Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Sylverant is a homebrew open source server for Phantasy Star Online. Dreamcast users still play PSO online with this server even today! This is the official forum for both the online game server as well as the open source project itself. Feel free to post and get a gathering started online! We can also show you how to get connected!

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MichaelStenberg
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by MichaelStenberg » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:17 am

BlueCrab wrote:Episode III has been on my list of stuff to do for a long time, actually.

The problem is that it doesn't seem like there was any sort of concerted effort to log packets to/from the official server (at least that I've seen) back when it was up. That somewhat limits the things that can be done to support it without spending a lot of time and effort that may not ever even bear fruit in the end. My time is far too limited at this point to put in that sort of effort, unfortunately. :?

If people want to work on trying to write code for Episode III support, they're welcome to try to do so. Remember, Sylverant is an open-source project for a reason. :wink: If people want to try to add that support in, they're more than welcome to do so and I'd most likely incorporate any patches into the code to do so (assuming they were relatively clean and didn't break anything else in the server).
I had somewhat of an idea that this was the problem. It's interesting that this was the case, I remember there being one or two private servers up - not very publicly, of course - which surprises me that there wasn't more work done on Episode 3's networking.

I am, in the basic sense, familiar with the coding of PSO EpIII, such as the card list and their hex values, the stage values and what not, along with the basic functionality of the game (the tournaments, lobby tables, jukebox, card attributes, VIP cards, etc.) Not sure how much this would end up helping anyone really at this point, but hey. It's something.

I'm looking in to doing what I can, even looking at the source you've released, but I'm thinking that you've got a point - It may be quite over my head. Speaking of which, I was just in awe looking through lines and lines of code - it's all very fascinating to see the inner workings of a server. Never gets old.

Just wish I had a time machine where we could go back a few years and take notes. :) Hah.

Thank you for your time and, of course, all of your hard work. Hopefully in the not to distant future, we can all enjoy a CARD battle or two on the complete Sylverant PSO Server.

EDIT: Say, I haven't compiled or anything quite yet, but how verbose can the server be? If it were to receive a request it did not understand, would/can it log it?

I've got a project of my own to finish, but I'm very interested.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by BlueCrab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:28 am

MichaelStenberg wrote:Thank you for your time and, of course, all of your hard work. Hopefully in the not to distant future, we can all enjoy a CARD battle or two on the complete Sylverant PSO Server.
I actually have two copies of PSO Episode III in my collection, so I'd really be happy to see it working, even if I never played it when it was still active on the official servers.
EDIT: Say, I haven't compiled or anything quite yet, but how verbose can the server be? If it were to receive a request it did not understand, would/can it log it?
When the server receives a packet it does not understand, it logs the packet to stdout (or stderr) and kicks the client that sent the packet off so as to make sure not to corrupt their data by either responding incorrectly or not at all.

Also, there is a command to have the server log all packets sent to and from clients on a guildcard number basis.
Just wish I had a time machine where we could go back a few years and take notes. :) Hah.
As they always say, hindsight is 20/20. Believe me, there are many instances where I have said the same with the other versions of PSO.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by Aleron Ives » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:24 pm

When it comes to the other versions of PSO, we were fortunate that enough people with the hacker mindset took an interest in the game to make records of Sega's server before it died. Those packet logs are in large part the reason private servers exist for PSO in such a relatively complete and stable fashion. Unfortunately, Episode III did not have the same level of popularity or appeal that the other games did, and as a result, nobody took the time to make comprehensive logs of how the server functioned. It is possible that this fact will forever doom Episode III to only partial online functionality, because nobody knows how it is supposed to work, and trying to guess how the server should function is an impossible task.

The one thing that has come up before as a way to improve Episode III support is to build a card function database using a scripting language like Python, which would contain a list of every card in the game and what it is supposed to do. Integrating that list with the server would theoretically enable all cards to have their proper functions, but that still leaves the problem of knowing how the server and client are supposed to interact to produce the desired results during card battles. If the existing list of known packets is sufficient to create all card functions, assuming the correct attributes are "plugged in" to the packets, then such a list of card functions could be highly beneficial; if different card functions require different packets that were never logged from Sega's server, then even restoring card functions may be hopeless.

The only other possible avenue of research would be disassembling and studying the game itself to figure out how its network protocol works, and that would be a massive project that nobody has the time and expertise necessary to complete.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by legit nyck » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:22 am

Aleron Ives wrote:When it comes to the other versions of PSO, we were fortunate that enough people with the hacker mindset took an interest in the game to make records of Sega's server before it died. Those packet logs are in large part the reason private servers exist for PSO in such a relatively complete and stable fashion. Unfortunately, Episode III did not have the same level of popularity or appeal that the other games did, and as a result, nobody took the time to make comprehensive logs of how the server functioned. It is possible that this fact will forever doom Episode III to only partial online functionality, because nobody knows how it is supposed to work, and trying to guess how the server should function is an impossible task.

The one thing that has come up before as a way to improve Episode III support is to build a card function database using a scripting language like Python, which would contain a list of every card in the game and what it is supposed to do. Integrating that list with the server would theoretically enable all cards to have their proper functions, but that still leaves the problem of knowing how the server and client are supposed to interact to produce the desired results during card battles. If the existing list of known packets is sufficient to create all card functions, assuming the correct attributes are "plugged in" to the packets, then such a list of card functions could be highly beneficial; if different card functions require different packets that were never logged from Sega's server, then even restoring card functions may be hopeless.

The only other possible avenue of research would be disassembling and studying the game itself to figure out how its network protocol works, and that would be a massive project that nobody has the time and expertise necessary to complete.
now I read everything you said I wonder why not put aleron ives once and for all the psobb to run in sylverant?
with your experience in the -shitsrv- I believe for a complete psobb
with trade and challenge
It would be quite easy with this sylverant also would have a full server psobb as -shisrv- (which by the way has lost many members thanks to ignorance of Chinese named lee opsss of uk) Image
I also wonder about psu
I don't have any Active Server this version and if sylverant this support for this version
We could expect an explosion of online users
don't agree with me? Image
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by BlueCrab » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:02 am

The reason we don't have full PSOBB support is mainly my lack of time or interest to work on it. At some point, sure, I will probably get the urge and have some time to do so, but until then we won't.

In all honesty, I find it more interesting to support the trial versions of the game, simply because nobody else has full support for them. :wink: That, and I have very little time to actually work on Sylverant right now.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by tueidj » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:59 am

Why isn't Gallon's Shop available on Sylverant?
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by legit nyck » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:22 pm

BlueCrab wrote:The reason we don't have full PSOBB support is mainly my lack of time or interest to work on it. At some point, sure, I will probably get the urge and have some time to do so, but until then we won't.

In all honesty, I find it more interesting to support the trial versions of the game, simply because nobody else has full support for them. :wink: That, and I have very little time to actually work on Sylverant right now.
O.O so can we expect very soon psobb here at sylverant ... ... ... ... lol man you deserve even a song to you blue :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBp4DICS ... WZVQ-8dzDo
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by BlueCrab » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:55 pm

legit nyck wrote:O.O so can we expect very soon psobb here at sylverant
I don't know what in my response said "very soon" to you, but I can assure you that I have no time right now to work on things related to Sylverant. Don't count on it any time soon.
tueidj wrote:Why isn't Gallon's Shop available on Sylverant?
Which ship? If it is Iselia, then I probably managed to remove the quest file at some point and forgot to put it back. If it is one of the other ships, you'll have to ask the people in charge of them. :wink:
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by tueidj » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:16 pm

BlueCrab wrote:Which ship? If it is Iselia, then I probably managed to remove the quest file at some point and forgot to put it back. If it is one of the other ships, you'll have to ask the people in charge of them. :wink:
Iselia is missing the Shops category completely. Vega shows the category but says "It failed in downloading. Please try again later." when selecting it - both ships also seem to do this for other categories when they don't contain any quests for the current episode. Palmacosta does the same just trying to view the category list.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by BlueCrab » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:12 pm

tueidj wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:Which ship? If it is Iselia, then I probably managed to remove the quest file at some point and forgot to put it back. If it is one of the other ships, you'll have to ask the people in charge of them. :wink:
Iselia is missing the Shops category completely. Vega shows the category but says "It failed in downloading. Please try again later." when selecting it - both ships also seem to do this for other categories when they don't contain any quests for the current episode. Palmacosta does the same just trying to view the category list.
The "It failed in downloading" message means that the list is empty. The server sends the game an empty list, and the game puts that message up.

I'm guessing Palmacosta still hasn't configured the quest list, so that's why it would throw that one up.

I'll see if I have the quest on the server somewhere. If not, I'll have to find it in my backups of my computer.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by tueidj » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:18 pm

Wouldn't it be better not to send the empty categories so they can't be selected?
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by BlueCrab » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:27 am

tueidj wrote:Wouldn't it be better not to send the empty categories so they can't be selected?
Yes, that probably would make more sense. :wink:

Added to my ever-expanding list of things to do.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by Aleron Ives » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:22 pm

The quest categories can't be restricted by episode yet, so you have to show all categories in both episodes. DCv1 users used to have a similar problem when Ver.1 didn't have its own list, as they'd see empty Event and VR categories, since none of the quests in those categories are compatible with Ver.1. Now that Ver.1 has its own quest list, that doesn't happen anymore, but the GC side is still a work in progress. ;)
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What other gameplay information is tracked by Slyverant?

Post by kencaesi » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:41 pm

What other gameplay information is collected by Slyverant? Would it be possible to implement leader boards?

Inspired from the other online games and services and the the latest post mentioning that slyverant tracks users kills, its been a bit a fantasy to see statistics of my personal achivements and those around me - lifetime kills, character longevity, characters who recently increased in rank or attainted Lv. 100 or 200. I could go on...

Is it possible to implement any of this at all?
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Re: What other gameplay information is tracked by Slyverant?

Post by BlueCrab » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:02 pm

kencaesi wrote:What other gameplay information is collected by Slyverant? Would it be possible to implement leader boards?

Inspired from the other online games and services and the the latest post mentioning that slyverant tracks users kills, its been a bit a fantasy to see statistics of my personal achivements and those around me - lifetime kills, character longevity, characters who recently increased in rank or attainted Lv. 100 or 200. I could go on...

Is it possible to implement any of this at all?
Other than monster kills (only when enabled by a GM, currently, as I never finished testing it out), I don't really collect any sort of gameplay data at all. If you have specific ideas of stuff to collect, I'd certainly be willing to hear them out.

The one problem with collecting stuff about leveling and such is that people can play with multiple different characters, all on the same guild card. When dealing with any version other than Blue Burst, there's no way to know if someone deletes a character, which would make bookkeeping hard... Unless, of course, the system just kept track of the last 5 people to reach a milestone or something like that.

Anyway, if you have specific ideas of stuff to collect, hash them out a bit and let me know. I'd be happy to take a look at any sorts of ideas people have. That said, I don't really know of what any sort of time-table would be to implementing that kind of stuff, as I've been pretty busy lately.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by K_I_R_E_E_K » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:13 pm

Tracking kills is nice, leaderboards, not so much

You see, every single person here plays a different version of PSO, they use what they think is fair and so 1001 versions of pso exist, each one with a combination of mods and patches that alter gameplay directly.
If you could check the kills you made so far on the server then it would be nice, but the leaderboards means making all kills visible to all players and unfortunatly since everyone is playing a different PSO, it makes the leaderboards pointless.

I sometimes go to the server to do something in a specific room, so i kill fast to get there, like impossibly fast, tracking that and then showing it to everyone else isn't exactly correct, players would correctly doubt the kills because you can't do that many in such a short time.
This is an extreme example, but altered enemy stats, item stats, char stats and so on would make the leaderboards pointless, having more or less is not a concern for some players, because they already know everyone plays a different version of PSO.

Yes there are some players who play one version of PSO, it's the easiest one to get actually, but they don't mingle with the rest very often.

Comparing kills isn't the best idea, but tracking is.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by tueidj » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:03 am

Over at schtserv we recently discussed how to implement the Red Ring and PGF drops (for gamecube)... might be interesting to add them in combination with stats recording, so there's an increasing chance of them occurring every time the relevant boss is killed?
I suspect the game already does something similar for the rico/flowen appearances after the boss is killed, in addition to checking the weapons used during the fight there's what also looks like a kill count check.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by kencaesi » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:41 pm

Granted I know nothing about Sylverant can work or how to modify it, I can imagine users having users registering and logging in order to have Slyverant track their progress and from that feature in-game list of recent online achvievements

Maybe comparing lifetimes kills might be too much as user K_I_R_E_E_K has explained so how about leaders boards of characters names and times of characters who recently reached S-rank in Challenge mode - recent winners in Battle mode? How many times has Dark Falz been defeated in a 24-hour persiod and who done it recently?
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by K_I_R_E_E_K » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:48 pm

tueidj wrote:Over at schtserv we recently discussed how to implement the Red Ring and PGF drops (for gamecube)... might be interesting to add them in combination with stats recording, so there's an increasing chance of them occurring every time the relevant boss is killed?
I suspect the game already does something similar for the rico/flowen appearances after the boss is killed, in addition to checking the weapons used during the fight there's what also looks like a kill count check.
I'm not sure if the kill is necessary, i believe having the item equiped will trigger it, but i can't be sure so don't quote me on that, maybe the kill gets registered for all that are present since it's a boss.
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Re: Sylverant Feature Suggestions

Post by tueidj » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:37 pm

K_I_R_E_E_K wrote:I'm not sure if the kill is necessary, i believe having the item equiped will trigger it, but i can't be sure so don't quote me on that, maybe the kill gets registered for all that are present since it's a boss.
I haven't actually done real-time debugging on it yet, but in the gamecube code for each of Dark Falz and Olga Flow's death routines there is a counter that gets incremented. The check for Rico's appearance compares the Dark Falz counter to 90 or higher, the check for Flowen's appearance compares the Olga Flow counter to 3 or higher.
Possibly they're not just "boss kill counters" and have some kind of other meaning, but at first glance that's certainly what they look like.

Edit: Debugging reveals the truth; they're not kill counters but simple frame tick counters... so Rico will only appear 90 frames after re-entering the (now empty) Dark Falz arena (same time as the music starts; if Rico is there T1.adx is played, otherwise nothing?) while Flowen appears almost immediately (3 frames) with music choices of either T2.adx or HALL.adx.
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