Full speed isn't possible, face it, it's not the DreamSNES

Celauve · Post by **Celauve** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:15 am

Full speed? Possible? Oh god, that's funny. It's far too optimistic to think it could be done on a machien slower than the even the PC power needed for it. You'd need a programmer that's more skilled than either the SNES9x team, or the ZSNES team. They can't even make their emus work ful speed on a PC of the same calibur. It could be made to a tolerable speed though, but unless the games were all made specifically for the DC itself, I don't think it's possible, without a lot of sacrifices, to get it to go full speed. Still great emu though, and with frameskip, and lower sound quality, perhaps the games can run at a tolerable rate. Sure, people say it can be done, but look at all the time that's gone by, and still not happening. Nobody's been able to do it. Even the NES, it's come very close to full speed on a lot of games on the DC, but still not quite there, and that's after having more than one group work on it. I do really look forward though to the day when it runs like the SNES9x does on a 200mhz PC. It's not quite that fast yet, but when it reaches there, I'd say it's reached it's peak. Behold, this thread will be locked, I know it will. Or deleted, or someone will trace my connection, and hunt me down or something liek that. People need to stop complaining about the Emu's speed, it's pretty damn fast considering how nobody's been capable of making simular emus fulls peed either.

Celauve · Post by **Celauve** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:18 am

Now, I know now I'm gonna get a lot of flamming. I AM NOT ASKING WHEN IT'S GOING TO FREAKING SPEED UP!!! I'm just saying, that it's unrealistic to expect it to without the work of a pure genius. Now, if any of you want to killme after this post, I'm sure those of you that know how can just trace me...

farrell2k · Post by **farrell2k** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:45 am

Opinion noted....

law56ker · Post by **law56ker** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:27 am

How much experience do you have coding games or emus for the dreamcast?

The Kron · Post by **The Kron** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:27 am

There is a huge difference between the DC's 200mhz SH4 and a standard 200mhz pentium pc architecture running windows, The DC should have more than enough to emulate the system but like you say it would take some well directed code and coder to accomplish it.

Pyrosurfer · Post by **Pyrosurfer** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:43 am

If the dc can emulate playstation at full speed than surely it can do snes.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:02 am

Of course it can but that was a pay project this is free and is using a pc emulator as its base code bleemcast was fully from the ground up written for the dreamcast. in time with a lot of effort and short cut taking it will get there.

Moocow007 · Post by **Moocow007** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:02 am

When you say they arent even being emulated at full speed on a comp, thats wrong. I know its impossible for the dreamSNES to be full speed, but computers can handle the roms easily.

The Kron · Post by **The Kron** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:36 pm

Moocow007 wrote:When you say they arent even being emulated at full speed on a comp, thats wrong. I know its impossible for the dreamSNES to be full speed, but computers can handle the roms easily.

After the rom is loaded into the DC's ram its not even in the equation, After that its all about the emulator, And please share how you so vigorously know its impossible for any future DreamSnes or Snes emu to run games at full speed!

bizzle · Post by **bizzle** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:45 pm

From what I understand, rewriting the video and audio emulation in DreamSNES in SH4 ASM will increase the speed a lot. Right now, the only part in SH4 ASM is the cpu core, iirc.

Nico0020 · Post by **Nico0020** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:05 pm

Full speed? Possible? Oh god, that's funny. It's far too optimistic to think it could be done on a machien slower than the even the PC power needed for it. You'd need a programmer that's more skilled than either the SNES9x team, or the ZSNES team. They can't even make their emus work ful speed on a PC of the same calibur. It could be made to a tolerable speed though, but unless the games were all made specifically for the DC itself, I don't think it's possible, without a lot of sacrifices, to get it to go full speed. Still great emu though, and with frameskip, and lower sound quality, perhaps the games can run at a tolerable rate. Sure, people say it can be done, but look at all the time that's gone by, and still not happening. Nobody's been able to do it. Even the NES, it's come very close to full speed on a lot of games on the DC, but still not quite there, and that's after having more than one group work on it. I do really look forward though to the day when it runs like the SNES9x does on a 200mhz PC. It's not quite that fast yet, but when it reaches there, I'd say it's reached it's peak. Behold, this thread will be locked, I know it will. Or deleted, or someone will trace my connection, and hunt me down or something liek that. People need to stop complaining about the Emu's speed, it's pretty damn fast considering how nobody's been capable of making simular emus fulls peed either.

yea i know your a higher rank than me, and have probably been here longer than me too. but dude come on, dont be a loser. I no nothing of coding really, but I know its not good to say stuff like that. It makes people feel like shit. I understand this is what you believe, but you dont need to share it with the world. some things are better left unsaid, and the DreamSNES team probably doesnt like hearing all these posts. I see to many of these freakin posts!

Wasgo · Post by **Wasgo** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:37 pm

Nico0020 wrote:yea i know your a higher rank than me, and have probably been here longer than me too. but dude come on, dont be a loser. I no nothing of coding really, but I know its not good to say stuff like that. It makes people feel like poop. I understand this is what you believe, but you dont need to share it with the world. some things are better left unsaid, and the DreamSNES team probably doesnt like hearing all these posts. I see to many of these freakin posts!

Did you quote the right person? Celauve has 41 posts and joined June 2003...

Celauve · Post by **Celauve** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:58 pm

As I said, you all want to kill me now. I'm just basically waiting for bugs, and compatibility to go up. Not really speed. I just want Seiken detsetsu 3 to run without flashes that hurt my eyes when text boxes come up, or to have Panic Bomber run at all. When I said that it isn't running full speed on PC, I was referring to a PC of about the same speed as the Dreamcast. Plus I was tired of a lot of people complaining about it being slow, so I figured this might shut them up, especially if they realised how next to impossible it might be to get what they wanted. It'd be so cool also to emulate the superscope using a lightgun or something like that. There's so many other things aside from speed that could be worked on at the moment. Not really handling Star Ocean, or Far East From Eden Zero, because I know the DC doesn't have enough memory to handle their graphics packs. I'll just be happy if it can handle playing most of the games. I love the Super Bomberman games on it though. They run at just the right speed, and the graphics don't glitch up. I'll say it again, THIS ISN'T A POST ASKING FOR MORE SPEED! It's just a post to get the people wanting more speed to shut up, and give up asking about it. I do program, but it's for the PC, and it's using Visual Basic 6 to make simple RPGs. I'm still in college, and I'm hoping to get good enough to work on emulators at some point. I played SNES9x awhile back without sound on a 4/86 CPU machine, those people that complain about speed, try that, the speed it's at now is a godsend. By the way, I'm sorry if I sounded uneducated, or offended anybody. I really didn't mean to insult the team working on it at all. Who knows, maybe the reason nobody's heard from them is because they all got girlfriends, or just forgot or something. I wouldn't blame them though, especially if their in college.

ssj4goku128 · Post by **ssj4goku128** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:46 pm

Actually it can outperform a P2 800 Mhz[overclocked] with all other specs the same.

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:38 pm

Xylene wrote:From what I understand, rewriting the video and audio emulation in DreamSNES in SH4 ASM will increase the speed a lot. Right now, the only part in SH4 ASM is the cpu core, iirc.

TEH BINGO!111

As for the 200Mhz SH4 outperforming a nonexistant PII 800 Mhz (that's a pretty lofty overclock, dude, but I assume you mean theoretical), it depends. For certain things, like double precision floating point, I can see that happening. But for emulation, I can't think of any examples, unless you're emulating like an SH4-based handheld or something.

OT: Actually, that reminds me, the same companies that made the DC's components now have parts that are very low voltage that could perform almost as well. So technically speaking, a major company could build a Dreamcast-like handheld... but if it happens, it'd most likely be a PDA. Cell phones are also probably going to be getting cut down PVR MBX (lite) chips in the next year or so.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:38 am

Erm... I certainly don't think that DreamSNES has hit it's maximum possible speed yet, nor is it likely to for a while. If a DC can emulate a PSX at full speed, it can likely do a SNES as well.

I think they can get it faster than it already is. I don't know how much faster. I think it could probably manage full speed (possibly with frameskip - I don't know) on most games. Eventually.

JaSpAlLeR · Post by **JaSpAlLeR** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:18 pm

Pyrosurfer wrote

If the dc can emulate playstation at full speed than surely it can do snes

are you talking about Bleemcast? wasn't Bleemcast just for one game? fixed buttons and emulate just one part of the playstation or something... or just emulate part of it? emulating every game is harder than just one....

someone should do some SGA type things for Dreamsnes until we see a new release of it

bizzle · Post by **bizzle** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:26 pm

I believe it can get fullspeed if parts of the emulation are rewritten. I am not a programmer, so I am just saying what I've picked up from reading stuff around here. So far the only part written in SH4 ASM is the main CPU emulation, I think. The rest is all C, again, I think, so don't quote me on that. I've read that if the video emulation, and sound was rewritten in SH4 ASM there would be great speed increases.. and would possibly make it all fullspeed.

Now, the reason Bleem!cast was so perfect is becuase it was all written in SH4 ASM.

About Doing SGA type things for DreamSNES, don't count on it.

Firthy2002 · Post by **Firthy2002** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:51 pm

DreamSNES could be full speed, but it could take a while because the SNES has complex architecture.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:36 pm

u cant compare a 32 bits processor (x86) with a 128 bit (sh4) processor, also the dc dont have a os running so the ram is not used as a win based pc, the main problem is that the snes9x core was maded to run in the x86 architecture not a sh4, also i think the snes 9x core isnt optimized to run as fast as zsnes (asm) so isnt the core or the machine the problem is to find a way to program in a dc more compatible way, and yes if rand made bleemcast and it run so great snes can be possible , the only diference is that psx run a cd based system like dc.