X-Box Live Discontinued

Talk about anything and everything not related to this site or the Dreamcast, such as news stories, political discussion, or anything else. If there's not a forum for it, it belongs in here. Also, be warned that personal insults, threats, and spamming will not be tolerated.
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:38 pm

MKE wrote:hey Dr Wily, apperently you dont like your xbox, do you want to sell it? or is it just the xbox live service you dont like.
I believe Live is an absolutely horribly cynical move by MS to re-invent online gaming, and I sincerely hope it dies a slow, painful, and expensive death to as to prevent any other company trying anything like it in the future.

There is *absolutely* nothing wrong with the current online business models of; 'Pay for media, online is free' or 'free game, subscription costs'.

I cannot believe anybody would fork out ?40 for a game AND then pay subscription costs on top of that without even getting a SINGLE high speed game server in return.

I'm not particularly enamoured with my Xbox, but I'm keeping it on the offchance Fable is as good as it looks like it might be.
Or Sega decide to release some games for it in the future that aren't Sega GT.
Or some actual legal homebrew dev happens that isnt a Linux build. (sigh).
MKE wrote: yes, ut2k3 was better than us if you spent 100-1500 on a decent computer to run it on.
I don't think an Athlon 850 with 128MB RAM and a TNT2Pro graphics card is *particularly* decent when it comes to PC gaming, yet it ran UT2K3 at 640x480 res just fine - thats the same res as your television displays so fairly comparable to the Xbox version...

UC was probably a particularly bad example to pick, as it is frankly a rubbish conversion which had major framerate issues on release - they had to *patch* it FFS! That's something MS swore would never happen thanks to their stringent quality control!
Image
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:43 pm

Dr Wily wrote:UC was probably a particularly bad example to pick, as it is frankly a rubbish conversion which had major framerate issues on release - they had to *patch* it FFS! That's something MS swore would never happen thanks to their stringent quality control!
And you had to pay for Xbox Live to be able to download said patch :x.
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
User avatar
Wagh
Wagh
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:59 pm
Location: YSOH
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Wagh » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:11 pm

Dr Wily wrote: I cannot believe anybody would fork out ?40 for a game AND then pay subscription costs on top of that without even getting a SINGLE high speed game server in return.
where have you been the past couple of years... thats taken over everything in the market.. welcome to what the rest of the modern world calls "MMORPGS"
Bush and Hussein together in bed
Giving H-E-A-D head
Y'all motherfuckers heard what we said
Billions made and millions dead
antidot
DCEmu Freak
DCEmu Freak
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by antidot » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:16 pm

Wait...since when was SegaNet free? And if so, why did they ask me for money?
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:42 pm

Random_Troll wrote:
Dr Wily wrote: I cannot believe anybody would fork out ?40 for a game AND then pay subscription costs on top of that without even getting a SINGLE high speed game server in return.
where have you been the past couple of years... thats taken over everything in the market.. welcome to what the rest of the modern world calls "MMORPGS"
Name me a single MMORPG that charges subscription fees AND makes you buy client software but does not provide servers.
EDIT: obviosuly, for the purposes of your point being valid the upcoming Live MMORPGS don't count.
I can easily name you a number of MMORPGS with free downloadable clients that require subscription fees *only* to play.
antidot wrote:Wait...since when was SegaNet free? And if so, why did they ask me for money?
Who in the hell mentioned SegaNet?
Image
User avatar
Wagh
Wagh
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:59 pm
Location: YSOH
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Wagh » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:47 pm

Dr Wily wrote:
Random_Troll wrote:
Dr Wily wrote: I cannot believe anybody would fork out ?40 for a game AND then pay subscription costs on top of that without even getting a SINGLE high speed game server in return.
where have you been the past couple of years... thats taken over everything in the market.. welcome to what the rest of the modern world calls "MMORPGS"
Name me a single MMORPG that charges subscription fees AND makes you buy client software but does not provide servers.
EDIT: obviosuly, for the purposes of your point being valid the upcoming Live MMORPGS don't count.
I can easily name you a number of MMORPGS with free downloadable clients that require subscription fees *only* to play.
:| and what does this have to do with anything what so ever.
Bush and Hussein together in bed
Giving H-E-A-D head
Y'all motherfuckers heard what we said
Billions made and millions dead
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:07 pm

Why don't you read the statement I posted and your response to it again and see?

:roll:
Image
User avatar
Wagh
Wagh
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:59 pm
Location: YSOH
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Wagh » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:12 pm

Dr Wily wrote:Why don't you read the statement I posted and your response to it again and see?

:roll:
hrm. Xbox live gives you servers..... hmmmmmmmmmmmm..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Guess you missed that. Maybe it was your "intense" hatred for the thing. Or what the rest of us call stupidity. You preach all kinds of xbox disinformation then bitch about console war topics :| :?
Bush and Hussein together in bed
Giving H-E-A-D head
Y'all motherfuckers heard what we said
Billions made and millions dead
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:23 pm

1) own yourself by quoting something said and not understanding it

2) try to hide the fact you just owned yourself by talking of 'disinformation' and 'stupidity'

3) own yourself again by not realising Live is P2P not centrally hosted - thats why you 'host' a game, and why you get varying pings connecting to different games, beciuse you are in fact connecting to someone elses Xbox, not a game server. Guess *you* missed *that*.

4) Own yourself again by making some kind of statement about me 'preaching about console war topics' when a simple use of good old
Image Search
proves you to be a victim of your own "intense" hatred for me. Or what the rest of us call stupidity.
Image
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:00 pm

Dr Wily wrote:Who in the hell mentioned SegaNet?
You did :?.
You wrote:However, Sega when they did online games did so by providing their own ISP, so that when you *purchased* a game, if you wished to play online you used *their* ISP which was free, so you DIDN'T have any further ISP costs associated with playing the game online - let alone a frigging SUBSCRIPTION for jack poop.
Sega's own ISP was SegaNet, wasn't it, at least in the US?
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:29 pm

az_bont wrote: Sega's own ISP was SegaNet, wasn't it, at least in the US?
I'm not in the US...
Segas ISP was a pay via local phonecall affair like Freeserve etc etc etc
Image
antidot
DCEmu Freak
DCEmu Freak
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by antidot » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:10 pm

That sounds like you pay. Either way, it's up to the consumer what you want to pay for. I consider XBL worth it. I also played and greatly enjoyed DC games online, q3a, pso, and AFO were great games. On another note, a few months ago, star lancer still palyed online because it used Gamespy servers, is this still true today?
User avatar
|darc|
DCEmu Webmaster
DCEmu Webmaster
Posts: 16215
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has liked: 31 times
Been liked: 15 times
Contact:

Post by |darc| » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:18 pm

Dr Wily wrote:
|darc| wrote:
Dr Wily wrote:Plus ISP fees.
Don't forget the basic needs. You need food, clothing, and shelter to survive. You can't play Xbox Live if you aren't alive, can you? Food can amount to quite a few dollars a day. And what about your electric bill? Cost to own a television? That's a lot of money a year to play online, even if you do get away without clothing or shelter.
Yes, I read penny-arcade too.

However, Sega when they did online games did so by providing their own ISP, so that when you *purchased* a game, if you wished to play online you used *their* ISP which was free, so you DIDN'T have any further ISP costs associated with playing the game online - let alone a frigging SUBSCRIPTION for jack poop.

Or are you seriously trying to suggest MS are incapable of providing a free ISP to Live subscribers?
While I am a fan of Penny-Arcade, I don't read it regularly, and I am not familiar with the specific comic that my post is similar to.

My point was, an ISP is pretty much something that you are assumed to have to play online, like electricity, and the ability to survive.

I don't know about other countries, but the SegaNet ISP was *never* free in the United States. They had some nice deals and SegaNet+Dreamcast bundles, but it was never free as long as you had a Dreamcast. You could always use your own ISP (except special protocol based ISPs like AOL) but SegaNet was optional and "recommended".
It's thinking...
sixteen-bit
Hardware Freak
Hardware Freak
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2001 3:45 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by sixteen-bit » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:33 pm

|darc| wrote: I don't know about other countries, but the SegaNet ISP was *never* free in the United States. They had some nice deals and SegaNet+Dreamcast bundles, but it was never free as long as you had a Dreamcast. You could always use your own ISP (except special protocol based ISPs like AOL) but SegaNet was optional and "recommended".
The SEGA ISP didn't charge the end user* as such but the telco shafted us with 1p /min calls to get online with the DC ( that's ~ USD 1.00 per hour )

*so, they may take a small cut from the call charge like freeserve but you pay the same rate for an 0845 call anyway...
User avatar
Wagh
Wagh
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:59 pm
Location: YSOH
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Wagh » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:30 pm

Dr Wily wrote:1) own yourself by quoting something said and not understanding it

2) try to hide the fact you just owned yourself by talking of 'disinformation' and 'stupidity'.
hmm yeah sure man.
Dr Wily wrote: 3) own yourself again by not realising Live is P2P not centrally hosted - thats why you 'host' a game, and why you get varying pings connecting to different games, beciuse you are in fact connecting to someone elses Xbox, not a game server. Guess *you* missed *that*..
No, There still is a centralized server oh and wheres all these games that rack up prices independtly? I'm only seeing one. Maybe limeys can see more.
Dr Wily wrote: 4) Own yourself again by making some kind of statement about me 'preaching about console war topics' when a simple use of good old
Image Search
proves you to be a victim of your own "intense" hatred for me. Or what the rest of us call stupidity.
I never said I wasn't in console war topics they're fun to fool newbs with. Atleast they are till you come along and say we're all wrong like in this topic.
Bush and Hussein together in bed
Giving H-E-A-D head
Y'all motherfuckers heard what we said
Billions made and millions dead
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:22 am

Random_Troll wrote: I never said I wasn't in console war topics they're fun to fool newbs with. Atleast they are till you come along and say we're all wrong like in this topic.
You mean till someone comes along and shows you to be blowing hot air out your crack :lol:

There aren't any *GAME* servers for any *GAMES* on Live. There is a login server that deals with accounts, and, uh *thats it*.

Game servers = expensive, heavy bandwidth.

Login server = a 386 with Linux installed.

All of Segas online games used game servers, which ensured a *fair* game for everybody, and didn't charge anyone subscription fees to use them with the exception of PSO.

All od Live's online games DON'T use game servers but DO charge you a subscription to play the games. And of course the host of an y game gets the 'home field' advantage ping wise.

See the difference? I know this topics very hard for poor ickle troll to understand properly with all the big words and technical language going on...
Image
User avatar
Wagh
Wagh
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:59 pm
Location: YSOH
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Wagh » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:28 am

yes I understand how game servers work boy. Oh and I love it when you don't reply to stuff where you got owned -_-
Bush and Hussein together in bed
Giving H-E-A-D head
Y'all motherfuckers heard what we said
Billions made and millions dead
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 1:37 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:52 am

For someone who 'sure understands how game servers work' you've done an incredibly accurate job of feigning ignorance in this topic.

Whats not replied?

How UK ISPs work when sixteen-bit already explained it?

What games you have to pay for the cost of the game AND THEN Live subscription fees for to play online? Go to a store and look around

If StarLancer is playable online still, because I don't know?

Why you're such a jackass? I don't know that one either...
Image
EvilSporkMan
God Of All Things Sporkish
God Of All Things Sporkish
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 1:04 pm
Location: Somewhere over the cuckoo's nest
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by EvilSporkMan » Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:06 am

If I may...

The Xbox Live starter kits (old ones, at least) have an expiration date on them somewhere, but I think that date was July this year (based on a vague memory from a post on the xbox.com forums shortly after the beta was over). This was to prevent hoarding of the kits and using them for continued membership (albeit with changed GamerTag, etc.) if Microsoft jacked the Xbox Live price up.

The new $70 starter kits include the mic, full version of MechAssault, and 12-month subscription. You can just get service sans mic for $50 now from the store, and renewal of service is $50/yr or $6/mo. See here: http://xbox.com/en-US/live/about/subscr ... offers.htm

EDIT: those prices are US...In England/U.K./Britain a starter kit is now 40 pounds, but they don't have the nice handy price breakdown like they do for the U.S.

Nyar, shame on you. Just smite the bastard next time :P
You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard.
User avatar
Wagh
Wagh
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:59 pm
Location: YSOH
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Wagh » Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:48 pm

Dr Wily wrote:What games you have to pay for the cost of the game AND THEN Live subscription fees for to play online? Go to a store and look around.
You were btiching about live fees + games having their own fees online. As far as i can tell there's only 1 and its pso where you could go else where. so why bitch? er thats right.. thats what you like to do...
Dr Wily wrote:Why you're such a jackass? I don't know that one either...
ooh clever :roll:
Bush and Hussein together in bed
Giving H-E-A-D head
Y'all motherfuckers heard what we said
Billions made and millions dead
Post Reply