about the politics of piracy

Sylverant is a homebrew open source server for Phantasy Star Online. Dreamcast users still play PSO online with this server even today! This is the official forum for both the online game server as well as the open source project itself. Feel free to post and get a gathering started online! We can also show you how to get connected!

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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by Aleron Ives » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:07 am

One would assume that the more a mechanical piece of hardware is required to move, the sooner it will wear out, and PSOv2 requires an inordinate amount of seeking compared to most Dreamcast games.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by K_I_R_E_E_K » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:51 am

|darc| wrote:The "grinding" sound that many people complain about is just the head moving back and forth. That's not the lens reading, and it shouldn't hurt anything.
That pretty much explains why i never had issues with the lens.
The loadings will be faster and while it's usually to small for anyone to notice or comment, the char loading are sometimes really fast, making crowed lobbies and char loading in menus a breeze.
This feature is present in several isos and is not unique to a specific iso.
While sometimes these isos are sometimes advertised as the fastest, the gain compared to similar ones is probably less than 1%, the speed difference is so small that you can probably blink faster.
Compared with other sorting orders (that are less efficient) or the original game and the difference is visible.

Mods and all these tweaks such as faster char loadings and autoconnects are things that make PSO experiece more diversified, obviously there is an implication but we ignore it because it suits us, i for example despite having used autoconnect disks i still own the original game with the unique snak, afterall sometimes i do need it to clear some quests.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by Neoblast » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:11 pm

Aleron Ives wrote:One would assume that the more a mechanical piece of hardware is required to move, the sooner it will wear out, and PSOv2 requires an inordinate amount of seeking compared to most Dreamcast games.
One dreamcast lens of mine died after a 24 hour non stop pso marathon back in the day...
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by |darc| » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:18 pm

Aleron Ives wrote:One would assume that the more a mechanical piece of hardware is required to move, the sooner it will wear out, and PSOv2 requires an inordinate amount of seeking compared to most Dreamcast games.
Yes, I agree, but I've never encountered a Dreamcast where the motor actually died that way, and I'm sure it would be easy to fix. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's far less common than someone would suspect after hearing how annoying that grinding noise is. Most CD-Rs give the Dreamcast a very difficult time reading from my experience--I have about 6 working Dreamcasts and they all boot GD-ROMs immediately, and pretty much the same for high-quality Taiyo Yuden pro-grade CD-Rs, but regular off-the-shelf CD-Rs from the local store tend to give the Dreamcast a hard time to boot. While I don't think it's dangerous to run CD-Rs on a Dreamcast, I think the performance and wear-and-tear is less with GD-ROMs overall.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by shadowrod » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:46 pm

Anyway I used my gds on past dreamcasts I had and they dont work anymore. You must admit even though I love dreamcast its reading devices are weaker than sega saturn, sony psx and panasonic 3do (even in its generation xbox and gamecube were most reliable) for example, perhaps the only flaw in the system. When I got to use cd backups like Ives pso isos or cd images with dummy files we have less grinding and issues and my dc is healthy for more than 1 year. Other games I play by using dreamshell and they are improving that lately. I want my dc to last many years yet.


From videogamecritics.com
Console durability: D. The system's main downfall may be its reliability. The Dreamcast laser mechanism tends to wear out over time, making it prone to intermittent read problems. As a result, many Dreamcast fans own a second (or third) system as a backup.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by BlueCrab » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:00 pm

I can say that I, personally, have never had a Dreamcast's GD-ROM drive die on me, even with my excessive PSO playing back in the day (although, I never really played PSOv2, as I didn't have any way to pay the monthly fee).

I have had Dreamcasts that I have obtained over the years that have had disc reading issues when I got a hold of them, but I have only ever had one that wouldn't read GD-ROMs (I've had several refuse to read CD-Rs, and no they aren't from the last batch with the patched BIOS that removed CD support).
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by |darc| » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:06 pm

shadowrod wrote:Anyway I used my gds on past dreamcasts I had and they dont work anymore.
I've used CD-Rs on Dreamcasts that don't work anymore. That really doesn't prove anything.

The fact that I have Dreamcasts that will still play GD-ROMS flawlessly but refuse to boot CD-Rs except maybe 1 in 20 times shows that GD-ROMs are easier on the lens. This is trying multiple brands and dye types. Taiyo Yudens are very reliable but not as reliable as GD-ROMs.
shadowrod wrote:You must admit even though I love dreamcast its reading devices are weaker than sega saturn, sony psx and panasonic 3do (even in its generation xbox and gamecube were most reliable) for example, perhaps the only flaw in the system.
Well, it probably is the Dreamcast's biggest flaw, but there are others (maple board fuse blowing and PSU losing connection are probably the other big 2).
shadowrod wrote:When I got to use cd backups like Ives pso isos or cd images with dummy files we have less grinding and issues and my dc is healthy for more than 1 year. Other games I play by using dreamshell and they are improving that lately. I want my dc to last many years yet.
But again, grinding has nothing to do with the laser/lens and reading discs, only the head's motor. On your Dreamcasts, are your motors broken or will the discs not read? If you can hear the motor moving when you turn the DC on then it probably has nothing at all to do with the grinding!
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by Aleron Ives » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:30 pm

|darc| wrote:The fact that I have Dreamcasts that will still play GD-ROMS flawlessly but refuse to boot CD-Rs except maybe 1 in 20 times shows that GD-ROMs are easier on the lens.
It isn't really possible for one disc type to be "easier" on the lens than others, as the lens never wears out. It can get damaged from scratches or other physical harm, but it doesn't degrade over time; the laser does, and getting dimmer over time is a problem with all lasers. A CD-R is ~20% less reflective than a pressed disc, so it would require a stronger laser to bounce any light off of its surface, but that doesn't mean it "wears out" the laser over time any more than a pressed disc would. It just means that your laser needs to be in better shape in order to read one, and as your laser's intensity degrades, the chances of getting unrecoverable read errors increase (leading to more games freezing or resetting).

You can mitigate the problem by adjusting the potentiometer on the laser to increase its intensity, which will also shorten its lifespan (but if it's already having trouble reading discs, you have nothing to lose by adjusting it, since a DC that can't read discs is already pretty much useless, anyway). This also isn't limited to CD-Rs, though. Eventually your laser will get weak enough to no longer read pressed discs, either, so you'll still have to raise the laser's intensity to get your system to function again, even with GD-ROMs.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by shadowrod » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 pm

I didn´t say the problems are connect somehow...the fact is the grinding noise is annoying as hell in some games. I remember I had a pso v1 jap which I used to play online. In a silent night I remember I had a fight with my wife because this grinding noise. In Ives isos the loading character are smoother for example. Perhaps, like you stated, the motor is the real problem.
Another problem I have seen in some dreamcasts are the control ports that work partially or don´t work at all.Mine for example, forces me to plug and unplug the control pad several times untill it works.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by K_I_R_E_E_K » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:20 pm

Well, dc-talk already had issues with the entire PSO server thingy, it was brought up actually by a member i shall not mention (the hat will serve him i suppose) and i assume the explanations displayed here are not far off if compared with the ones that were given to the host at the time, the host didn't do anything so that's a clue as to how legal things are or not.
Dc-talk handled it (which might have been anoying to the person who complained to the host) and i'm sure sylverant will handle it the same way if a similar situation appears.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by legit nyck » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:52 am

all this is very complicated but still I stand by my opinion that BlueCrab this wrong with having a server and do not accept the link of the game that keeps the same :roll:
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by BlueCrab » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:06 am

legit nyck wrote:all this is very complicated but still I stand by my opinion that BlueCrab this wrong with having a server and do not accept the link of the game that keeps the same :roll:
And I stand by my opinion that having a link to the game would be illegal, and I'd rather not taint my name with such a thing. I'd rather not kill any prospects of ever having a career in the field I am studying just to please people who want free games. I'm sorry, but satisfying pirates who are too damn cheap to pay for a game that they supposedly love does not give me any benefit whatsoever -- it only makes me one of them and paints a target on my back when I want to look for a job. Killing any future prospects that I have in the field I love is certainly not worth satisfying pirates.

If you're really going to harp on it, I'll start writing code to make sure no pirated copies can get on the server at all. As soon as I finish with what I'm working on now, I'll get right on doing that.

Actually, the first thing to go, I'll go ahead and do now. The tool for generating serial numbers and access keys for PSO for PC has been removed from the website. All future uses of serial numbers and access keys that are not included with a physical copy of the game are henceforth banned.

I know fully that doing so will kill PSO for PC. That's fine by me at this point. If it proves the point that I don't want anything to do with piracy, then so be it. I hope you enjoy what you have forced me to do. :roll:
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by legit nyck » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:19 am

BlueCrab wrote:
legit nyck wrote:all this is very complicated but still I stand by my opinion that BlueCrab this wrong with having a server and do not accept the link of the game that keeps the same :roll:
And I stand by my opinion that having a link to the game would be illegal, and I'd rather not taint my name with such a thing. I'd rather not kill any prospects of ever having a career in the field I am studying just to please people who want free games. I'm sorry, but satisfying pirates who are too damn cheap to pay for a game that they supposedly love does not give me any benefit whatsoever -- it only makes me one of them and paints a target on my back when I want to look for a job. Killing any future prospects that I have in the field I love is certainly not worth satisfying pirates.

If you're really going to harp on it, I'll start writing code to make sure no pirated copies can get on the server at all. As soon as I finish with what I'm working on now, I'll get right on doing that.

Actually, the first thing to go, I'll go ahead and do now. The tool for generating serial numbers and access keys for PSO for PC has been removed from the website. All future uses of serial numbers and access keys that are not included with a physical copy of the game are henceforth banned.

I know fully that doing so will kill PSO for PC. That's fine by me at this point. If it proves the point that I don't want anything to do with piracy, then so be it. I hope you enjoy what you have forced me to do. :roll:
Screen Shot 2014-06-09 at 12.18.19 PM.png
Hey don't be radical do not put in my back the weight this is all just an open discussion not a request from me to disturb the other hunters
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by |darc| » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:35 am

legit nyck wrote:Hey don't be radical do not put in my back the weight this is all just an open discussion not a request from me to disturb the other hunters

No, it's not--it's now a locked discussion. Neither Sylverant nor DCEmulation will aid anyone in piracy, but it is not our responsibility to prevent it. It was fine to discuss it, but it was never up for debate.

It's your choice to play on Sylverant or not. We welcome you to play, but if you don't like the policy, you're free to play elsewhere.
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Re: about the politics of piracy

Post by BlueCrab » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:37 am

legit nyck wrote:Hey don't be radical do not put in my back the weight this is all just an open discussion not a request from me to disturb the other hunters
Think about it from my perspective.

What good does it do me to link to a pirated copy of the game? How does that help me in any way? Perhaps it increases the server population, but does that outweigh the problems it would cause for me?

My legal name is associated with this server. I have been offered at least one job in the video game industry based solely upon the work I've done on this server. Why would I throw that away to make lives easier for those who feel that the game industry owes them free games? Why should I throw my future away for someone else's piracy fix?

I shouldn't, and I won't. It is not the legal thing to do. It is not the moral thing to do. It is certainly not the intelligent thing to do.

I've dealt with the pirates up to this point because they never attacked me for being against piracy. I don't appreciate being attacked for worrying about my future and how doing illegal stuff could harm that future. Note how I don't active attack the pirates either until I am attacked first?

I'm also not a fan of PSO drama in the least. I love PSO. I love working on Sylverant. But I most certainly do not love the drama that always seems to be stirred up.

Now, I'd prefer that we just leave this discussion here and get back to living in peace without the drama. I'll never directly support piracy. I'll never link to a pirated copy of PSO. I'll never specifically enable people to pirate the game. That said, I'd really prefer to not have to take time out of my already small amount of time that I can work on Sylverant to break the game so that you can't pirate it.

Also, for those to whom it may not be immediately obvious: I'm not working on any real anti-piracy features. I'd probably sooner give up on Sylverant entirely than to do something that I know I'd hate doing with it.
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