Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

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Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by DaMadFiddler » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:16 am

Well, at least they got one part of the formula right... only time will tell if they still know how to make a decent 2D platformer.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6216991.html
Since he debuted just under 20 years ago, Sonic the Hedgehog has been Sega's mainstay mascot. Today, the Japanese publisher revealed that it working on an all-new reinvention of the titular spiny spinner by taking him back to his two dimensional roots.

The new game, code-named Project Needlemouse, will debut sometime next year on as-yet unidentified consoles. So far, the only glimpse of the game has come via a mysterious teaser trailer, which only shows the outline of the new look of the hero at the end.

"Speed returns in an all new 2D adventure built from the ground up" declares the teaser trailer, before showing a blue blur zipping across the screen scooping up golden rings. Accompanying it is a litany of sound effects and visual cues from the first Sonic the Hedgehog, who launched worldwide in the summer of 1991 on the Sega Genesis system.

Since then, then character helped launch all of Sega's system until its last, the Dreamcast, went on sale 10 years ago. In the years since that console's implosion, Sonic has appeared on all its former rivals' consoles in dozens of games, and has undergone several high-profile reboots. The most recent titles to feature him were last fall's Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, and Sonic Unleashed, which was better reviewed on the Wii than PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

Speaking with GameSpot, Sega associate brand manager, Ken Balough confirmed that Project Needle mouse will feature HD graphics. He also said the game's concept was a response to "old-school Sonic fans" who "have long asked to see Sonic return to a more 2D style of gameplay."
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Nico0020 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:33 am

Hopefully they dont give us the kind of BS they gave us with Sonic Rush. All I did was hold "right" on the dpad and had to jump I think twice in the first level. Sonic is meant to be a platfomer combined with speed. Not a game where you just see how close you can make your character get to the side of the screen. Sonic advance 1 and 3 were done quite well, if it is anything like those games i'll be happy.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Specially Cork » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:09 am

This will all fall apart when:

- The level design team puts the grinding and fall-out features in.
- They decide Sonic on his own is too boring so put him in mandatory rotation with the rest of the crazy cast.
- Somebody asks why Sonic is doing what he's doing, and they all run to the bathroom to crap out a plot.
- It's decided platforming isn't enough for the 21st century, so half the levels end up based around a gimmick.
- Tails speaks.

Sonic doesn't deserve my hope anymore. I'll asume it's shit until proven otherwise.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by cube_b3 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:20 am

Making him 2D is bull shit!

I know I am in the minority but 2D sonic games feel outdated to me, 3D is much better just because Sonic Team can't get post Dreamcast Sonic games up to the mark doesn't make 2D better.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Specially Cork » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:01 am

BILAL_XIA wrote:Making him 2D is bull shit!

I know I am in the minority but 2D sonic games feel outdated to me, 3D is much better just because Sonic Team can't get post Dreamcast Sonic games up to the mark doesn't make 2D better.
Yes you're absolutely right. When you spend the best part of a decade struggling with the 3rd dimension and making an endless stream of sub-par games in the process, it's obviously better to continue in that direction than try something else. :roll:
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Lartrak » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:08 pm

BoneyCork wrote:This will all fall apart when:

- The level design team puts the grinding and fall-out features in.
- They decide Sonic on his own is too boring so put him in mandatory rotation with the rest of the crazy cast.
- Somebody asks why Sonic is doing what he's doing, and they all run to the bathroom to crap out a plot.
- It's decided platforming isn't enough for the 21st century, so half the levels end up based around a gimmick.
- Tails speaks.

Sonic doesn't deserve my hope anymore. I'll asume it's shit until proven otherwise.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:31 pm

Does anyone know who's developing it ?
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Covar » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:27 am

Sega?

I think if they made it Sonic 4 they would have some big internal motivation to make it great.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by mrandyk » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:53 pm

I havent played Sonic Unleashed but I had heard that they were getting close to what Sonic Adventure was at some parts, I would have thought they would keep trying with the 3d formula since they were actually getting somehwere.

2d is great though, I just hope that it isnt Sonic Advance or Rush but on a console.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by cube_b3 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:40 pm

BoneyCork wrote:
BILAL_XIA wrote:Making him 2D is bull shit!

I know I am in the minority but 2D sonic games feel outdated to me, 3D is much better just because Sonic Team can't get post Dreamcast Sonic games up to the mark doesn't make 2D better.
Yes you're absolutely right. When you spend the best part of a decade struggling with the 3rd dimension and making an endless stream of sub-par games in the process, it's obviously better to continue in that direction than try something else. :roll:
Especially when Sonic Adventure & 2 failed critically and commercially and they did not make it on the top 5 position on the Dreamcast Top 100 list.

Then we have critical and commercial failures like SA:DX, SA2 Battle & Sonic Heroes all critical and commercial failures that failed to introduced Sonic to a whole new generation of kids.

Sonic has not gone down hill due to the firing of the original voice cast, and several key crew members or the fact that each new game has an awful gimmick it is because they are 3D.
cube_b3 wrote:I was thinking why the new Golden Axe game was a flop, why was it that the 3 year old CGI Trailer and Concept Art looked better graphically than the final product?

I am pretty sure it wasn't because the game was handed to Secret Level a studio prior to releasing that game was largely responsible for porting games, the reason it failed was because it wasn't in 2D, the game worked best in 2D right.

Good old, really old out dated side scrolling game play that we love so very much.

I also think Rieko Kodama's Altered Beast Remake of Altered Beast was a flop because it was 3D had it been a good old out dated 2D side scroller it would've been a win.

I am pretty sure it wasn't because the game was outsourced to china for cost cutting.

Then we have the worst game to make the transition from 2D to 3D Street Fighter 4, that is an utter complete miserable failure the game just doesn't work in 3D right, Street Fighter 4 would've been successful had it been 2D.
_____________


Satire aside why the hell does every one want a 2D Sonic Game?

Why does every regressed 10 year old wants Sonic to regress to 2D?

The 90's are over, 2D is out, MOVE ON!

From a personal point of view I have always enjoyed Sonic a hell of a lot more in 3D than I ever have in 2D.

Seriously just because the 3 or 4 Sonic games, people have insisted all 3D Sonic games are a failure when the truth couldn't be further away Sonic Adventure is not only critically acclaimed butofficially the most connsumed game on Dreamcast and for good reason.
Because of Dreamcast Discontinuation Sonic Adventure 2 only received critical acclaim and not massive sales however it was ported to Gamecube where it became one of the best selling games on the system.


Then we have Sonic Heroes a game that I will own by January and comment on further but for now I am going to go with the critics and sales and say that the game is a critical and commercial success based on intial reviews and sales.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Eviltaco64X » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:18 pm

Newer Sonic games have been known to be glitchy. Sonic Heroes wasn't too great. Sonic '06 was an alright game, but the load times and bad controls tainted it.

Unleashed wasn't what I was looking for personally. The daytime stages worked great, but were fixed tracks leaving you with almost no ability to explore.

I'd really like to see Sega release something along the lines of an Adventure 3 with gameplay similar to the last two (with a soundtrack like the first).

A 2D Sonic could be a breath of fresh air. Fans have been demanding a true sequel to Sonic 3 and Knuckles for some time and Sega seems to have finally given in to it. If they get this game right (no voice acting, no cutscenes, no stupid ass plot), then maybe there's still hope for Sonic.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Christuserloeser » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:36 pm

Covar wrote:Sega?
Sega is a publisher. I meant the developer: Sonic Team, Sonic Team USA, Bioware, Traveller's Tales, and a dozen others did Sonic games in the past.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by cube_b3 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:04 am

Eviltaco64X wrote:I'd really like to see Sega release something along the lines of an Adventure 3 with gameplay similar to the last two (with a soundtrack like the first).
That is Sonic 06 and it is more similar to SA1 than 2.
A 2D Sonic could be a breath of fresh air. Fans have been demanding a true sequel to Sonic 3 and Knuckles for some time and Sega seems to have finally given in to it. If they get this game right (no voice acting, no cutscenes, no stupid ass plot), then maybe there's still hope for Sonic.
My view is still the same.

I consider this a step back, more like recycling old concepts rather than perfecting and progressing.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by BlackAura » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:31 am

"Speed returns"? Seriously?

Ugh...

The original 2D Sonic games were essentially your standard platform games. They had two distinguishing features.

The first (and, in my opinion, most important) was it had a real sense of momentum. Speed was a small part of this. More important was that your momentum affected every part of your movement. You have to accelerate to get to top speed, and decelerate to get back to a halt, or to change direction. The terrain affects your momentum somewhat realistically - you accelerate downhill, slow down going uphill, your jump trajectory is affected by your movement, and the terrain can be used to alter your direction.

Need to go up? Run into a wall with a curved bit on it. Need to get over a hole that's too wide to jump? Run headlong into the half-loop off to one side, and run across the ceiling, over the hole, dropping off the ceiling just as you hit the other side. Huge pit with a bad guy at the bottom, and no obvious other way over? Jump from a great height onto the badguy, sending yourself bouncing back up, and over the pit. Need to get on a platform, but it's too high? Go back a bit, down a little hill, hit a springboard, go back up the hill at high speed, jumping just before you reach the top, sending yourself sailing neatly up onto the platform you could never have reached before.

OK, maybe that's just the way I played it. I always considered Sonic's movement to be less about speed, and more about acrobatics. The speed was just something that enabled the acrobatics, and broke up the platforming sections.

The other important aspect is the level design. While the first levels of each game (Green Hill, Emerald Hill, Angel Island, Mushroom Hill) were basically straight left-to-right running, occasionally jumping over / onto something, most of the other levels were much slower paced, and more complex. You have small platforming sections, with obstacles and terrain that you need to get past, connected together by short high-speed sections. You even have multiple pathways through almost every level, often needing to use your momentum to reach the less obvious routes, or forcing you to take a more difficult route (underwater, for example) if you screw up and fall. The Flying Battery in Sonic and Knuckles is a great example - there are enough alternate routes that you'd have to play the level at least three times to find them all.

Newer games have neither of those things. The games basically play like they're on rails. Aside from running into obstacles before you can see them, the speed (which is stupidly fast in Sonic Unleashed) doesn't really seem to accomplish very much. Just press left and right to dodge around the obstacles, mash the jump button occasionally where you need to hit enemies, and let the game funnel you down a fixed path between the different parts of a level. Scripted transitions everywhere. Walk over here to play an animation of Sonic going around a loop. Hold down to watch a whale destroying a bridge. Entire levels that are basically a giant downhill road, walled off at the sides, with an unmissable wall of springboards at the end which catapult you directly onto another giant downhill road...

The general trend is that Sonic Team seem to think they can remove all the platform game elements, while just making the game faster and faster. Which is boring. If I wanted that, I'd play something else. Or go on a roller coaster.

It's not confined to 3D either. Sonic Rush suffers from the same problem, combined with a tendency to put a bottomless pit in the middle of a section where the level design forces you to be headed right at full speed, inevitably causing you to fall down the hole and die unless you know it's coming. Sonic Rivals is just as bad.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Lartrak » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:29 pm

It's not confined to 3D either. Sonic Rush suffers from the same problem, combined with a tendency to put a bottomless pit in the middle of a section where the level design forces you to be headed right at full speed, inevitably causing you to fall down the hole and die unless you know it's coming. Sonic Rivals is just as bad.
Yep. That ruined Sonic Rush for me. The interspersing of speed, acrobatics, and well-done platforming is really what made the first 3.5 Sonic games.

I think your analysis was spot on Black.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Specially Cork » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:37 pm

I've always thought the same. Going back to play Marble Zone / Scrap Brain Zone etc. - these levels don't really play any faster than Mario. There certainly isn't much running involved.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by cube_b3 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:01 am

The old Mario's could be played extremly fast for the record.

Also I am more of a fan of Sonic 2 onwards when speed became much more relevant while I agree with most of what Dark has said I think we are downplaying speed quite a bit, if it wasn't all about speed he wouldn't be called 'Sonic'.

The first game's prototype's were so fast they gave Naka motion sickness, these are his own words you can youtube the Gametap history of Sonic.

Speed was reduced in the final build to attract the maximum consumers and increase the speed, Sonic 2 the best Sonic game for the genesis (alone not cd) is extremly fast especially when you unlock super sonic.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by Eviltaco64X » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:23 pm

Breaking news!
Sonic Team's new policy wrote:GOTTA GO FAST, GOTTA GO FAST, GOTTA GO FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by bloodite » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:06 pm

The only hope for a good sonic game is an outside party making it, I mean it seems only the fans really know what will make a decent sonic game, Ive thought of having a crack at making a proof of concept demo myself cause I dig doing that sort of stuff, My idea for the perfect somic game would be:

1. 2.5d, but with the animations keyframed to match the original, more frames means slower response so its gotta be split second control.
2. half the levels are roller coaster type parts with the other half platforming, similar to the first and second games, with some of the original locations making a cameo.
3. the move set has to be streamlined to basic stuff with maybe a swappable ability slot or two for expansion, entirely optional and not needed to complete anything.
3. Include the cast, but only as reinforcing for sonic (like in the background handing him items after he saves them for example) maybe have 1 or 2 as unlockables (not necessary for gameplay at all and totally forgettable)
4. dump the hard rock for the upbeat pop stuff like the original series.
5. Set after the events of sonic and knuckles, but before the crap stuff that went too far.
6. Have the villain not be robotnik but a partner that betrays him and takes over his robots; of course you have to save him as well.
7. Basically the original formula except reinforced with new featurees that remain unecessary and only add dimension, rather than forcing a new play type (the key to the whole thing IMO)

Frankly a proper sonic revival is still needed but easily obtainable if Sega only listened to its fans, but of course wont. A decent Sonic game should have come out years ago and it has not dawned on Sega that its not more its what made them great what fans want. The revival of the oldschool games shows this. The formula for success with sonic is simple:

Keep the spirit of the original series and only expand with characters, story ect, if it dosent directly interefere with this formula. expand the world, ect keep the gameplay the same, adding new (but unecessary) additions to make those people happy.

Even if Sega dosent fuck this new one up like the others, Ill probably will try to make my own vision of this, just to see how it would go. Im glad Ive never played any or the new games but sonic adventiure, and even I though adventure was pushing it a bit (too many roller coaster scenes and running around doing jack) i think it ws the last to have any sort of resemblance to the original series.
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Re: Next Sonic Game to Be 2D HD

Post by melancholy » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:10 pm

BILAL_XIA wrote:Speed was reduced in the final build to attract the maximum consumers and increase the speed, Sonic 2 the best Sonic game for the genesis (alone not cd) is extremly fast especially when you unlock super sonic.
The funny thing is that I always hated playing as Super Sonic for that very reason: he was just too fast.

Though I never really considered it, BlackAura is exactly right. I always knew there was something just...off about the new 2D Sonic games and I think that's it, there's just too much scripted tracks and nearly no momentum.

I did think Sonic Rush was pretty awesome with it's first 3-4 stages. After that it was just all pits of death sucking the fun out of the game.
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