A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the scene

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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by Juan » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:26 pm

Christuserloeser wrote:
GyroVorbis wrote:We are in a position to either make some drastic changes here and turn the Dreamcast into a very accessible, classic homebrew platform for many years to come, or we can take the easy route, make a few minor changes, keep going the way we are, and merely further postpone this scene's inevitable demise.
Why not do both? Take the easy route AND do the homebrew database (as that's what I am proposing)

My concern is whether we keep those in mind who are really new to scene, those without an SD card reader or without their Dreamcasts hooked up to the net. Anything we should do should work with just a barebones Dreamcast and a CD-R.

When I keep sounding like a broken record about Selfboot Inducer and Dream Inducer I am not referring to how things were in 2003 or whatever. I think the concept of what DMF proposed and bringing back the SBI archive is not mutually exclusive.
I couldn't agree more. One of the things that made the Dreamcast so great for me it's the fact that it's homebrew ready as it is, no need for any extras. And both "inducers" are a good idea to improve on, given the practical implications.
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by DaMadFiddler » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:57 pm

Hey, folks.

I posted a more comprehensive response in the staff forums.
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by ben15dc » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:17 am

I really like the enthusiasm and the general idea. My old hard drive has hundreds of Dreamcast applications, tools and guides i could start work to compile them all together for a single format if or when this takes off. I read this whole thread and got excited and then you go all covert ops on me :)
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:28 am

I am not sure why this has to be kept private ? A lot of the scene's activity happened behing closed doors in the past, maybe it's time to change this ?

(I didn't mean to step on your toes btw, I apologize for that, I really thought this would be better suited in an open debate using your original thread)
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by GyroVorbis » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:56 am

Juan wrote:
Christuserloeser wrote:
GyroVorbis wrote:We are in a position to either make some drastic changes here and turn the Dreamcast into a very accessible, classic homebrew platform for many years to come, or we can take the easy route, make a few minor changes, keep going the way we are, and merely further postpone this scene's inevitable demise.
Why not do both? Take the easy route AND do the homebrew database (as that's what I am proposing)

My concern is whether we keep those in mind who are really new to scene, those without an SD card reader or without their Dreamcasts hooked up to the net. Anything we should do should work with just a barebones Dreamcast and a CD-R.

When I keep sounding like a broken record about Selfboot Inducer and Dream Inducer I am not referring to how things were in 2003 or whatever. I think the concept of what DMF proposed and bringing back the SBI archive is not mutually exclusive.
I couldn't agree more. One of the things that made the Dreamcast so great for me it's the fact that it's homebrew ready as it is, no need for any extras. And both "inducers" are a good idea to improve on, given the practical implications.
By advocating making "drastic changes," I didn't mean starting over from scratch with our software. Leveraging existing software would definitely be the way to go, as it would reduce development time and increase stability, as they have already been tried and tested. And as I have said numerous times, the core functionality of this application would be to create a self-booting image with the bootloader and whatever applications you have grabbed from the DCemu DB. As much as I think the SD card will be the future of the scene, the self-booting image route will always be the most popular.

But there are a few questions that need to be addressed if we want to use Self Boot Inducer/Dream Inducer.

1) Are these multiplatform or do they have a chance of being multiplatform? A huge hassle in this scene is having tools that only work on certain platforms. This end-all, unified, DC iTunes, needs to be multiplatform
2) Do the authors even have any interest in contributing to this? Do they have the time?

It is conceivable that the front-end application that connects to the DCEmu DB and manages the DC applications could simply invoke these other tools. In order for that to work, they either need to add command-line support or work in some other method that allows them to be called externally...
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:46 am

1) No. Selfboot Inducer is a Windows app: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=102172
2) I doubt it, but I will ask.
As for SBInducer, Sizious is still active here (see above link), burnerO is a mod at Shoryuken.com so we know how to reach him.
DreamInducer has been abandoned since 2002 I think. The source code was thought to be lost for almost a decade but has resurfaced back in 2009 - to little to no fanfare at that time: viewtopic.php?p=1013324#p1013324
- I already contacted emptythought aka LyingWake aka fackue but I doubt we can expect a lot of help from him.

We will need a new developer, or better yet, as DMF suggested: a team of developers. (and I would hate to see you waste your time with this instead of Elysian Shadows)
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by DaMadFiddler » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:49 am

Christuserloeser wrote:I am not sure why this has to be kept private ? A lot of the scene's activity happened behing closed doors in the past, maybe it's time to change this ?

(I didn't mean to step on your toes btw, I apologize for that, I really thought this would be better suited in an open debate using your original thread)
Well, the main issue with that was that at this point, it's not really a standalone project. It's inherently tied to my proposal over in staff, which--since it's still in the staff discussion stage--is something I didn't think we were ready to take public yet. I can't really talk in as much detail about what this would entail and why it's important/why the old program is inadequate here, because it's specifically tied to other site stuff that I didn't want to leak.

I feel like the larger overall goals of this project are sort of getting lost in the conversation here, but I can't really explain that in any detail until I know it's okay to discuss in public.
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by ben15dc » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:37 pm

DaMadFiddler wrote:
Christuserloeser wrote:I am not sure why this has to be kept private ? A lot of the scene's activity happened behing closed doors in the past, maybe it's time to change this ?

(I didn't mean to step on your toes btw, I apologize for that, I really thought this would be better suited in an open debate using your original thread)
Well, the main issue with that was that at this point, it's not really a standalone project. It's inherently tied to my proposal over in staff, which--since it's still in the staff discussion stage--is something I didn't think we were ready to take public yet. I can't really talk in as much detail about what this would entail and why it's important/why the old program is inadequate here, because it's specifically tied to other site stuff that I didn't want to leak.

I feel like the larger overall goals of this project are sort of getting lost in the conversation here, but I can't really explain that in any detail until I know it's okay to discuss in public.
I understand the private aspect as of now, though the DC community is getting smaller every year. I think knowing the full scope has potential to gain the most interest, even more so it would help someone decide if they can contribute.
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by DaMadFiddler » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:46 pm

ben15dc wrote:
DaMadFiddler wrote:
Christuserloeser wrote:I am not sure why this has to be kept private ? A lot of the scene's activity happened behing closed doors in the past, maybe it's time to change this ?

(I didn't mean to step on your toes btw, I apologize for that, I really thought this would be better suited in an open debate using your original thread)
Well, the main issue with that was that at this point, it's not really a standalone project. It's inherently tied to my proposal over in staff, which--since it's still in the staff discussion stage--is something I didn't think we were ready to take public yet. I can't really talk in as much detail about what this would entail and why it's important/why the old program is inadequate here, because it's specifically tied to other site stuff that I didn't want to leak.

I feel like the larger overall goals of this project are sort of getting lost in the conversation here, but I can't really explain that in any detail until I know it's okay to discuss in public.
I understand the private aspect as of now, though the DC community is getting smaller every year. I think knowing the full scope has potential to gain the most interest, even more so it would help someone decide if they can contribute.
It does, and I'd love to talk about it publicly, but I have to get the OK from someone else first. It's kinda tied to some other stuff going around that's not really mine to reveal.
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by SiZiOUS » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:37 pm

I don't have the time to read every posts there, I'm responding because Chris sent me a PM about the future of Selfboot Inducer 5.

I released Selfboot Inducer 5 in 2013 ; So I'm still there ... but that a fact : Dream Inducer is really outdated... Even if the source code is available.

By the way, Selfboot Inducer 5 is open source as well.
But if you have ideas to improve it, feel free to write a line here :)
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by I.M. Weasel » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:51 am

ben15dc wrote:I really like the enthusiasm and the general idea. My old hard drive has hundreds of Dreamcast applications, tools and guides i could start work to compile them all together for a single format if or when this takes off. I read this whole thread and got excited and then you go all covert ops on me :)

ben could you make a text file list of all the files you have dc related and attach it to a post in this thread? (With exact names hopefully containing version numbers)
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by DaMadFiddler » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:37 pm

I.M. Weasel wrote:
ben15dc wrote:I really like the enthusiasm and the general idea. My old hard drive has hundreds of Dreamcast applications, tools and guides i could start work to compile them all together for a single format if or when this takes off. I read this whole thread and got excited and then you go all covert ops on me :)

ben could you make a text file list of all the files you have dc related and attach it to a post in this thread? (With exact names hopefully containing version numbers)
Seconded. Our biggest problem right now is simply a lack of the actual files; so far, nobody has stepped forward with any substantial collection of the old Dreamcast homebrew, and all the sites that used to host this stuff are either gone or broken. The vast majority of DC homebrew is currently completely unavailable.
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Re: A new DC loader, and a larger idea to revitalize the sce

Post by dark2 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:07 pm

I've seen an awful lot of the emulators and utilities, and even homebrew ports and freeware homebrew games, even obscure ones, available on piracy sites like isozone.

I also have several CDrs I burned back in 2001/2002, stuff like linux and netbsd, old versions of emulators, games made by people who left the scene in the early 2000s such as Rocket Racer, etc that I could glance through and see what I have. I feel like a good chunk of stuff is available or can be easily recovered from unofficial sources - especially the items that arguably had the most utility and relevance to current day DC fans (ie: the most compatible, fast, and complete versions of certain emulators, media players, games, and operating systems).

It's a challenge to come up with a comprehensive list, but there seems to be a ton of stuff downloadable from the homepage here? What's the big deal :grin:
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