Bus Wars: The battles are being won.

[U-said-it]

You've gone pretty far off-topic, man. All I said was that atheism bears some similarities to religion (large following, general beliefs, several of those believers always on the defense about it). Is this not true?

Atheism is a belief, or a denial that god/s exist, yes. I never said otherwise.

I'm not at all saying that science tries to replace claims made by religion. In fact, science is almost the exact opposite of it (exploration and theories rather than faith).

This is a misconception that equates one of the following: Religion = Anti-Science, or, Atheism = Science.

Both could be reasonably said to be false.

You're also being the perfect example of what I was trying to point out earlier in this thread.. Comparing a deity that really can't be proven but somehow managed to make quite the impact in this world to Santa Claus? That's gonna do nothing but insult millions of people. The more you insult, the more the tension rises.

The impact as you put it could be viewed as positive or negative, but only on the belief in that deity, you'd be using circular reason to say the actual deity made the impact. Not to mention, it'd be a perfect example of the logical fallacy - the Appeal to Popularity.

Santa Claus is pretty much based off the real St. Nicholas, anyway.

True, sorry for the bad example.

I really don't know what you're getting at with that last paragraph. It's really not even relevant to my post, but there was a lot of backwardness centuries ago. Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and Atheists have all had their times of persecution and power. Now, however, is the time to get along and maybe not look down our noses at "the others".

The point I'm getting at is the nod to non-believers in Obama's inaugural adress, and that combined with things like these bus ads, say it's okay to be an atheist/agnostic.

Publically, and proudly.

On the other note, I don't think there have been appreciable numbers of atheists/agnostics in history until know, and I'd think you have a hard time finding an example of atheistic persecution.

[Ex-Cyber]

On the other note, I don't think there have been appreciable numbers of atheists/agnostics in history until know, and I'd think you have a hard time finding an example of atheistic persecution.

Well, the standard example is the USSR, although atheism arguably wasn't the point.

[Specially Cork]

I don't consider my atheism a belief, in the same way I don't say "I believe the heart pumps blood around the body". I don't believe it to be true, I consider it to be proven fact. Proven by what? Proven by the world I live in. God's entire supposed state is abnormal compared to everything else. There is no reason for me to believe in such an abnormality without proof or explaination. The Santa Claus comparison is insulting - but it is still appropriate. Why did I stop believing in him? Because I got older and wiser. I learnt about reality and concluded that such a man could not exist - in the same way I realised a magician can't really make himself disappear. There was never a leap of faith there. It just became bloody obvious. I never treated God any differently.

[Jeeba Jabba]

I don't consider my atheism a belief, in the same way I don't say "I believe the heart pumps blood around the body". I don't believe it to be true, I consider it to be proven fact. Proven by what? Proven by the world I live in. God's entire supposed state is abnormal compared to everything else. There is no reason for me to believe in such an abnormality without proof or explaination. The Santa Claus comparison is insulting - but it is still appropriate. Why did I stop believing in him? Because I got older and wiser. I learnt about reality and concluded that such a man could not exist - in the same way I realised a magician can't really make himself disappear. There was never a leap of faith there. It just became bloody obvious. I never treated God any differently.

Well put. In my case it was instantly evident through the learning of history around 12 years old; understanding human migration and similar habits in belief structures concerning the unexplainable. While I don't deny the possibility of higher power over the universe or reality, following an interventionist man-made one is impossible for me.