Fightoon

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Post by MapleBuster » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:10 pm

Well those white super heroes with blonde hair are stereotypical - Nazis! Exactly what Hitler wanted for his Arian super race lol

As for Gangsta Rappers, are you saying they are or aren't stereotypical ? Gangsta rap is about empowering black people, as opposed to belittleing and segregating
them. About making great music. Unless you believe that Gangsta rappers are nasty gun toting bastards. Which would be strange cos some of the most famous Gangsta rappers in Biggie, Tupac et al were shot dead and most others bear the scars of survival.

I think the point is that the character in Fightoon has an affro hair cut, a jamaican costume and is fighting. It harks back to a stereotype of black people that was long ago denounced by most people as a ridiculous parody aimed at making white people feel superior.

By all means keep the character in though. I wasn't trying to twist anyones arm, I just felt a sense of revulsion when I saw it that I thought may possibly be felt by others.
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Post by Tyne » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:52 pm

Make the main character an emo who slits his wrists and bleeds on you, then says sorry and dies. Wicked.
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Post by DaMadFiddler » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:05 pm

MapleBuster wrote:As for Gangsta Rappers, are you saying they are or aren't stereotypical ? Gangsta rap is about empowering black people, as opposed to belittleing and segregating
them. About making great music. Unless you believe that Gangsta rappers are nasty gun toting bastards. Which would be strange cos some of the most famous Gangsta rappers in Biggie, Tupac et al were shot dead and most others bear the scars of survival.
I always wondered about that--is "gangsta rap" actually an accepted term, or is that just a dismissive phrase used by conservative white Christian talking heads? The only place I've seen it used regularly is by people like Bill O'Reilly, and we all know how culturally informed he is :P
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Post by MapleBuster » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:08 pm

I'm sure it's got something to do with music, like emo lol.
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Post by Stormwatch » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:26 pm

MapleBuster wrote:As for Gangsta Rappers, are you saying they are or aren't stereotypical? Gangsta rap is about empowering black people, as opposed to belittleing and segregating them. About making great music. Unless you believe that Gangsta rappers are nasty gun toting bastards.
"Empowering" isn't the best word to describe the pimp/criminal/hedonist image they show in their lyrics... as an example, check this parody translation.

Oh, and the bit about "making great music" is debateable too. :P
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Post by Zealous zerotype » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:35 pm

MapleBuster wrote:Well those white super heroes with blonde hair are stereotypical - Nazis! Exactly what Hitler wanted for his Arian super race lol

As for Gangsta Rappers, are you saying they are or aren't stereotypical ? Gangsta rap is about empowering black people, as opposed to belittleing and segregating
them. About making great music. Unless you believe that Gangsta rappers are nasty gun toting bastards. Which would be strange cos some of the most famous Gangsta rappers in Biggie, Tupac et al were shot dead and most others bear the scars of survival.

I think the point is that the character in Fightoon has an affro hair cut, a jamaican costume and is fighting. It harks back to a stereotype of black people that was long ago denounced by most people as a ridiculous parody aimed at making white people feel superior.

By all means keep the character in though. I wasn't trying to twist anyones arm, I just felt a sense of revulsion when I saw it that I thought may possibly be felt by others.
Gangster rap is about selling out and making $$$ who are nasty gun toting bastards. [sarcasim]I also feel way better when I see black people with afros.[/end sarcasim]

Now, on to the game. I understand it is in the early stages and think it has potential to be a really good game just depends how it plays mabye some videos will make that more apparent? I'd like to see them.
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Post by MapleBuster » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:52 pm

Stormwatch wrote:
MapleBuster wrote:As for Gangsta Rappers, are you saying they are or aren't stereotypical? Gangsta rap is about empowering black people, as opposed to belittleing and segregating them. About making great music. Unless you believe that Gangsta rappers are nasty gun toting bastards.
"Empowering" isn't the best word to describe the pimp/criminal/hedonist image they show in their lyrics... as an example, check this parody translation.

Oh, and the bit about "making great music" is debateable too. :P
:D

I guess it's like the characters in a film. Is John Travolta a hitman in a Tarantino film, a boy in a bubble, a disco dancer ? Or simply an actor.

Was Biggie a songwriter or a gangster ?

I've no idea what it takes to live out your life in a ghetto. I'm sure it's not easy.
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Post by mankrip » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:53 pm

We will do some more improvements on the game before releasing a video.
MapleBuster wrote:I think the point is that the character in Fightoon has an affro hair cut, a jamaican costume and is fighting.
A Jamaican costume? Now I'm surprised.
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Post by MapleBuster » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:56 pm

Videos of the game would be good. Is the game anywhere near completion ?

Would be cool to see the fight mechanics in motion. After all that's where the game will be won or lost.
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Post by Sweater Fish » Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:53 pm

MapleBuster wrote:I don't particularly like the characters-a bit too stereotypical and a hint of racism, though I'm sure that's not intentional.
Racial and cultural stereotypes are a *VERY* strong tradition in fighting games. Look at the Punch-Out! games, Street Fighter games or Ready 2 Rumble boxing. In fact, I think you'd have a hard time finding a fighter that *DOESN'T* use stereotypes.

There's nothing wrong with stereotypes--in video games or in general life--as long as you know they're stereotypes.


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Post by Christuserloeser » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:46 pm

MapleBuster wrote:As for Gangsta Rappers, are you saying they are or aren't stereotypical ? Gangsta rap is about empowering black people, as opposed to belittleing and segregating them. About making great music. Unless you believe that Gangsta rappers are nasty gun toting bastards. Which would be strange cos some of the most famous Gangsta rappers in Biggie, Tupac et al were shot dead and most others bear the scars of survival.
I meant that Gangsta rappers in video games would be stereotypical. Thinking of it, real rappers act stereotypical too. That's probably part of becoming a true artist. The person we see isn't really identical with the artist himself, he created a character.
DaMadFiddler wrote:I always wondered about that--is "gangsta rap" actually an accepted term, or is that just a dismissive phrase used by conservative white Christian talking heads? The only place I've seen it used regularly is by people like Bill O'Reilly, and we all know how culturally informed he is :P
Good question. I got no idea about rap at all, so I probably shouldn't be talking about it. Personally I like the concept of rap and I think I would enjoy listening to Arrested Development and Del Tha Funky Homosapien, but I got no records of them yet.

If I am not completely wrong, 'Gangsta rap' is a term that's commonly used here in Germany for at least a certain kind of rap. Whether it actually is meant as a dismissive phrase I am not sure about.
Sweater Fish wrote:There's nothing wrong with stereotypes--in video games or in general life--as long as you know they're stereotypes.
Yeah, my comment didn't aim towards banning stereotypes from video games. I just thought that it would be wrong to kick out such a cool character from Fightoon because some (white?) people complained about it.
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Post by goatdan » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:00 pm

MapleBuster wrote:I like the graphical style. It's bright and fun-looking. I don't particularly like the characters-a bit too stereotypical and a hint of racism, though I'm sure that's not intentional. They are rendered well with a cute look, it's lovely stuff in the main.
I guess I also don't understand why you thought the characters were a bit too stereotypical. There are many black people that do have afros, even bigger than the character in this game. As for the other character, the white guy looks sort of like Vanilla Ice did, back in the day.

Ultimately, the people that do things like that with their hair do so and it attracts attention. Vanilla Ice's hair. Ben Wallace's hair. These people attract attention, and their hair is part of their persona.

In my opinion, what a more perfect person to put in a cartoon, over the top fighting game. You wouldn't want the simple, boring characters. You would want the crazy Vanilla Ice or Ben Wallace inspired people.

As for the idea that because he is a black guy with an afro fighting it automatically makes him a bad stereotype, I think you're wrong. By the way, the "Jamaican" costume is a coincidence of a secondary color scheme. But seriously -- because in a fighting game, there is a black person fighting you find that to be a "ridiculous parody"?

The white guy is also there fighting. He has crazy hair. He looks wacky. In fact, while I know a number of black people who have afros, I actually don't know ONE person who looks like Vanilla Ice did back in the day. So wouldn't the real question be if the white guy should be removed as a stereotype? Should we protect people from other races from his image because we might be worried that suddenly all white people will be associated with Vanilla Ice?

I hope not.
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Post by leileilol » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:07 am

DON'T CUT THE AFRO MAN PLEASE :( he has lots of characters dont listen to these "hey hey hey! you have a different character" jerks

put in a hopping corpse too and a chainsaw killer
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Post by Skynet » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:23 am

I don't see what the big deal is personally. It's Fragger's game and he can make the characters however he wants. He's not being offensive or racist, so get over it. :roll:
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Post by az_bont » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:31 am

I hate Jim Davidson as much as the next Guardian reader, but I really can't see anything racist at all in that character.
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Post by b0b » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:35 am

stereotype characters? c'mon :roll:

it's part of all good beat'm'ups.
btw i like the main character. this afro and this coolness - it really cool. remember me of williams in "enter the dragon" (i have never seen such a cool character in a martial arts movie). and i really don't think, that i'm a racist.

you should make some female characters too. it should be so 50 to 50 (male to female). i play more with the female charcters in beat'm'ups than with male - except of street fighter and mortal kombat...



some technical questions at fragger:
how many polygons are you using per fighter (how many are you ABLE to use)? how many animation-frames? how many fighters do you want in the final version? are you going to release the cellshading-code? (i've really waited for this ^^)







sorry for my english - i don't use it really much :oops:
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Post by IiLuSiv » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:20 am

I haven't posted in a while but all I have to say is, this looks fine to me. I understand the visual style and I personally find the graphics impressive, I also realize they are going to progress further and better as they go on. I am glad to see someone putting time and effort into truly developing a new dreamcast game, I know how much work this takes and I respect all involved.

I don't think you guys (the goat guys) need to worry about the nay sayers, they are probably unemployed and won't buy anything anyways. People are going to purchase your game because it is a NEW dreamcast game, and they take pride in that in being part of the DC scene. I respect all the work you've done, and althought I probably won't be buying your game, (I don't play games anymore) I wish you all the best of luck and would love to see how far the scene has progressed because of the work you all are putting in.

This game looks to take the "indie" and "homebrew" whatever the fukk you wanna call it, to the next level, and at the end of the day that is really all that matters. If the scene last for as long as it already has, people will look back and comment on this game as a milestone for development.

This topic has really degraded into idiocy, with the talk of "racist" characters. If I were anyone involved in the game, I would just stop talking to this unskilled jackasses, develop my game, and sell it as it is. You weaken your position when you even listen to not even compromise to dipshyts.
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Post by MapleBuster » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:22 pm

Woa there tigers !

I should have realised that remark would distract the thread. I'm really sorry about that, hope you're not too mad at me. It was only a tiny fraction of my original post which was meant to be about how much I liked the game. I think the character had already been removed from the game before that post. I have a feeling he will be reinstated now !

Apologies and good luck with the game.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:01 pm

MapleBuster wrote:I should have realised that remark would distract the thread. I'm really sorry about that, hope you're not too mad at me. It was only a tiny fraction of my original post which was meant to be about how much I liked the game.
It's okay I think. It's probably a fact that video games hardly ever can be politcally correct, except maybe you're doing a Tetris or Sokoban clone.
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Post by Morphv2 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:16 pm

Is the game running in hardware? or software?
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