Congress Passes Health Care Reform Bill

[Jeeba Jabba]

Capitolyst.

[Stryfe]

No matter how partisan this was down party lines, every Republican voted against it, and even some Democrats....

It is by far the least popular bill presented to the people, the citizens, of the US that I've ever known of.

Mainly because of the socialist vibes that it portrays, regardless of how many people would benefit from it in a positive way, it's seen as anti american.

Even if it were to pass the House, I have a feeling the public's distaste/disgust may lead to a reversal. After all, these representative are supposed to be representing their constituents agendas, and not the best interest of the country in it's entirety.

Ahhhh... Democracy, or at least the components of democracy we have in our government. It does not care about the minority, or rights, it cares about the interest of the mob.

[DaMadFiddler]

Typical wingnut reaction to last night:

One cannot help but admire Nancy Pelosi's skill as a legislator. But it's also pretty worrying. Are we now in a world where there is absolutely no recourse to the tyranny of the majority? Republicans and other opponents of the bill did their job on this; they persuaded the country that they didn't want this bill. And that mattered basically not at all. If you don't find that terrifying, let me suggest that you are a Democrat who has not yet contemplated what Republicans might do under similar circumstances. Farewell, Social Security! Au revoir, Medicare! The reason entitlements are hard to repeal is that the Republicans care about getting re-elected. If they didn't--if they were willing to undertake this sort of suicide mission--then the legislative lock-in you're counting on wouldn't exist.

Please! Let the Republicans explicitly campaign on eliminating Social Security and Medicare! But Republicans don't make head-on assaults on Medicare of Social Security because they know they'd get crushed if they did. That's why they tried their backdoor attempt to subvert Social Security by privatizing it. Anything more explicit would mean instant electoral death.

Democrats, on the other hand, were explicit with their agenda: They campaigned on a platform of health care reform. The voters responded with two successive wave elections and a landslide White House victory.

14 months later, after hundreds of millions of dollars spent against the reform effort and the never-ending stream of bullshit scare attacks (death panels!), the overall public still didn't buy conservative anti-reform arguments. Indeed, a significant portion of opposition to HCR came from disaffected liberals who wanted more out of our big majorities. For example, look at CNN's latest:

Do you oppose that legislation because you think its approach toward health care is too liberal, or because you think it is not liberal enough?

39 % Favor (from previous question)
43% Oppose, too liberal
13% Oppose, not liberal enough

Sorry, but 43 percent isn't persuading the country that "they didn't want this bill."

So let's recap.

1. The American people gave Democrats huge electoral victories, as Democrats explicitly campaigned on health care reform.

2. The American people didn't turn against the legislation based on conservative arguments.

3. Congress delivered on campaign promises.

4. ...

5. Tyranny!

Conservatives are funny, funny people. Perhaps a few days in North Korea would teach them what "tyranny" looks like. Hint, it looks nothing like democracy.

Indeed, the problem with our system is actually the tyranny of the MINORITY, and filibuster reform should be key for the Democratic Senate leadership when they lay out the rules for the next Senate in 2011.

[Lartrak]

After all, these representative are supposed to be representing their constituents agendas, and not the best interest of the country in it's entirety.

That's actually debatable, I'd say. If representatives always just did what the majority of the public wanted, the entire country would have already collapsed.

[SuperMegatron]

After all, these representative are supposed to be representing their constituents agendas, and not the best interest of the country in it's entirety.

That's actually debatable, I'd say. If representatives always just did what the majority of the public wanted, the entire country would have already collapsed.

Agreed. We dont live in a direct democracy.

[Specially Cork]

After all, these representative are supposed to be representing their constituents agendas, and not the best interest of the country in it's entirety.

That's actually debatable, I'd say. If representatives always just did what the majority of the public wanted, the entire country would have already collapsed.

Agreed. We dont live in a direct democracy.

Would you want to?
If my bathroom floods, I want the plumber who is going to do the best job of fixing it, not the guy who does what I say he should do - because I don't know a lot about plumbing.
Same with politics.

[Jeeba Jabba]

I'd rather be dictator and oppress the fuck out of all of you.

[DaMadFiddler]

from Crooks and Liars:

Democrats: "We need health care reform"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Give us a majority and we'll do it better"
Democrats: "Done, you have majority of both houses"

12 years later, health care is irrefutably worse in every respect for every single person in the United States

Democrats: "We need health care reform"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Americans are tired of partisan politics!"
Democrats: "OK, let's compromise"
Republicans: "OK, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done"
Republicans: "Too liberal, get rid of half your ideas"
Democrats: "Done. Time to end debate"
Republicans: "Too liberal, we need more debate, we will filibuster to prevent you from voting"
Democrats: "OK, we'll vote--sorry guys, debate is ended. It's time to vote on the bill"
Republicans: "Too liberal, we vote no"
Democrats: "OK, it passed anyway--sorry guys."

One month later

Republicans: "Wait--wait, OK, we have less of a minority now so we can filibuster forever."
Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"
Republicans: "But we have enough to filibuster"
Democrats: "Sorry, the bill already passed, we need it to pass the House now"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You haven't listened to our ideas! You've shut us out of this whole process!"
Democrats: "Sorry, show us your proposal"
Republicans: "Smaller government"
Democrats: "That's not very specific"
Republicans: "OK, here's our detailed proposal--It's our common-sense ideas we spent 12 years not enacting"
Democrats: "OK, we'll add a bunch more of your ideas"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You included all these back-room deals"
Democrats: "OK, we'll get rid of the back-room deals"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're using obscure procedural tricks to eliminate the back-room deals!"
Democrats: "No, we're using reconciliation, which both parties have used dozens of times for much larger bills"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! You're pressuring Congressmen to vote for your bill! Scandal!"
Democrats: "It's called 'whipping', it's been done since 1789"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Can't you see the American people don't want this?"
Democrats: "This bill is mildly unpopular (40-50%), doing nothing (your proposal) is extraordinarily unpopular (4-6%)"
Republicans: "We need to start over! We need to start over!"
Democrats: "We should really consider voting--"
Republicans: "Liberal fascists! Start over! Clean slate! Common-sense! America!"

[Stryfe]

Good (Maybe):
1.) This bill enables health care access to people, and groups of people, who have never been able to afford it due to unethical insurance agency practices.
2.) Although on of the last first world countries to do so, the US will soon have accessible health to the general public.

Bad (Maybe):
1.) The bill passes on being socialist in policy, which is seen as anti-american by many. It should be noted that socialism, and communism, are not one and the same.
2.) It's forced down people's throats, with penalties and fines being applicable. The definition of 'big government' interference that defies the founding concepts of the country.

Being that this is 2010, how influencial should some people's ideals from the 1700's be in our modern day lives though?

[Lartrak]

Being that this is 2010, how influencial should some people's ideals from the 1700's be in our modern day lives though?

Very, since they were some very smart people. But ideals and what works best in practice aren't always the same thing. Anyone who thinks, for example, the US could actually properly function with as small of a government as even 100 years ago isn't thinking too clearly.