostly benchmarks.