Windows Media Audio

Captain Tokyo · Post by **Captain Tokyo** » Wed May 14, 2003 9:56 pm

Is this actually legal to use in a DC homebrew movie player?
I remember asking the guys at Project Mayo if DC-DivX would ever support WMA and they basically laughed, saying "not a chance" as it would be illegal. I believe there was a recent post there to the same effect.

dbloom · Post by **dbloom** » Wed May 14, 2003 10:05 pm

It's legal until you get caught.
Don't let me see you doing it.

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:24 am

GypPlay managed to use copyrighted Microsoft stuff without anybody batting an eyelid, but WMA audio support would probably be too hard to impliment. You'd be better off with the open-source OGG format - but then didn't you say you couldn't convert WMA to anything else?

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu May 15, 2003 9:14 am

It has that annoying DRM stuff embedded in it. It's possible to bypass, of course. I've seen guides on the 'net about converting WMA to other formats, like MP3 and OGG, amongst others. But it'll sound worse because it's converting from one lossy compression format to another.

WMA is, in my opinion, vastly inferior to other formats like OGG Vorbis, or even MP3. It just sounds hollow and empty. It sounds like it strips virtually all the harmonics, even the audiable ones, and it doesn't really compress any better than MP3, and certainly doesn't compress any better than Vorbis does.

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Thu May 15, 2003 9:17 am

BlackAura wrote:WMA is, in my opinion, vastly inferior to other formats like OGG Vorbis, or even MP3. It just sounds hollow and empty. It sounds like it strips virtually all the harmonics, even the audiable ones, and it doesn't really compress any better than MP3, and certainly doesn't compress any better than Vorbis does.

Oh, I wouldn't say that - I downloaded some Squaresoft music remixes by The Black Mages in WMAv8/9 96kbps and it sounded just as good as the 192kbps VBR MP3s. Maybe the corporate encoder with 2-pass VBR is better, though.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu May 15, 2003 10:03 am

Possibly. I've never listened to any professionally encoded WMA stuff, only encoding tests that I've done with the encoder that comes with Windows. And it's not that impressive, really.

That was comparing the same songs encoded with Media Player 8 (WMA), LAME (MP3), and the official Vorbis encoder (OGG). And WMA pretty much lost every time, in my opinion. Then again, MP3s aren't that good either. They sound kinda hollow and empty too, just not as much as WMA does.

aced411 · Post by **aced411** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:51 pm

I agree. Windows media sounds like crap compared to .ogg, and at best sounds like a badly encoded mp3. You have to get a high bitrate for a decent sound.

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:55 pm

BUt WMA does have support for 5.1 surround sound, which no other audio format (besides MP2) supports. I imagine it would be quite handy for DVD-rips played through the XBMP, if only as a slightly better-sounding alternative to AC3.

dbloom · Post by **dbloom** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:57 pm

az_bont wrote:5.1 surround sound, which no other audio format (besides MP2) supports.

/me suddenly looks up with bright look on his face, screams "MP2 SUPPORTS 5.1? I LOVE MP2! OMGWTFPGP"

az_bont · Post by **az_bont** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:59 pm

dbloom wrote:
az_bont wrote:5.1 surround sound, which no other audio format (besides MP2) supports.
/me suddenly looks up with bright look on his face, screams "MP2 SUPPORTS 5.1? I LOVE MP2! OMGWTFPGP"

Yes - and in Europe at least, MP2 is the official surround sound format for DVDs, even if it's never used. It is thereotically (sp?) possible to have up to 7.1 channels of audio, and applications already exist that allow 5.1 channels. I had a SVCD copy of LOTR2 that had 5.1 sound spanning 4 discs - very nice

.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:09 pm

So, how come MP2 supports 5.1, and MP3 doesn't? That's just weird.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:13 pm

Isn't MP2 the sound format in VCDs? How come SVCDs support multi-channel audio but VCDs dont?

dbloom · Post by **dbloom** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:22 pm

There simply aren't enough bits in VCD to have room, LOL.
I'm pretty sure that in the VCD standard, sound maxes out at 384kbit/s, which is far to little for surround sound.
Plus, the VCD player hardware simply can't handle it.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:40 pm

Is there a way to convert ac3 5.1 to mp2 5.1? I have a few fansubs I want to convert to SVCD and to keep the 5.1 surround would be nice

.

dbloom · Post by **dbloom** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:45 pm

SVCD can use AC3 iirc, so there's no conversion required.

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:48 pm

Depends on the hardware you're using, but I'm pretty sure that you can put AC3 into an SVCD. At least, you can put it into an MPEG-2 program stream, and you can put it into an SVCD stream too.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:52 pm

I read a few guides on it, and it seemed like too complex for me. I am too lazy to follow all the steps it takes, guess I'll have to settle with normal stereo through pro-logic 2 for now.

Alexvrb · Post by **Alexvrb** » Thu May 15, 2003 9:54 pm

When you say say MP2, that sounds like Mpeg-1 layer 2, like MP3 is Mpeg-1 layer 3. So if you mean mpeg-2 audio, say so. Don't confuse ppl.

PiratePete · Post by **PiratePete** » Thu May 15, 2003 9:57 pm

az_bont wrote:BUt WMA does have support for 5.1 surround sound, which no other audio format (besides MP2) supports. I imagine it would be quite handy for DVD-rips played through the XBMP, if only as a slightly better-sounding alternative to AC3.

Just jumping in to mention that AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) supports 5.1 surround (it IS made by Dolby). Also, in my personal tests, it sounds better than WMA and the same as OGG.

It's also a standard, as opposed to a MS corporate secret.

dbloom · Post by **dbloom** » Thu May 15, 2003 10:12 pm

PiratePete wrote:It's also a standard, as opposed to a MS corporate secret.

But it's a standard with patents, and a standard with patents is worse than no standard at all.
Use MP2 if you need surround sound...it's the 'morally best' format, and has pretty kickin' quality at high bitrates, too.

Windows Media Audio

Windows Media Audio

windows media

MP2

Re: MP2

PATENTS SUCK!