Christians get pissy over atheist buses

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Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Specially Cork » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:48 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/ja ... mpaign-asa
The advertising regulator has received more than 50 complaints that an atheist ad campaign, proclaiming "There is probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", is offensive to Christians and other religions that believe in a single God.

Stephen Green, the national director of Christian Voice, is among those who have complained to the Advertising Standards Authority, arguing that the atheist campaign broke the advertising code on the grounds of substantiation and truthfulness.

The ASA has received 57 complaints about the Atheist Bus Campaign which launched earlier this week on buses throughout England, Scotland and Wales, as well as the London underground.

The complainants claim the ad campaign is offensive to Christians and those of other monotheistic religions.

Green said: "It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules.

"There is plenty of evidence for God, from people's personal experience, to the complexity, interdependence, beauty and design of the natural world.

"But there is scant evidence on the other side, so I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate, as the ASA code puts it."

The regulator has not yet decided if the complaints warrant a formal investigation to see if the campaign has broken the advertising code.

Hanne Stinson, the chief executive of the British Humanist Association, which launched the campaign, said she "pitied the ASA if they are going to be expected to rule on the probability of god's existence. However, if they do investigate we will be very happy to respond".

The campaign uses quotes from famous public figures – such as Albert Einstein, Douglas Adams, Emily Dickinson and Katharine Hepburn – who have either endorsed atheism or expressed scepticism about the concept of God.

Writer Ariane Sherine first suggested the idea in a Guardian Comment is Free blog last June, saying an atheist bus campaign would provide a reassuring counter-message to religious slogans threatening non-Christians with hell and damnation.
Another group of religious people believing only they have the right to be offended by opposing views. Pathetic.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by hey911 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:45 am

Green said: "It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules.

"There is plenty of evidence for God, from people's personal experience, to the complexity, interdependence, beauty and design of the natural world.

"But there is scant evidence on the other side, so I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate, as the ASA code puts it."
There are arguments for and against "God", and this depends on your personal definition of God. I'd say that the default way "I" see things would be - If there isn't a reason/cause to believe something exists, then it doesn't exist.

On that note, the burden of proof would be on the theists who say something does exist, and they would have to back up their claim that "it" does indeed exist.

But.... by claiming God "probably doesn't exist", these people have shifted the burden of proof (In formal logic) to themselves. So, they have to assert that it is at least "improbable".

From a naturalistic/scientific POV the traditional concept of the Abrahamic "God" is that he/she/it is supernatural, therefor not capable of being studied, making he/she/it unfalsifiable and incapable of being proven to exist.

By the way, there is absolutely no physical evidence that would support the existence of a "God", so Green's statement is false.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Lartrak » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:00 am

In any case, saying something "probably" doesn't exist isn't really a factual claim. It's more of a judgement, a type of opinion..

I'd be curious to see the religious slogans the ads are referring to. I know what they look like here in the US, but not in Britain.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Roofus » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:04 am

I don't see why the atheists have to throw their beliefs in our faces all the time. If you don't want to believe in GOD, fine but keep it in your home and off my buses.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by hey911 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:44 pm

I don't think anyone here was throwing their "belief" system in your face. BC was just making a point that these religious advocates were being hypocritical and intolerant.

"Belief" assumes an opinion or faith, my views are based on physical evidence, logic, and sound reasoning. What I'd consider a shame is parents teaching their kids to believe in a god, which is no more of a verifiable claim than Santa Claus.

If they are so sure in their claims, than let the children decide. When they are old enough to make a reasoned decision, he/she can decide if they want to go to church, or believe in this claimed god. After all, if the claims are true then they would see God's presence in the world around them, without the parents/society telling them where to look.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Stormwatch » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:38 pm

Roofus wrote:If you don't want to believe in GOD, fine but keep it in your home and off my buses.
If believers have the right to preach that there is a God, atheists have the right to preach that there is not. :roll:
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Specially Cork » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:55 pm

The problem I have is, religions (usually Christianity) have been known to advertise in the past, and I believe there was a campaign on public transport a while ago, which this in response to. These ads have been deemed un-offensive on the basis that people have freedom of religion, which is fair enough.

Now atheism comes along with an ad campaign of its own (a rarity, and the first I have ever known of), and all the complaints start about how offensive it is to those who believe in God, without ever accepting that maybe atheists get offended by all the Christian advertising that gets thrown around.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Eviltaco64X » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:57 pm

I think that no one should be shoving their beliefs down others throats, but to say, "There probably is no God, live a happy life" is fairly insulting. There's probably dumbass Christians out there saying just as or more insulting things about Atheists, but there's no need to stoop down to their level.

I also believe that Christianity was driven out of a lot of places by Atheists, where it is now forbidden or looked down upon very negatively.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by OneThirty8 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:08 pm

Eviltaco64X wrote:I think that no one should be shoving their beliefs down others throats, but to say, "There probably is no God, live a happy life" is fairly insulting.
The message is God isn't watching over your shoulder and waiting for you to fuck up so he can punish you, so you should have no worries--carry on with your life and enjoy it wile it lasts. That is a very positive message as far as I can see.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Roofus » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:18 pm

hey911 wrote:I don't think anyone here was throwing their "belief" system in your face. BC was just making a point that these religious advocates were being hypocritical and intolerant.

"Belief" assumes an opinion or faith, my views are based on physical evidence, logic, and sound reasoning. What I'd consider a shame is parents teaching their kids to believe in a god, which is no more of a verifiable claim than Santa Claus.

If they are so sure in their claims, than let the children decide. When they are old enough to make a reasoned decision, he/she can decide if they want to go to church, or believe in this claimed god. After all, if the claims are true then they would see God's presence in the world around them, without the parents/society telling them where to look.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Ex-Cyber » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:58 pm

Eviltaco64x wrote:I also believe that Christianity was driven out of a lot of places by Atheists, where it is now forbidden or looked down upon very negatively.
I think it would be more accurate to say that Christianity was driven out of some places by Communists. The rhetoric was atheistic, but the motivation was political.

Also, "atheist" (in general use) is an improper noun, just like "monotheist" or "polytheist" or "henotheist".
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Polymira » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:43 am

Hehe, polytheist =)
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Jeeba Jabba » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:18 am

Eviltaco64X wrote:I think that no one should be shoving their beliefs down others throats, but to say, "There probably is no God, live a happy life" is fairly insulting. There's probably dumbass Christians out there saying just as or more insulting things about Atheists, but there's no need to stoop down to their level.

I also believe that Christianity was driven out of a lot of places by Atheists, where it is now forbidden or looked down upon very negatively.


And atheism has never been driven out by Christianity. Not even with inquisitions.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Maturion » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:49 am

I don't see why the atheists have to throw their beliefs in our faces all the time. If you don't want to believe in GOD, fine but keep it in your home and off my buses.
Exactly. Everyone is free to believe to believe in god. I have no problem with someone not believing in god. But atheists seem to have a problem with Christians. This is another proof of how few tolerance most atheists have and how tolerant christians are. Seriously, the fact that Christians have let that happen is a proof alone.

Richard Dawkins, one of the main supporters of this campaign has written a book called "the God delusion". Although I'd consider myself a very active Christian, I have read this book. I have to admit that some of the facts in the book are right and/or very interesting, but if I had to give a a summary of the book I'd say most of the facts in it are just nonsense. Dawkins claims that religious parenting is child abuse, that happenings like the September 11 attacks were caused by the religion and that being religious is equal to fundamentalism.

I won't go into all the details, but the only one who is fanatic and who is missing tolerance is Dawkins. But hey, nobody can ever prove if god does or does not exist, he even admitted that.

Christian countries are tolerant enough, go to Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan and start your campaign there. We have religious freedom here already.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Specially Cork » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:26 am

I have no problem with someone not believing in god. But atheists seem to have a problem with Christians. This is another proof of how few tolerance most atheists have and how tolerant christians are. Seriously, the fact that Christians have let that happen is a proof alone.
Again, this atheist campaign is in response to a Christian one that informed non-believers they would go to hell. Please don't try and tell me this is a sign of your religion's tolerance.
Dawkins claims that religious parenting is child abuse, that happenings like the September 11 attacks were caused by the religion and that being religious is equal to fundamentalism.
I'd agree with all of those. But I understand your concern. I'd hate it if there was a preachy Christian book out there full of nonsense...
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by SuperMegatron » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:11 pm

If christians wanted this stuff off their busses then they should boycott the bus.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Maturion » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:40 pm

Again, this atheist campaign is in response to a Christian one that informed non-believers they would go to hell. Please don't try and tell me this is a sign of your religion's tolerance.
Please don't tell me how tolerant atheists are.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Specially Cork » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:06 pm

Maturion wrote:
Again, this atheist campaign is in response to a Christian one that informed non-believers they would go to hell. Please don't try and tell me this is a sign of your religion's tolerance.
Please don't tell me how tolerant atheists are.
I never said atheists were tolerant. The problem here is about "causing offence" and the idea that atheists are non-religious, and therefore are immune to being offended. This is especially true in the legal sense.

The fact that under UK law at least, you can slap "There is a god!" on a bus and claim "I have the legal right to express my religion", then read someone else's "There probably is no god!" message and claim "This message offends my religious beliefs" is quite annoying. The system should at least work vice versa with atheists too, but it doesn't. Or even better, have a freedom of speech law that doesn't protect religions.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Skynet » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:10 am

Maturion wrote:
Again, this atheist campaign is in response to a Christian one that informed non-believers they would go to hell. Please don't try and tell me this is a sign of your religion's tolerance.
Please don't tell me how tolerant atheists are.
Man, I'm atheist and I'm extremely tolerant. 8-) If I want to believe in a certain way of thinking when it comes to god, or lack of, then that's my choice. Feel free to have your views, I have mine. Now let's all just get on with our lives.
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Re: Christians get pissy over atheist buses

Post by Roofus » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:18 am

Skynet wrote:
Maturion wrote:
Again, this atheist campaign is in response to a Christian one that informed non-believers they would go to hell. Please don't try and tell me this is a sign of your religion's tolerance.
Please don't tell me how tolerant atheists are.
Man, I'm atheist and I'm extremely tolerant. 8-) If I want to believe in a certain way of thinking when it comes to god, or lack of, then that's my choice. Feel free to have your views, I have mine. Now let's all just get on with our lives.
Please stop pushing your liberal, GODless, evolutionist/abortionist agenda.
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