Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

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Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by jaredfogle » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:12 pm

I have set up an extra Windows box at my house as a sort of public terminal.

My first thought was to put Linux or a BSD on it, but my roommate owns it and wants to keep it Windows.

There are actually some things I like about the operating system, I like the amount of stuff you can do right from the basic interface, though I find it slow and clunky. They seem to be doing too much with my files when I simply open a directory. When I single click a big avi, it coughs and struggles through the generation of a preview.

Whereas in Apple's operating system, a file is a file until it is paired with an appropriate application.

I feel out of control. I had to reset my comcast account, and I did it from the Windows box. I had to install software from them to access the internet. That has never happened under Mac OS; if they tried I wouldn't let them install shit I don't want. Did they install some kind of logging bullshit? I don't know.

It seems usable, but it seems like to get good use out of it I'm going to have to learn a lot of proprietary ins-and-outs. The more advanced stuff I learn under OS X can be slightly modified and applied to just about every system other than Windows. I feel like learning the ins-and-outs of windows is a one-way street. OS X has gotten me proficient with UNIX.

Is there anyone else who feels similarly about Windows? I used to hate it, but I at least respect the enormity of it. If I were a coder, I'd have a tough time picking between windows and the rest of the world for want of a large audience.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by mrandyk » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:36 pm

Youve used Mac OS for how long without jumping off a cliff? I havent used the newer versions of it but back in the 90s it seemed to be one of the most effective torturing techniques known to man.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by jaredfogle » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:50 pm

mrandyk wrote:Youve used Mac OS for how long without jumping off a cliff? I havent used the newer versions of it but back in the 90s it seemed to be one of the most effective torturing techniques known to man.
You should really try the newer operating systems.

Its got all the control and ease of access (and universality--like I said I'm *NIX proficient because of it) of UNIX systems, but you can always fall back on one of the best GUIs out there for the everyday stuff.

It really is a good operating system. Though lately I've been feeling more and more contempt for Apple (I think they're dumbing their products down. "Make a system even a fool can use and only a fool will use it.") and I do sense a migration to something Free in the near future. I don't think I'll ever use Windows but for necessity.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by DaMadFiddler » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:26 am

mrandyk wrote:Youve used Mac OS for how long without jumping off a cliff? I havent used the newer versions of it but back in the 90s it seemed to be one of the most effective torturing techniques known to man.
Okay. OS X is a completely different beast from System 8 and 9. MacOS in the 1990s was a buggy, antiquated, overstressed patchwork of features that had been stretched too thin over the years; think of it as being in the state Palm OS is in now, except a lot less stable. This is part of why I was very strongly in the Windows camp until my most recent computer.

However, OS X isn't even the same operating system. It's built on BSD, and while the GUI comes from the same school of thought as the old MacOS, it's radically different. Basing your judgement of Macs on what the operating system was ten years ago isn't going to help you, because it's not even that operating system any more.

I'm not going to get further into this discussion right now, because it's after 11 and I have work in the morning. But let me say this: I respect Windows for the flexibility it gives users in how they want their computer to work. Macs have a particular UI philosophy, and if you agree with it you love it, and if you don't you're going to be frustrated by the way Macs do things. That said, Windows is a lot clunkier and less reliable (partially as a result of this flexibility, and partially just from differences in UI design)...part of why I switched is because I was tired of feeling like regularly having to tweak my computer was an inherent part of using it. You don't even realize how much this affects you until you're free of it.

Macs are much more rigid: they are designed intricately around a particular way of doing things, so they're not for everyone. But as a result, the experience feels much more streamlined and polished...more "finished," if you will. Windows also leaves me with the sort of background impression that it's this big hacked-together conglomeration that functions because nothing happens to have gone wrong with it; OS X is very straightforward about how everything works. The GUI is consistent, the back end is BSD, the system operations are logical, and it's all very clean-cut.

I don't really know what to say other than that. Macs aren't the right choice for everyone; if you like to do a lot of obscure things, and you are into tweaking your system and you want to make your computer adapt to a particular way of doing things, Windows is a better choice. But if you don't want to deal with having to maintain your computer, and want to free yourself from the constant burden of having to get "inside the computer's head," Macs make doing most things a lot more sensible and efficient. You just have to be on board with the Apple way of doing things.

Am I making any sense?
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by Lartrak » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:37 am

Fiddler - that made a lot of sense. I think that's part of the reason Mac sometimes rubs me the wrong way, and I hadn't really realized it til now. I don't like its basic layout or the logic behind its design (on a side note, I know it is hardly required or anything, but the clear mouse where the entire thing is basically one giant button is the most hideous mouse design EVER). I haven't used it a ton, but I've had to put a good number of hours into it because of school stuff (I'm a film student, and I have to work with Final Cut Pro, etc). I don't hate it either... But somehow, it just feels wrong to me.

My main problem with Windows is I keep getting the same damn piece of Spyware (Command service). Gah. I've never successfully gotten rid of it without doing a format and reinstall.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by Covar » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:45 am

jaredfogle wrote:It really is a good operating system. Though lately I've been feeling more and more contempt for Apple (I think they're dumbing their products down. "Make a system even a fool can use and only a fool will use it.") and I do sense a migration to something Free in the near future. I don't think I'll ever use Windows but for necessity.
that's nothing new. apple's philosophy has always been KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by Ex-Cyber » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:08 am

DaMadFiddler wrote:part of why I switched is because I was tired of feeling like regularly having to tweak my computer was an inherent part of using it. You don't even realize how much this affects you until you're free of it.
As a former Gentoo user, I agree with this sentiment completely.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by |darc| » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:38 am

Ex-Cyber wrote:
DaMadFiddler wrote:part of why I switched is because I was tired of feeling like regularly having to tweak my computer was an inherent part of using it. You don't even realize how much this affects you until you're free of it.
As a former Gentoo user, I agree with this sentiment completely.
Ha, as a fellow former Gentoo user, I totally agree as well.

Sometimes I used to get bored and think "well, my computer probably needs a format by about now" and I'd reinstall Windows.

Tweaking OS X takes about a minute, I just click each panel in System Preferences and check off the boxes which have become familiar to me by now. It's a big contrast to the Vista beast, where you have to launch all sorts of separate windows from the control panel to get to the setting you want to change.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by APE » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:13 am

I always love how MacOS only gets bashed once it's a version or two behind the current. In the 90s I only recall the maq crowd thumping their bibles proclaiming how great it was.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by DaMadFiddler » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:37 am

APE wrote:I always love how MacOS only gets bashed once it's a version or two behind the current. In the 90s I only recall the maq crowd thumping their bibles proclaiming how great it was.
Really? I couldn't stand MacOS in the 90s. I had to use Macs in my high school Journalism class, and I hated it.

It was really Tiger that won me over...that, and the fact that I don't like the direction MS has taken with Vista. I was a relatively happy XP user, though.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by Stormwatch » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:44 pm

About stability, "classic" Mac OS was quite bad. But about the interface, even System 7 was better than Windows -- in fact, I think OS 8 still looks better than Windows XP.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by APE » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:47 pm

DaMadFiddler wrote:
APE wrote:I always love how MacOS only gets bashed once it's a version or two behind the current. In the 90s I only recall the maq crowd thumping their bibles proclaiming how great it was.
Really? I couldn't stand MacOS in the 90s. I had to use Macs in my high school Journalism class, and I hated it.

It was really Tiger that won me over...that, and the fact that I don't like the direction MS has taken with Vista. I was a relatively happy XP user, though.
Yeh, my elementary school was full of maqs due to Apples policies towards education in the 90s, System7 and OS8 were what we used then along with whatever the older performas and such could use. It was bible thumping for years even up through HS when OSX was first introduced. Even now in IRC I see 10.1/2/3 being bashed and I distinctly recall many a people practically fellating 10.1.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by mariobro » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:17 pm

System 7, despite its quirks, was light years ahead of Windows 3.1. When Windows 95 was released, System 7's flaws became more apparent. Shoddy memory management was the main culprit. In later years, it deteriorated to the point when it was actually painful to use it in some situations. It became a hack to make it compatible with the PowerPC RISC processors. The supposed benefits of RISC architecture never appeared, except for faster filters in Photoshop.

That's when I made the switch to Windows, mainly for budgetary reasons. I need to use Autocad, and it's been a Windows exclusive for 10 years now. I can't afford to have two good machines. I'd love to have a high-end PC and a high-end Mac, but I just can't afford it.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by mrandyk » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:35 am

That is the main reason why I hated macs so much, I would be writing a paper and have to save it every 2 sentences to make sure the entire thing didnt get deleted. The dam thing would always freeze, always. Not most of the time you used it, everytime you used it.

I dont have a mac or have even used a newer model, but one thing that would turn me away is that most software is for windows without a mac version. That is just the way I see it, I may be wrong. But all the stuff I do on my computer (Windows XP SP2) usually doesnt seem to have a Mac counterpart.

Also, one button mouse wtf?
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by DuffMan » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:44 am

mrandyk wrote:That is the main reason why I hated macs so much, I would be writing a paper and have to save it every 2 sentences to make sure the entire thing didnt get deleted. The dam thing would always freeze, always. Not most of the time you used it, everytime you used it.

I dont have a mac or have even used a newer model, but one thing that would turn me away is that most software is for windows without a mac version. That is just the way I see it, I may be wrong. But all the stuff I do on my computer (Windows XP SP2) usually doesnt seem to have a Mac counterpart.

Also, one button mouse wtf?
Anything that can be done on a PC can be done on a Mac, period. Except for the gaming portion, but they are getting better at that part. Only the good games come to mac so its not that big of a deal.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by Ex-Cyber » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:20 am

mrandyk wrote:But all the stuff I do on my computer (Windows XP SP2) usually doesnt seem to have a Mac counterpart.
What do you do that falls into this category?
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by APE » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:44 pm

Ex-Cyber wrote:
mrandyk wrote:But all the stuff I do on my computer (Windows XP SP2) usually doesnt seem to have a Mac counterpart.
What do you do that falls into this category?
Well there isn't an mIRC port and x-chat simply won't do.
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by Stormwatch » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:56 pm

There are at least 20 IRC clients for OSX, and you're saying none of them is good enough?
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by MulletMan13 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:27 pm

Ape, I'm interested in what 'features' of mIRC you are missing out on by going to any OS X irc client...

other than the easter egg where dude turns into another picture, and the annoying shareware dialog, I can't think of anything =)
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Re: Windows impressions (been on Mac OS since age 4)

Post by DuffMan » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:23 pm

Ircle, is hands down a better IRC client then mIRC.
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