Sega Plans to Stop GD-ROM Production 02/2007

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Sega Plans to Stop GD-ROM Production 02/2007

Post by Mark30001 » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:35 am

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Via Dreamcast-Scene

It is nearly certain that Sega of Japan plans to discontinue production of GD-ROM media in February, 2007. This media is used almost exclusively by the Sega Dreamcast home console, and the NAOMI arcade system. By stopping production, future official games (licensed by Sega) on the Dreamcast or NAOMI will not be possible.

(The NAOMI is important, because games such as Ikaruga, Border Down, Puyo Puyo Fever, and nearly all official import DC games from 2004-2007 originated on NAOMI.)

If GD-ROM production is discontinued, this means:

* No more NAOMI arcade games
* No more NAOMI ports to Dreamcast (Recent NAOMI ports include Under Defeat and Radirgy)
* Trigger Heart Exelica (February 2007) and Karous (March 2007) will unexpectedly be the final official Dreamcast games.

This doesn't need to happen, as developers are fond of the NAOMI for its relative low cost, ease of production and accessibility, and straightforward ports to the Dreamcast home console. Warashi returned to the scroll shooting genre with Trigger Heart Exelica on NAOMI, and Milestone would likely gladly continue to produce further games following Karous on the system as well.

Sega themselves have recently presented Dynamite Deka EX running on NAOMI. If GD-ROM production continues, there is a much greater chance that we'll see a home console port of this game on DC within a year. Please speak up now, and help us to ensure the continuation of GD-ROM production.

In order to show your opposition for the ceasing of production of GD-ROM media, please click on the image below, save and print, sign and date it, and then mail it to Sega of Japan, located at the following address:

Sega of Japan
1-2-12 Haneda
Ohta-ku, Tokyo, 144-8531
Japan

Because of the urgency of this matter, we, as Dreamcast-Scene, do not have time to compile collected signatures and send them in a large package as usual. These letters will need to be sent straight to the source. If you bring the sealed and addressed envelope to your local post office, they will be able to affix the exact amount of postage.

Click image to enlarge

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Time is of the essence. Please do this as soon as you can. Thank you. - Dreamcast-Scene.com, and Dreamcast fans everywhere.
Last edited by Mark30001 on Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by APE » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:24 am

Then they can just press on CD can't they? Obviously Dreamcast games run quite happily off CD-R. Would think they could make it cheaper on CD.

New games being as costly as they are I cannot support such a decision. Thats like telling DeBeers it's ok to control the diamond market and we don't have a problem paying a stone that is as common as quartz. Naomi games I don't see a reason to discontinue, but these companies are looking at the Dreamcast like it's a way to make a quick buck. Port your arcade title over with a little effort, slap a $60 price tag and watch as the diehard fans contemplate buying a couple tanks of gas or the latest Dreamcast game.

Not like production costs are insanely high. If they didn't have much return in the arcade they sure as hell won't on the DC.
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Post by emptythought » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:42 pm

Yeah those prices are ridiculous. Something I didn't think about when I sent you that PM Mark30001. However, I'm still going to send a petition in only for the sake of the shooter fans.
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Post by deemoney » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:34 pm

Waste of time and money. Those games later released in Japan for Dreamcast were not because of petitions and doing this is doing nothing but giving the postal company a few dollars profit. Sega is going to put this right in the trash can, were it belongs.
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Post by bizzle » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:35 pm

Rocky (Elmer) copied that from me on IRC, just so you know.
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Post by Stormwatch » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:37 pm

APE wrote:Then they can just press on CD can't they? Obviously Dreamcast games run quite happily off CD-R. Would think they could make it cheaper on CD.
Dreamcast games, no problem. But that pretty much kills the NAOMI.
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Post by deemoney » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:37 pm

<Anthony> i want to state my opinion so badly in that topic
<Anthony> but i know i'll get bitched at

i did it for you

edit::

<Juan> i see no reliable sources
<Juan> i call bs
<Juan> you can paste that too Rocky
<Juan> I'M NOT BUYING IT
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Post by butters » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:39 pm

Why should Sega continue a manufacturing process that is only costing them money? From a business perspective shutting down production is the right decision. I know some of you will get your panties in a wad about this, but you'll just have to get over it.
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Post by APE » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:45 pm

Stormwatch wrote:
APE wrote:Then they can just press on CD can't they? Obviously Dreamcast games run quite happily off CD-R. Would think they could make it cheaper on CD.
Dreamcast games, no problem. But that pretty much kills the NAOMI.
Yeh, I'm all for NAOMI titles but not the quick buck the Dreamcast seems to have been made into.
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Post by butters » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:52 pm

So where is a source on this anyway? If there's no source, just rumors, it's not news. Even if it was just "an anonymous source at Sega said..." it would be better than some random speculative newspost. (c) 2007 Juan
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Post by q_006 » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:28 pm

Link is here: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/3379.cfm.
I don't know how helpful it will be to everyone but I thought I'd post it.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:43 pm

APE wrote:Naomi games I don't see a reason to discontinue, but these companies are looking at the Dreamcast like it's a way to make a quick buck. Port your arcade title over with a little effort, slap a $60 price tag and watch as the diehard fans contemplate buying a couple tanks of gas or the latest Dreamcast game.
WTF! 60$ is the price you usually pay for ANY game - whether it's Wii or 360. Just because they're arcade ports of classic shooters doesn't make them bad games. In fact any of your random sports/FPS bullshit to me wouldn't be worth 1/100 of that money.

You are not forced to buy the games, you are not forced to play the games (oh, and I highly doubt you have, not that I care to hear either), and "these companies" that in your opinion "just want to make a quick buck" (yeah right, by releasing Dreamcast games in small quantities :roll: ), well "these companies" are very small independent developer teams - just like the homebrew devvers working for GOAT Games.
APE wrote:Not like production costs are insanely high. If they didn't have much return in the arcade they sure as hell won't on the DC.
I seriously doubt you have any idea on what it takes to create a game, and if you think if a game sells bad it gotta have to be a bad game... well, you're wrong again.
q_006 wrote:Link is here: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/3379.cfm.
I don't know how helpful it will be to everyone but I thought I'd post it.
It's for DVD drives ;)

Edit: Now I see, you mean they could use the same technique to put the same amount of data on a CD to use them on DC and NAOMI ? Well, would be great, but I think that's exactly what's rumored they will stop to do in Feb...
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Post by APE » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:56 pm

Christuserloeser wrote: WTF! 60$ is the price you usually pay for ANY game - whether it's Wii or 360. Just because they're arcade ports of classic shooters doesn't make them a bad game. In fact any of your random sports/FPS bullshit to me wouldn't be worth 1/100 of that money.

You are -NOT- forced to buy the games, you are not forced to play the games (oh, and I highly doubt you have, not that I care to hear either), and "these companies" that in your opinion "just want to make a quick buck" (yeah right, by releasing Dreamcast games in small quantities :roll: ), well "these companies" are very small independent developer teams - just like in the homebrew devvers working for GOAT Games.
APE wrote:Not like production costs are insanely high. If they didn't have much return in the arcade they sure as hell won't on the DC.
I seriously doubt you have any idea on what it takes to create a game, and if you think if a game sells bad it gotta have to be a bad game... well, you're wrong again.
In the same order:

I don't pay $60 for my games. I wait until they're cheaper such as I'm getting Dead Rising for $45 next week. Difference is the DC is a dead console and Dead Rising got released in August. I never said the games were bad, I like shooters quite a bit. Ikaruga and Border Down were both quality titles, $30 quality titles.

No I'm not forced to, and they are a quick buck. The game is already made for the NAOMI platform. The main dev work is done. I'm sure there has to be some work done to get it to run in less ram and change out some functions such as DC controllers and removing the code for the coin mechanism. Of course this is over simplification but I highly doubt the dev costs are anywhere near 1/16 of the original NAOMI dev work.

I too doubt you really have any clue what it takes to dev a game. What I find incredibly interesting is that you will jump down my throat to defend the right of small dev groups to sell shooter after shooter at $60 a pop for a console that hasn't been pushed off the assembly line in at least 5 years.

Apparently my opinion is wrong the games are too costly for what they offer. So then you quote me, state your opinion all the while declaring how you don't care what it is and how it could be wrong and how I couldn't possibly know what it takes to make a port of an already developed game on a platform whose hardware is just about 1:1. If you really don't care what I think why did you even bother?

MISC:
Games that don't sell well doesn't automatically make them bad games. I personally love a lot of titles that sold horribly. Hybrid Heaven and Body Harvest for example.

Wii games cost $50.

XBox 360 games are in 1080i, 5.1 and all feature online support of some form. Their dev kits have to be licensed or what not from MS new. Dreamcast games are 480p at best, Dolby Pro Logic at best (I believe), and most don't even touch the modem. Dev kits for the DC can be found on eBay for $300 and the majority of the other tools such as gd-r duplicators for similar prices. Don't know about NAOMI kits.
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Post by deemoney » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:09 pm

ape is totally right
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Post by SinisterTengu » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:33 pm

APE is always extreme in his views on pricing (not that many people actually have to decide between getting a game OR 3 tanks of gas, they can afford both...$60 bucks doesn't even buy two tanks for me anyways). But he does have a point, $60 is WAY too much for an arcade game. Arcade games hardly ever have more than 3 hours of gameplay because they are meant to be able to beat while at an arcade. And not nearly as much development goes into arcade games either, simply because they don't last nearly as long as a console game. And again..these are arcade games, not Shenmue. Why would stuff like Ikaruga need a full gig? They should get along on a CD with 300-350MB less just fine.

And he was right about the quick buck, there is no way these companies release these for $60 besides the extra money. Arcade games aren't as profitable as they used to be, and an easy way to supplement that is to port to a console. And if you developed on NAOMI, the porting is rediculously easy, so all they need to do is front the cost of a small production run and sell the games to online retailers. There's nothing wrong with doing that either, but I think many people won't pay $60. Half that is more like it.

And finally...I'm just shocked that they have been producing these still. It seriously doesn't make sense from a business perspective for Sega, and we're talking about a company that isn't doing as well as many other developers these days. I haven't heard you guys complain that Nintendo doesn't produce NES, SNES or N64 carts any more. It just doesn't make sense.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:47 pm

APE wrote:I don't pay $60 for my games. I wait until they're cheaper such as I'm getting Dead Rising for $45 next week.
That's your good right.
APE wrote:Difference is the DC is a dead console and Dead Rising got released in August.
???
I never said the games were bad, I like shooters quite a bit. Ikaruga and Border Down were both quality titles, $30 quality titles.
If that's the money you'd spend, that's 100% fine, with a little luck you''d find them on ebay for that.
No I'm not forced to, and they are a quick buck. The game is already made for the NAOMI platform.
The main dev work is done. I'm sure there has to be some work done to get it to run in less ram and change out some functions such as DC controllers and removing the code for the coin mechanism. Of course this is over simplification but I highly doubt the dev costs are anywhere near 1/16 of the original NAOMI dev work.
1/16 ? It's more like 1/100000 I guess, but that's exactly my main problem: You are assuming they made the game for NAOMI while I assume they have both, the NAOMI and the Dreamcast in mind from the very beginning.
I too doubt you really have any clue what it takes to dev a game.
Well, at least I can imagine ^^

What I find incredibly interesting is that you will jump down my throat to defend the right of small dev groups [...]
Good point.
Apparently my opinion is wrong the games are too costly for what they offer.
I am not defending the price tag itself (nor that I would actually know what prices are common for games in the US), I am just saying that shmups are worth the money in my opinon and that's what you denied in general: 'How could someone possibly pay that much money for these poor games?' you asked. 'Poor kids, I would never pay for that garbage.' Good news: you don't have to, but you can if you like.
If you really don't care what I think why did you even bother?
Good question.
XBox 360 games are in 1080i, 5.1 ....
I don't have one and I don't think I'll buy one (which does not mean that I would think all the games would be bad, nor that Microsofts vision of gaming would be bad in general.)
Dreamcast games are 480p at best, Dolby Pro Logic at best (I believe), and most don't even touch the modem. Dev kits for the DC can be found on eBay for $300 and the majority of the other tools such as gd-r duplicators for similar prices. Don't know about NAOMI kits.
Hm, that's what I meant with "You got no idea what it takes to create a game". And that's not HD and 5.1 and dev kits. Some people even made good 2600 games ...and probably only used something like a hexeditor.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:56 pm

Stormwatch wrote:
APE wrote:Then they can just press on CD can't they? Obviously Dreamcast games run quite happily off CD-R. Would think they could make it cheaper on CD.
Dreamcast games, no problem. But that pretty much kills the NAOMI.
No, given this rumor actually turns out to be true, they could still use ROMs with the NAOMI ;)
Wikipedia wrote:The Dreamcast typically loads data from a GD-ROM during a game. NAOMI games either use only solid-state ROMs without a GD-ROM, or else load data from a GD-ROM only once at the start of a game to avoid wear and tear on the hardware. The NAOMI system is capable of storing 168 MB of data.
Might not seem to be much but since arcade games rarely feature FMV and use the Dreamcast's AICA to generate the music, the actual game rarely will exceed this amount of data.
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Post by kingbuzzo » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:34 am

i have no idea what's going on with sega, gdroms, or future development besides a couple naomi titles and the next few dc releases...

But I don't think it's really worth posting such new here mark, The only people who truly care about gdrom production (if it has been claimed by sega that dc and naomi will only officially support gdrom games from now own), and shmup fans. You'll find that most of the members here know little of the shmup market, what it will support, and simply how it's worked for years now.

moving on,

there's a very good reason border down is now fetching prices well above $100usd. It's not hugely rare as far as dc shmups go, it is simply in high demand. There were 30,000 copies of RSG and it's worth twice as much.

$60 is expensive for an arcade port released in America since casual american gamers generally don't care for the games as much as fans of the genre, or the average japanese gamer (though not as much as before). These games aren't released in America. Shmups and fighters are worth $60 new in japan, and to the fans willing to import them.

I wouldn't jump all over someone for complaining about these games that are more expensive than they think they should me. They can only judge by their surroundings. In this case, it is the American videogame market. But I will say it isn't always a good idea to be ethnocentric whether or not it is an intentional approach.

if anyone's cared to read so far, I will say that myself and christoph have so far had no role in this 'petition'. This seems to be more a collaborative effort between Segakatana and members of dcs at the moment. As simply an admin in the dcs forums I don't control the 'political' (?) acts that the members want to do since I believe they should be free to do so. I have so far had no role in this action and so I'm afraid I have no info to give on sources, grounds, or warrants. Yet, I think that all will unfold soon.
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Post by Darksaviour69 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:17 am

Someone digged the dcnews.co.uk newspost about it, and it made it to the front page. dcnews, is getting tons of hits today (3000, the last time i looked, the average is usually about 600-700)

http://digg.com/gaming_news/Sega_to_sto ... cast_alive

the "digg" is giving good exposure to the scene, i have already noticed an increase to the amount of users using the download section

i'm guessing that Max had a hand in it since it in the left column (that uneditable to normal users)
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Post by kingbuzzo » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:32 am

no the left column is completely editable by anyone.

Max hasn't been seen at dcs, or edited a page in months.

And ya the hits have been crazy. DCS went down pretty quickly under all the hits.
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