Global Warming: Detailed Response to Skeptics

[DaMadFiddler]

http://environment.newscientist.com/cha ... th/dn11462

Our planet's climate is anything but simple. All kinds of factors influence it, from massive events on the Sun to the growth of microscopic creatures in the oceans, and there are subtle interactions between many of these factors.

Yet despite all the complexities, a firm and ever-growing body of evidence points to a clear picture: the world is warming, this warming is due to human activity increasing levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and if emissions continue unabated the warming will too, with increasingly serious consequences.

Yes, there are still big uncertainties in some predictions, but these swing both ways. For example, the response of clouds could slow the warming or speed it up.

With so much at stake, it is right that climate science is subjected to the most intense scrutiny. What does not help is for the real issues to be muddied by discredited arguments or wild theories.

So for those who are not sure what to believe, here is our round-up of the 26 most common climate myths and misconceptions.

There is also a guide to assessing the evidence. In the articles we've included lots of links to primary research and major reports for those who want to follow through to the original sources.

The article is very thoroughly researched, and contains a bulleted list of all the major "not real / not our fault / not a concern / this is why such-and-such" talking points. Click any one of them, and you're taken to a detailed breakdown of and response to that particular argument, complete with raw data and links to the primary research from which it was drawn.

It also clears up a lot of confusion regarding causes and effects of global warming, and is very forthright about what is and is not known.

[zman]

Hey, I did not see anything on Volcanoe Emitions...

Anyways, what are the scientists going to say when the Earth cools again and the next Ice Age appears.

Is it so bad that we enjoy this new more comfortable warmer climate. Maybe, we'll see the return of the Dinosaur. I never got this one. So, species of animals and plants die off. This sucks, so does a lot of things. We humans cannot control everything even though we try. Everything dies and does not last forever. There will be a day when humans are extinct and something else dominates this planet. What's the big deal. At least I'm not freezing my ass off in the next great ice age.

You think this is hot, wait till our sun goes super nova...

[Roofus]

Is it so bad that we enjoy this new more comfortable warmer climate.

It is if you're a polar bear. Or just like the snow. Or live in a coastal city.

Maybe, we'll see the return of the Dinosaur.

You mean like Jurassic Park? I won't spoil it for you, but that story didn't end well either.

I never got this one. So, species of animals and plants die off. This sucks, so does a lot of things.

Like trying to read your post.


Sorry, that was personal.

We humans cannot control everything even though we try. Everything dies and does not last forever.

Very deep. But I think the point the article was trying to make is that it is possible to control how much crap we pump into the air. Whether or not you believe humans caused global warming (I'm still undecided on that myself) you can at least agree that 1) it is possible to reduce how much goes into the air and 2) Putting the stuff in the air probably isn't a good thing.

There will be a day when humans are extinct and something else dominates this planet. What's the big deal.

Self-preservation

At least I'm not freezing my ass off in the next great ice age.

Bravo.

You think this is hot, wait till our sun goes super nova...

In 4 billion years?

[DaMadFiddler]

Hey, I did not see anything on Volcanoe Emitions...

It's there. Look again.

Is it so bad that we enjoy this new more comfortable warmer climate. Maybe, we'll see the return of the Dinosaur. I never got this one. So, species of animals and plants die off. This sucks, so does a lot of things. We humans cannot control everything even though we try. Everything dies and does not last forever. There will be a day when humans are extinct and something else dominates this planet. What's the big deal. At least I'm not freezing my ass off in the next great ice age

If you don't care about the survival of humans, you have a point. Otherwise, it's a very serious concern...also addressed in several of the topics.

[zman]

It's all in good fun.

Honestly, what would the three of us do to change things that a thousand Chinese won't undo the same day.

Why does America get the rap when other countries like China spit polution like there is no tomarrow. At least this country makes a solid effort after all the political bickering and kick backs to change something for the good.

I now have a crappier 10% of gasoline in the name of ethenal that does little to no good what so ever for the environment. I pay more for the Mexican's to have less tortila's. That sucks... We need more tortila's. The Mexican's are hungary and I need to keep my car running.

[FiendWithoutAface]

"We need more tortila's. The Mexican's are hungary and I need to keep my car running." zman

It's a fact. Hungary is a country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary

[BlackAura]

Is it so bad that we enjoy this new more comfortable warmer climate.

Not here we don't. Here's there's been a drought for the past six years, and the amount of rainfall we've been getting has been steadily decreasing. Our water reserves are getting towards empty.

Why does America get the rap when other countries like China spit polution like there is no tomarrow.

If you have a look at this page, you might see why. It's a list of countries ranked by carbon dioxide emissions per capita (per person). The US is 11th (at 19.8 tonnes per person per year). China is 99th (at 3.2 tonnes).

Population of the USA: 301,705,000
Population of the PRC: 1,317,000,000

Total CO2 output of the USA: 5.97 gigatonnes per year
Total CO2 output of the PRC: 4.21 gigatonnes per year

So despite having 4.4 times as many people, China puts less CO2 into the atmosphere than the USA does.

To put it another way, the USA has 1/20th of the world's population, and is responsible for 1/5th of the world's annual CO2 emissions.

[SuperMegatron]

I now have a crappier 10% of gasoline in the name of ethenal that does little to no good what so ever for the environment. I pay more for the Mexican's to have less tortila's. That sucks... We need more tortila's. The Mexican's are hungary and I need to keep my car running.

The 10% ethanol blends are cheaper and they do help the environment. The corn used for the ethanol absorbs CO2 and converts it into oxygen. Oh and the corn problems in mexico are their own doing. They limit cheap american corn imports to protect their own agricultural base.

[Ex-Cyber]

So despite having 4.4 times as many people, China puts less CO2 into the atmosphere than the USA does.

That's because CO2 emissions scale directly with economic prosperity, and vice-versa. Hence, any attempt to reduce our emissions to Chinese levels will obviously result in America becoming as poor as China.

(oddly, some people seem to take some variation on this theme very seriously)

[Roofus]

That's because CO2 emissions scale directly with economic prosperity, and vice-versa. Hence, any attempt to reduce our emissions to Chinese levels will obviously result in America becoming as poor as China.

(oddly, some people seem to take some variation on this theme very seriously)

If you look at CO2 compared to GDP,the United States falls to #39 and Switzerland becomes #1. The interesting part is that there seems to be no particular relationship between economic prosperity and CO2.

[zman]

I must confess that I live in an area where the global warming makes life just right. So for me all this stuff is crappy crap crap. Give me the old gas and give me the liberty to piss on this warm earth. I will not return to my cave just to make a more appropriate environment, for pissy complaining types that want to raise taxes or start another green initiative. Screw that. You want fix the environment. Fix the flow of money to polititions who change there minds on any given day. Fix the type of energy products we use. Do not try to force crap down my throat and call it a happy day. I'm not calling it global warming until my air conditioner is broken. So take that...

p.s. Don't pick on me for my spelling errors; (I'm a fine product of public skoolz'ssssss...) or gramer or long running scentences or just plain not making any sense.

[OneThirty8]

I must confess that I live in an area where the global warming makes life just right. So for me all this stuff is crappy crap crap. Give me the old gas and give me the liberty to piss on this warm earth. I will not return to my cave just to make a more appropriate environment, for pissy complaining types that want to raise taxes or start another green initiative. Screw that. You want fix the environment. Fix the flow of money to polititions who change there minds on any given day. Fix the type of energy products we use. Do not try to force crap down my throat and call it a happy day. I'm not calling it global warming until my air conditioner is broken. So take that...

Wow, you sound like a model citizen. Given that attitude, I'd also imagine that just because your (or Daddy's) employer might actually provide you with a decent health plan, those who are getting the shaft don't deserve better? Bravo.

p.s. Don't pick on me for my spelling errors; (I'm a fine product of public skoolz'ssssss...) or gramer or long running scentences or just plain not making any sense.

The funny thing is that I'm a product of public schools in America, and I find that it really isn't hard to learn how to communicate in such a manner that my intended audience can undertand my point without getting a headache. So I'll make a deal with you; I won't make fun of your horrible spelling and grammar if you don't expect me to read or take seriously anything you say from this point forward. Deal? Good.

[AgentGreen]

I must confess that I live in an area where the global warming makes life just right. So for me all this stuff is crappy crap crap. Give me the old gas and give me the liberty to piss on this warm earth. I will not return to my cave just to make a more appropriate environment, for pissy complaining types that want to raise taxes or start another green initiative. Screw that. You want fix the environment. Fix the flow of money to polititions who change there minds on any given day. Fix the type of energy products we use. Do not try to force crap down my throat and call it a happy day. I'm not calling it global warming until my air conditioner is broken. So take that...

Oh wow, flawless train of logic there. You totally showed us, oooh! We took it! We so did! Damn, it all makes sense now!

But for those of us who live in an area where weather patterns are increasingly erratic and everyone is too poor to seek alternatives, kindly fuck yourself and shove a rusted chainsaw chain up your ass.

p.s. Don't pick on me for my spelling errors; (I'm a fine product of public skoolz'ssssss...) or gramer or long running scentences or just plain not making any sense.

I'm a fine product of public schools as well yet I don't type by rubbing my ass on the keyboard, hoping my ass-mashings form a coherent sentence like you do.

[BlackAura]

That's because CO2 emissions scale directly with economic prosperity, and vice-versa. Hence, any attempt to reduce our emissions to Chinese levels will obviously result in America becoming as poor as China.

Only partly true. Yes, CO2 emissions tend to increase with industrialization, but that doesn't necessarily correlate with economic prosperity.

Obviously, the Chinese don't actually give a damn about how much CO2 (or other pollutants) they're putting into the atmosphere, so their efficiency (how much their level of economic prosperity costs in terms of environmental impact) is terrible. If you look at the list Roofus posted, China is way down the list, well below average. The US is 39th, but the EU is approximately 15th, with similar GDP to the US, but similar CO2 output to China. So it is possible to get the overall CO2 emission levels down without becoming as poor as China.

Obviously the EU isn't a single country, and those figures differ wildly for the EU member states. And the EU has a higher per-capita CO2 emissions than China does, of course, because it's population is that much smaller.

Hmm... Australia is 41st on that list - only marginally above average. We suck even more than you do.

[zman]

I love the comments to my creative writing.

Anyways, It looks like I made friends with my opinions and writing abilities. The point, at least for me is the environment you live in. Global warming is going to effect my area of the world way after coastal regions and southern regions of the world. So when people start acusing me of stuff and charging me money for stuff related to the environment or any other touchy feeling thing we got to take care of or else. I get a bit upset when there is little to no regard of facts, trends and real science to explain what is going on. Usually it's a lot of hot air of only part of the real story. Right now, I only see a part of the real story, but as an American, I get blamed for the whole deal.

So, that's that...

[Sir Savant]

I love the comments to my creative writing.

There was no story, or no essay format inherent in your writing, therefore I do not think it qualifies as creative writing.

Anyways, It looks like I made friends with my opinions and writing abilities.

We just want you to start making coherent arguments.

The point, at least for me is the environment you live in. Global warming is going to effect my area of the world way after coastal regions and southern regions of the world.

Lies. Just because your area of the world does not flood, if global warming does exist (I am taking a neutral approach here, so don't argue the 'if'), the logically the temperature would begin to rise in ALL parts of the world. Certain biological processes are in tune with a temperature that has only a few degrees in which it may vary, so perhaps in a few years certain plants will die.

Also, your food must invariably come from some source other than your own back yard - barring farmers who produce for themselves and the pitiful vegetable gardens some people like to tend - and thus any change in climate in those areas will effect food supplies and businesses based upon nutrition.

Just because you cannot perceive the effects around you directly, does not mean something will not affect you in some way, shape, or form.

So when people start acusing me of stuff and charging me money for stuff related to the environment or any other touchy feeling thing we got to take care of or else. I get a bit upset when there is little to no regard of facts, trends and real science to explain what is going on. Usually it's a lot of hot air of only part of the real story.

No one has accused YOU specifically, and I would imagine that you are still a student in at most High School by judging your sentence structure. And no one has asked you for any money either (if they have, then those are donations).

Tax dollars you say? Well, all research has applications in fields other than their initial fields of thought. So any money you are asked to hunk out would be sent to that instead. And besides, is lowering CO2 emissions any worse than sending undertrained and overstretched armies off to a runaway war?

And usually there are SCIENTISTS arguing this stuff, publishing mounds of material with which statisticians can make predictions. That is what science is: using facts and figures to interpolate some possible interaction. What you are trying to say is that scientists are not giving valid hypothesis and data, which is just absurd. Who would you prefer spend their lives researching such things? Rodeo clowns?

By the way, periods are not replacements for commas.

Right now, I only see a part of the real story, but as an American, I get blamed for the whole deal.

You are blamed for exactly the complacency that you showed in the pitiful excuses for paragraphs. The fact that you are ignorant of the problem does not mean you are not responsible. If your smoking caused cancer, it isn't really your fault. Just the industrial plants, right? Wrong.

Ignorance is never an excuse. Crack open an English grammar book, and learn the language in which you are forming your thoughts. Then go out and research Global Warming so that way you can counter any blames placed on you concerning the matter.

As it stands, no one has blamed you for anything. They (meaning certain environmentalists, some scientists, other countries) blame the American Government for not placing stricter regulations concerning CO2 and related emissions (not that hard to do, and in the long run, efficiency is better for business).

So, that's that...

Yes it is.

[mankrip]

You're a lot smarter than your rank indicates, Savant. Congrats .

[zman]

Coherency heh! Grammer, spelling. Blah! I'm long past those days of trying to master the English language.

I say all this because someone has to give the point that the world is not ending. Yes, plant and animals are dieing off daily and the ice is melting. The worlds' oceans are rising and blah, blah, blah. Follow the money. Yeah, there is a share of do gooders doing good work on this. Cool... There is a lot more people out there scaming off of the global warming. Polititions, car companies, oil companies, environmental companies, etc. There is a considerable handful of these groups that pander off of these doomsday scenerios What are all these people going to say when the world cools off again. Is this the next great ICE AGE? It was in the '70's that scientists thought the world was cooling and the next ice age was on the way. I'm just giving the point that no one realy knows how it's all going to end up in a few years. There is just no possible way to predict a future on global warming or cooling. In the end it's just a best guess that CO2 emissions from cars is the major culprit in heating up the environment. How come no one complains there are two many humans on the planet. We all breathe out CO2. The world's population continues to double. Does this effect global warming. There are just to many possibilities to say it's just one thing or another that is the cause.

Besides, I enjoy the comments I recieved here. Yeah, I have bad English writing and speaking skills. At least I get to here what others think out in cyber land. It's a bit of a coolness factor in that...

[DaMadFiddler]

Coherency heh! Grammer, spelling. Blah! I'm long past those days of trying to master the English language.

I say all this because someone has to give the point that the world is not ending. Yes, plant and animals are dieing off daily and the ice is melting. The worlds' oceans are rising and blah, blah, blah. Follow the money. Yeah, there is a share of do gooders doing good work on this. Cool... There is a lot more people out there scaming off of the global warming. Polititions, car companies, oil companies, environmental companies, etc. There is a considerable handful of these groups that pander off of these doomsday scenerios What are all these people going to say when the world cools off again. Is this the next great ICE AGE? It was in the '70's that scientists thought the world was cooling and the next ice age was on the way. I'm just giving the point that no one realy knows how it's all going to end up in a few years. There is just no possible way to predict a future on global warming or cooling. In the end it's just a best guess that CO2 emissions from cars is the major culprit in heating up the environment. How come no one complains there are two many humans on the planet. We all breathe out CO2. The world's population continues to double. Does this effect global warming. There are just to many possibilities to say it's just one thing or another that is the cause.

Besides, I enjoy the comments I recieved here. Yeah, I have bad English writing and speaking skills. At least I get to here what others think out in cyber land. It's a bit of a coolness factor in that...

It's quite clear that you don't really care about having a valid debate, and that you didn't even skim the article I posted. Every single point you've brought up has been addressed from a very objective viewpoint in the article, and put in context of the data we have.

When there's information right in front of you, and you continue to rattle on about your point rather than familiarizing yourself with or even acknowledging the information that has just been handed directly to you, there's no substantive debate there--just boneheadedness.

I posted the article because it's one of the more comprehensive I've seen in making sense of the many (often-confusing) aspects of global warming, and it backs up everything it says with research data and freely admits where data is insufficient. But it's clear that we've shifted away from it to arguing with someone who leaves himself intentionally ignorant...so could we either shift the conversation, or lock the topic?

[Roofus]

I'm long past those days of trying to master the English language.

That we all agree on.